The French corner : Joan or Napoleon or Louis XIV

[Kramerman]

If you have no feet, don't walk on fire

DAMN IT!!!
I always wanted to walk on fire.... damn birth defect....

[GhengisFarb™]

Originally posted by Imperial-Markus
Oh and I didn’t know that Switzerland is a protectorate of Austria thanks for updating my knowledge on this matter Kram.

What does that make Liechtenstein?

And why is French the official diplomatic language in the EU instead of German? Doesn't Germany have a more dominant financial structure and industrial base?

[Kramerman]

crap, it double posted my thread when I tried to abort. sorry- disreguard this.

[Kramerman]

Woops, I must of missed this post.

Well congratulation Kramerman to your profound knowledge in geography. Except these little mistakes sabrewolf pointed out already you're description was quite good.

Thank you mucho, geography a one point was one of my finer points. In junior High I knew the capitol of every contry in the world, excluding south-east asi and sub-sahara Africa (so many freakin countries with hard to pronounce names - almost as bad as russian cities)

I speak German (certainly), English (think it's quite good; what’s your opinion?),Italian and French.

Your English is excellent, sometimes I get pretty friggin jealous of you guys who learn English as like your 900th language and can still teach me a few pointers .

Why is England not in the EU, or are they? I always thought they were not members (I don't remeber why I think this) but maybe they are. And why is France thinking about leaving? Why doesn't Europe try to become one large country? I know all the countries have their own strong cultures and would like to keep their autonomy, but a united Europe would be an economic, industrial, technilogical, and even militray power to be reckoned with; definately joing the US in Super Power status. I also look forward to seeing Russia grow and prospur and return to their super power status under their new free market idealology, even though they haven't had the best start with it - damn corrupt buisness men raping their own country. In the US we are kinda experienceing this, and thats friggin sad. You'd think after 226 years, we'd have the capitolist (with a little-bitty bit of socialism) system down to a science, but we dont ... yet. The day will come ...

Kman

P.S. this thread has become, the "teach Kramerman about Europe" thread. I can't help my facination though.

[Fresno]

England is in the EU, but the English are very much attached to their autonomy, more than other members. That's why they don't use the euro. I believe they call it 'splendid isolation;' they are European, but many of them want to see England as another continent...

I didn't know France wants to leave... Never heard of it too. If it's true what you say, it would be a shame, since they are one of the two leading countries (together with Germany). They SHOULD be in, because without them the EU wouldn't work.

I wish the EU could act as one country. But now right wing governments come to power everywhere, it's not very likely to happen.

[Venger]

Originally posted by siredgar
For example, while I believe FDR was the greatest American leader,

(cough) (hack) Oh dear God, not FDR. He was a good leader for the US during wartime, but he was far, far from perfect, made horrible decisions about the fate of Europe, disastrous policies for the economy, attempted to stack the Supreme Court. Jeez...

it was Abraham Lincoln that kept the union together.

Greatest President in our history, just beating out George Washington, who was no slouch!

Venger

[Kramerman]

After you take into consideration that FDR was in office for almost twice as long as any other president ever was, he had alot more time to make more mistakes. However he also had more time to do more great things. I must say FDR is among the US's greatest leaders, and that is a fact. However saying any more or less of him would only be an opinion.

Kman

[joony]

That was the most well researched thread i have ever seen. Well done my people.

[Kramerman]

I don't understand what you mean?

[badman]

I associate France primarily (is that right? ) with Napoleon for he played a huge part in Europe's history even though he failed. My second choice would be Loius XIV. who is really famous (yet not so popular ).
To me, Jean D'Arc is too much of a legend and a soldier and not a leader/politician.
I also think that Charles De Gaulle did not really change the world and had such a great influence than Napoleon or even Louis XIV. who influenced many generations or at least devoted their attention of them to him.

[Kramerman]

England is in the EU, but the English are very much attached to their autonomy, more than other members. That's why they don't use the euro.

Thats right, thats why I didn'y think they were in the EU, because they don't use the Euro, but they are I see.

I didn't know France wants to leave... Never heard of it too.

Yeah, I don't know what of the French Pres election (its probably been long over), but I remeber hearing the far right guy who apposed Chirac wanted to leave the EU if he was elected, if I understood the news correctly.

[Incan_Warrior]

I chose Joan just because her story is so amazing, though I agree that she might not be the best choice. She would probably be an appropriate leader that would come from an Elite unit victory. Anyway, Firaxis needs to reduce the fat from her face - there is no way she was that chubby in real life.

[Kramerman]

she's not that chubby at all. a few pages ago we were discussing how cute she was...

[Alanus]

Originally posted by Kramerman
Yeah, I don't know what of the French Pres election (its probably been long over), but I remeber hearing the far right guy who apposed Chirac wanted to leave the EU if he was elected, if I understood the news correctly.

The president election in France is over (May), as is the Parliament's one (June). Chirac wons by 80% against Le Pen (the far right guy), whose ideas and program were nonsense (like France leaving the UE). We should not have had such a second turn, but the "normal" opponent to Chirac, socialist Jospin, was beaten by Le Pen during the primary. But fortunately, Le Pen had no chance against Chirac Shame on France.

[Kramerman]

Ah thank you Alanus, I continue to learn more everyday . I don't know much about Chirac, but I'm glad the Le Pen guy lost by such a large margin for the EU's sake. Viva Le France!

Kman

[Richelieu]

Either me or Colbert. The others are only Front men.

[Jon Shafer]

Have I already posted in this thread? Wow, I surprise myself. I've voted at least.

Nappy all the way. No one can compare to him. When I think of France's golden age, the first guy I think of is Napoleon.

[GhengisFarb™]

Originally posted by Trip
Have I already posted in this thread? Wow, I surprise myself. I've voted at least.

Nappy all the way. No one can compare to him. When I think of France's golden age, the first guy I think of is Napoleon.

When I think of French, the first thing I think of is French Vanilla.

When I think of Napoleon, the first thing I think of is ice cream. Or is that Neapolitan? What the heck does Neapolitan mean?

Oh well, maybe its just lunchtime.........

[Wulfram]

I rank them like this

Louis XIV - At least he's French. Henry IV was probably a better King though.
Napoleon - Corsican, but at least he ruled the French, and was a highly successful megalomaniac.
De Gaulle - Too modern for my tastes
Joan - Never ruled her country
Charles - A German who wanted to replace a Greek as Roman Emperor.
Clovis - Some German guy

[Alanus]

Originally posted by Wulfram
I rank them like this ...

Thanks for your attention in reviving this thread. Note that from a French perspective, Clovis and Charlemagne are definitely part of the French history that we have been taught at school. Have we been cheated by the Germans ?

[Alanus]

Originally posted by Wulfram
I rank them like this ...

Thanks for your attention in reviving this thread. Note that from a French perspective, Clovis and Charlemagne are definitely part of the French history that we have been taught at school. Have we been cheated by the Germans ?

[Solomyr]

so i haven't read this whole thread, but i sure hope someone has pointed out that they probably chose Joan for POLITICAL reasons. how many significant women leaders have there been throughout histroy? nto so many. i think they were streching to get some females and some color (celopatra) in the leader heads. oh well. IMHO, Napoleon should be the french leader, but y'all have to admitt, Joan is far easier on the eyes.

[TacticalGrace]

Originally posted by Kramerman


Noooooooo!! its true. Its considered something like "indecent exposure" through most of the year and in most places.

Land of the free? apart from some really repressive laws, perhaps.

Even in the supposed uptight English sunbathe topless. Sometimes women sunbathe topless in the city parks.

[ThaddeusAlexander]

I gotta go with Joan of Arc. Napoleon didn't do much more than step on people's back to gain power and then run around and attack Europe. I think thats been done before.

I think firaxis made a good choice because Joan of Arc reversed the tides of a war that could have potentially made France a vassal state for England.

Although maybe if she didn't exist and France did lose the war against England then Napoleon might have started an uprising and driven out the english rule Whats great about civ3 is WE CAN DO THAT

Anyway, I voted Joan of Arc. I did enough studying of French history at university and she's no worse than any other choice, and far better than Napoleon whom seems to be #1 on this poll. Besides, I think Firaxis needed another female, but thats a whole other discussion.

Cheers
~Thadalex

PS I think french should be industrious and religious, especially if Joan of Arc is in command

[Shadowstrife911]

Louis XIV because he brought about the "Enlightenment" era in France, he supported French culture and knowingly showed it off at Versailles to impress foreign dignitaries. He also took lots of power away from the elitist nobility who could often be a great source of conflict for a nation, by turning nobles against one another instead of against the King - he secured his position. He also restructured the army, soldiers had to swear fealty directly to the Crown instead of to their Lord. Supposedly during his reign, the French army transformed from a ragtag milita of 50,000 to a professional army of 250,000 + (according to this history textbook i have... numbers might be inaccurate.)


Although Napoleon would also be a good choice...

[gsmoove23]

C'mon, no Charlemagne? and call them Franks. If not at least Louis. The guy was a leader and he did it with style in true french tradition.

[gsmoove23]

Besides, Napolean was an anomaly. How could you not go for somebody called the Sun King

[Vercingetorix]

Considering that the Franks were actually Germanic tribes, I wouldn't consider them to be very "French." Of course, by my handle over here, you can guess who I voted for, even though Caesar opened a can of whoopass on the Gauls (although defeating 250,000? C'mon Caesar, that's a bit much...)

Anyways, Joan of Arc does provide the French with a sort of nationalist-identity foundation, and while Charlemagne does the same thing, he was actually Germanic.

Sooooo...what's my point?

Oh hell, make it Napoleon. No French ruler had more of an international or (arguably) domestic impact than he did.

[Athitis]

Sure, I think Nappy is a good idea, but after watching the movie "Joan of Ark: The messenger" I strongly support Joan! Just give her better eyes and more hair!

Or even better, gives us up to three leader portrairs to choose from.

[Jon Shafer]

Originally posted by GhengisFarb
When I think of French, the first thing I think of is French Vanilla.

When I think of Napoleon, the first thing I think of is ice cream. Or is that Neapolitan? What the heck does Neapolitan mean?

Oh well, maybe its just lunchtime.........

Neapolitan refers to something from Naples, which is in Italy. Lest, Neapolitan Pizza, and also crappy Neapolitan soldiers during the Napoleonic Wars. You see, it all comes together.

As far as Napoleon stepping on people's backs to gain power, do you have anything to back this up? Napoleon was in his early 20s when promoted to a brigadier general in northern Italy for helping to save the Revolution from Austrian troops. From there his brilliant successes brought him great fame, which brought him political success as well (and we know how rare that is ). While Nappy didn't exactly follow the standard mayor-governor-senator-president path to the top, his rise to emperor was all of his own doing. He represents France in its greatest period of all time. Never before and never since the early 19th century has France dominated the world like it did.