One leader per elite unit!

alexman · May 15, 2002, 15:50

Did you know that you can get only one leader per elite unit?
Mike B. (Firaxis) confirmed this over at CivFanatics

Gramphos · May 15, 2002, 15:55

Interesting, I had that theory, but didn't have it confirmed before.

asleepathewheel · May 15, 2002, 16:08

Well, that will certainly change some of strategy.

thanks for the information.

Harovan · May 15, 2002, 16:28

So far about the reports of having seen 2 leaders at once. I've heard a couple of them and was ready to believe it, although I haven't seen it yet myself.

ALPHA WOLF 64 · May 15, 2002, 18:14

thanks for the info. This is incredibly valuable for my playing style.

Theseus · May 15, 2002, 18:22

That SUCKS!!!!

I just read the whole CivFanatics thread... I cannot believe that it took this long for this info to come out.

What a pain this will be until a patch comes is released that identifies flagged elites.

At least Mike B. stepped up.

KrazyHorse · May 15, 2002, 20:16

This changes how I fight wars...

asleepathewheel · May 15, 2002, 20:27

Quote:

Originally posted by Theseus
That SUCKS!!!!

I just read the whole CivFanatics thread... I cannot believe that it took this long for this info to come out.

What a pain this will be until a patch comes is released that identifies flagged elites.

At least Mike B. stepped up.

yeah, have to pay close attention to that gl producing unit, then put him in an army or send to the front, rather than the mopping up of weakend units.

Skanky Burns · May 15, 2002, 20:39

Its good to (finally) know this.

KrazyHorse · May 15, 2002, 20:44

I sort of suspected it all along, but I wasn't sure...

nato · May 15, 2002, 21:17

Quote:

Each unit can produce at most one great leader. Each time a unit is upgraded, however, it can once again produce a great leader. You can have more than one great leader per game but only one at a time.

Only one at a time! So saving a leader for a wonder means you can't get a new one until you rush the wonder...

Thanks for bringing this up alexman, this indeed is valuable info.

Skanky Burns · May 16, 2002, 00:54

I think most of us suspected that, but there were reports that people had multiple leaders at the same time, but no proof. Obviously false.

asleepathewheel · May 16, 2002, 01:23

Quote:

Originally posted by Skanky Burns
I think most of us suspected that, but there were reports that people had multiple leaders at the same time, but no proof. Obviously false.

Thankfully this has been finally put to rest.

I was just suprised that each unit could only trigger one leader. I wonder what the reasoning was for that. Wish there was a way to keep track of the units that generated them.

H Tower · May 16, 2002, 01:46

Quote:

Originally posted by asleepathewheel
Wish there was a way to keep track of the units that generated them.

you could always keep notepad open to record information like that. you could also write down the story of your game at the same time

asleepathewheel · May 16, 2002, 01:53

Quote:

Originally posted by H Tower

you could always keep notepad open to record information like that. you could also write down the story of your game at the same time

Sounds like a great idea. Hmm. If that is my other choice, I will leave that unit behind as a garrison. That way, I will know which one it is, as the rest of the elites are at the front. The problem is, when you have a stack attacking with multiple elite units. How do you know which one is the gl-producer?

My games are really too boring to be made into stories, anyway

H Tower · May 16, 2002, 01:57

Quote:

Originally posted by asleepathewheel

The problem is, when you have a stack attacking with multiple elite units. How do you know which one is the gl-producer?

I don't know since i'm just coming back to the game for a second try at it after saying it sucked

edit: check out my thread about coming back to civ3

edit:edit: you already did

Grumbold · May 16, 2002, 04:52

I could swear blind that I had 3 leaders at one point playing one of the competition games. I'm not going to accuse Mike B. of not knowing his own game without hard proof though. I don't think I kept my save game directory when I uninstalled Civ but if I remember tonight I will fire up my old machine and take a peek.

nato · May 16, 2002, 07:00

Grumbold - Maybe it was possible to have more than one leader at a time in previous patches?

Grumbold · May 16, 2002, 08:17

There's nothing in that CivFanatics thread that says 'after 1.17' or anything. The Babylonian game I'm thinking of was one of the early Apolyton comps so that might be it.

I-iZ-1337 · May 16, 2002, 08:32

I will putz thiz in my stratz d00d. It willz makez me even more 1337 than I amz.

geoffbland · May 16, 2002, 11:53

Huh? They are saying that an elite unit can only produce a Leader once. That does NOT mean you can't have more than one leader. I certainly have had a game where I've had GLs to spare and nothing to use them on.

Ironwood · May 16, 2002, 13:56

Quote:

Originally posted by geoffbland
Huh? They are saying that an elite unit can only produce a Leader once. That does NOT mean you can't have more than one leader. I certainly have had a game where I've had GLs to spare and nothing to use them on.

No, they say you can only possess one great leader at the same time. If there's a GL sitting on his ass, there will be no more GLs produced in battle. If you make him into an army, he is no longer a GL, but now, you have an army. You can have as many armies running around as you want, but only one GL.

What surprises the hell out of me is the fact that each elite unit can only produce one army, ever. I suspect people are reading this wrong, since it seems a bit too much for the game to keep track of which elite units have produced leaders (especially when there's no graphical information available to the player). There must be some mistake.

nato · May 16, 2002, 14:11

Quote:

What surprises the hell out of me is the fact that each elite unit can only produce one army, ever.

In his quote he said that if the unit was upgraded, it could again generate a leader, so its not quite just once ever.

Ironwood · May 16, 2002, 14:18

Quote:

Originally posted by nato

In his quote he said that if the unit was upgraded, it could again generate a leader, so its not quite just once ever.

Yes, that makes sense, if they're keeping track of it on a per-unit basis (and by that quote, it appears they are). When upgraded, they're demoted to veteran, so the way I think it would work is this: there are actually five ranks for units: green, regular, veteran, elite, elite + leader.

nato · May 16, 2002, 14:28

Clever thinking Ironwood ... that would be an nice way to keep track of it.

MiloMilo · May 16, 2002, 15:49

That's a very smart way to think about it, Ironwood. If you look at the military advisor screen, you'll see a box that says "available leader." Usually it's empty, but when you have a leader it will show your GL in it. when you use the leader for an army or to rush something, the box becomes empty again. Now there is not enough room in the box for more than one leader, so I pretty much always knew you could only have one at a time (Geoffbland, I suspect you hed multiple empty armies at once).

Anyway, it's good to know that each elite can only make one... it won't change my strategy much though, I haven't gotten a leader since installing 1.21f.

What I have done more is fight off opposing armies with single units, which is a real pain.

Arrian · May 16, 2002, 16:06

This is really important info... and like Theseus I can't believe it took this long for it to come out. Wow.

Ok, I want some sort of designation for those elites that have generated GLs. Otherwise, I may use them in a potential GL-producing situation and get jipped out of my leader. I can instead use those elites as nutcrackers, as opposed to finishers... or just pull them back entirely from the front. But as it is now, I will have no choice but to pull them back. If they stay on the front lines, they will get jumbled in with other elites.

I like the possibilities for increasing the # of GLs I generate, though.

Has anyone proved conclusively whether or not an elite unit in an army can produce a leader?

-Arrian

Theseus · May 16, 2002, 17:14

Arrian, I've been asking that forever, and no one know.

My understanding of Ironwood's designations:

Elite: Has not generated a GL.
Elite+leader: Has generated a GL.

As to the distinction between elites and elite+leaders on the battlefield, I think that going forward I will divide attacking forces into two stacks... one for all the elites, and one for all the elite+leaders.

For slowmover attacks, I will distinguish the stacks by adding a defensive unit to the elite stack, and let the elite+leaders fend for themselves. This is pretty easy, and cheap.

For fastmover attacks? Anybody?

Also: Can we say elite+leader Cav Armies? I suggest that as the numbers of GLs created generally increase (which I predict will happen), there are going to be a lot more Armies floating around... fill'em up with Cavs and then add 1 elite+leader Tank or MA.

Arrian · May 16, 2002, 17:26

Dividing into stacks is an option I suppose. Then again... I'm tempted to say that, outside of putting them in armies (my opinion is that armies don't spawn GLs), I may not want to use elite+leader units at all. Simply because they cannot be promoted further. I'd rather use my vets so I can get them to elite, or my elites so I can get a leader.

-Arrian

nato · May 16, 2002, 17:52

Great idea Arrian! You're right, knowing this, veterans are now preferable to elite+leaders. I guess its garrison duty in some quiet city for the finest of the army ... ironic ...