Would you like a fifth era? - Page 2

grapedog · May 20, 2002, 18:06

Different Civ's following different paths would allow for more tech trading. Perhaps you can only trade for a tech in one age once you naturally gain a tech in the other. It would prevent the whole spearmen to tanks tech dump. I mean if you gave spearmen tank schematics they would be using them for their ceremonial fires not for building. I like that idea, different Civ's tech away from each other making Civ's more distinct in their late game...

edit/add: to add to that, i would like to see more middle or early game ages, not future eras.

How tough would it be to make both humans and the AI take longer to reach certain tech's while adding others in the meantime? You could also stretch the span each turn takes to stretch out the fun times. Many times I find the beginning game with warriors and spearmen more enjoyable than the end game with planes and marines and nukes.

Destroyer · May 20, 2002, 20:29

Why does it have to be the far flung future era???

There are pleanty of modern age, and slightly futuristic technologies that are not touched upon.

Having 4 power stations that all do the same thing, and that are less different that in civ 2 is a bit lazy, for example.

What about the following (no dodgy star trek ideas):

Media (newspapapers) - decrease in corruption
Television -
Internet - increase in research
Hollywood wonder (increases culture in all cities
superconductor - reduces waste
orbital space station construction
Moon Base (perhaps a new map)
spy satelites
EMP weapons

aneeshm · May 21, 2002, 06:30

Colonial and Prehistoric as non-optional , future era as optional .

Jethro83 · May 21, 2002, 06:41

I support the idea of a future era. But only a near future era. Not distant.

I'm talking about an era where you can build units like mechs and cybers, and research techs like Robotic Warfare or something.

Adagio · May 21, 2002, 08:17

Quote:

Originally posted by Destroyer
What about the following (no dodgy star trek ideas):

Media (newspapapers) - decrease in corruption
Television -
Internet - increase in research
Hollywood wonder (increases culture in all cities
superconductor - reduces waste
orbital space station construction
Moon Base (perhaps a new map)
spy satelites
EMP weapons

I like those ideas, though I don't know what EMP is!?!

And btw, I'm talking about only near future, to far into the future would kill the game!

Jethro83 · May 21, 2002, 08:22

Quote:

Originally posted by ADG

I like those ideas, though I don't know what EMP is!?!

Electro-magnetic pulse.

Fries the circuitry of electronic equipment within its radius.

Adagio · May 21, 2002, 08:48

Quote:

Originally posted by LordAzreal
Electro-magnetic pulse.

Fries the circuitry of electronic equipment within its radius.

Cool

Adm.Naismith · May 21, 2002, 10:18

Five eras and a different tech tree are old hats for anyone who browse The List v.2 and old "Suggestion for Civ 3" thread. Any quick search in apolyton archive should find impressive results.

I vote to add the renaissance era, but with the purpose to push modern era a bit into current/very near future. We know plenty of tech almost available in lab (still not ready for "prime time" show) that can be used without fear to be a science fiction lover (BTW, I like good S.F., as my nickname show quite well for McMaster Bujold readers

).

The whole Civ III suffer a bit IMHO from this design decision to keep the game simple and quite short (small tech tree), with a controlled pace (forced research limit), with the ability for the AI to attack human players on their best strategy (excessive trade of research to gain science leadership or recover in silly quick number of turns).

As the great strategist Velociryx (that IMO prove his skill in SMAC arena over any doubt) pointed out, a lot of design limits forced the human player to few winning strategy (if not only one) and that killed the game (or at least put down it from "greatest" to "good").
Any effort that will bring back some more player tactics, as different research paths, should be considered as an interesting opportunity.

Master Marcus · May 21, 2002, 11:30

A more complete civ experience through the timeline, like Empire Earth ( i.e. adding prehistoric and furure era ) should be fine - and also extending the end of the Middle Ages or adding the popular Renaissance suggestion - so I would tend to vote for everything feasible. However I would like an emphasis for ancient/medieval/renaissance: actually we don't have much time to use medieval units before Industrial. I've upgraded through the editor the costs of late medieval techs and made 3 other prerequisites before Industrial transition - more enjoyable since then, and still challenging.

The future era should be short, like nanotechs and advanced recycling, thus adding no more than 50 turns ( to 2100 ).

ahenobarb · May 21, 2002, 17:38

A non-linear tech tree is the way to go. More branches, with no climbing back. That would permit civs to become much more varied over time and present the palyer with a new strategic choice. It would also provide for cultural/anthropological differences as well.

Master Marcus · May 21, 2002, 17:57

Quote:

Originally posted by ahenobarb
A non-linear tech tree is the way to go. More branches, with no climbing back. That would permit civs to become much more varied over time and present the palyer with a new strategic choice. It would also provide for cultural/anthropological differences as well.

I agree. With that, we should'nt see the AIs sharing the very same techs all the time. It's quite boring, and sometimes frustrating to see half of your opponents sharing a newly discovered tech within a turn ( of course can be tampered through editor by AI to AI trade rate, but again...).
The existing Civ III's tech tree cannot be drastically changed into a non-linear engine, so I guess that'll have to wait for Civ IV.

Spiffor · May 21, 2002, 18:44

Personally, I'm don't want any sci-fi in my normal Civ game : I stopped playing the excellent SMAC because of its sci-fi theme which was stranger to me. I found CTP's future eras pretty lame. I always loved Civ as an history game, nothing more.

But I'm a diehard fan of the editor (Go Editor Go !), and I sure would like to see it possible in the editor. Maybe some fanmade eras would hook me with sci-fi

?

moomin · May 21, 2002, 19:23

Spiff, talking as a representative of the country of Jules Verne, you really should be ashamed of yourself.

Go Sci-Fi already!

civman2000 · May 21, 2002, 22:01

i have to agree with spiffor. The essence of civ does not include the future, and adding one in the middle is too fundamental a change to have just in an XP. THere should be editor capabilities to add ages but any additional ages that are included should be optional.

ahenobarb · May 23, 2002, 13:10

Quote:

Originally posted by Master Marcus

I agree. With that, we should'nt see the AIs sharing the very same techs all the time. It's quite boring, and sometimes frustrating to see half of your opponents sharing a newly discovered tech within a turn ( of course can be tampered through editor by AI to AI trade rate, but again...).
The existing Civ III's tech tree cannot be drastically changed into a non-linear engine, so I guess that'll have to wait for Civ IV.

If (more like when) they brush up the editor and give it full functionality, we will probably see a return of the possibility for NO/NO techs that you could add with Civ 2. If you can get that, you can branch your tech tree and keep civs from following someone elses or from trading the tech, but ... we need the real editor first.

Crossing fingers, holding breath

kring · June 8, 2002, 21:08

A fully functionally editor is due out in the new patch, sometime this month. Hopefully, it will allow most of what we want.

Switch · June 9, 2002, 00:07

I agree, not furture.
I like the prehistoric idea, but that would require Firaxis to bump up the rest of the units to make room for man with stick, which would upgrade to a clubmen (upgrades to warrior), stone throwers which upgrade to stone slingers (upgrades to archers), heavy slingshot (upgrades to catapult), etc.

Plus, I think that this age should provide a background for waht the normal game starts out with......ie, you research irrigation, mining, axe (for chopping down forests/jungles, and allows creation of/upgrade to warriors), etc.

With that, the worker would only start out being able to create roads.

This would also give greater benefits to certain civ attributes: expansionist starts out with agriculture, allowing the use of irrigation, allowing greater growth, and thus greater expansion; industrial starts with mining, allowing greater production; commercial starts with trading, allowing roads to yeild the extra commerce we so take for granted in out current games.

Plus, our loyal subjects couldn't add to our palace until we reached ancient times, the current 1st age.

AS well, the graphics for the cities should just be tents, with the metropolises including an actual building or two (which would be rarer, as irrigation must be researched).

Just a thought........

ranskaldan · June 9, 2002, 01:48

The thing is, the prehistoric peoples didn't have cities, they were spread sparsely across the landscape. For that matter, they didn't have roads, irrigation or mines either, or any form of large armies, or government beyond just one or two layers.

Frankly, I don't see how this could work.

Future techs seems to bring to us the memories of CTP... so I think that a little more detail in the current tree should be added. No new eras - just more techs and units squeezed in among the current ones.

kring · June 9, 2002, 02:00

Some of the CTP stuff is reasonable in the near future; some isn't. But the game isn't meant to be a realistic one to begin with; it is a historical simulation at best.

CTP had some wonderful concepts; I am not a fan of the graphics or some of the programming, but some good concepts. Adaptable to Civ 3, while retaining the Civ 3 flavor.

Adagio · June 9, 2002, 06:38

Quote:

Originally posted by ranskaldan
The thing is, the prehistoric peoples didn't have cities, they were spread sparsely across the landscape. For that matter, they didn't have roads, irrigation or mines either, or any form of large armies, or government beyond just one or two layers.

Frankly, I don't see how this could work.

This could maybe work, by not having everything in the game to be historically correct, but then maybe it should be called something else...Though I'm no historican, so I have no clue on what else it could be called...But I think SwitchMoOs ideas are great

ranskaldan · June 9, 2002, 12:47

Well, it could work, if we could figure out a way to make a game consisting entirely of settlers and warriors only.....

Thrawn05 · June 9, 2002, 21:39

I would like as many eras as possible... and be able to set the age limit to allow them in. Perhaps the game should end at 3050AD with Mechs and AT-ATs. Why not be able to research a tech called "Metal Gear" in the fith era?

I suggest Firaxis should leave the game as it is, but make it possible for us modders to add eras and tech trees and units and such.

Panag · June 10, 2002, 15:23

hi ,

why dont we go further with then the fifth era , there should be room to put two ones in between the eras there are now , and a fifth that would start from 2050 - .... , you should have the option to play this era or not , IE , get and end there , like it is now , or chose and play the fifth ,.....

have a nice day

Bane Star · June 11, 2002, 06:27

Quote:

Originally posted by SwitchMoO
I like the prehistoric idea.

As a great Fan of Pre 900's (starting of course at 9000BC) I love your Ideas for this. Editor allowances I'm working towards all of these ideas for my Mod.

Quote:

Plus, I think that this age should provide a background for what the normal game starts out with......ie, you research irrigation, mining, axe (for chopping down forests/jungles, and allows creation of/upgrade to warriors), etc. With that, the worker would only start out being able to create roads.

Editor allowances again.

Before it was said by

Quote:

Originally posted by ADG
Just had an idea about making the "age" system different (attached picture). Here I have tried to make one ancient age (The one everybody has), two medival ages, three industrial ages and four modern times. E.g. if you "invent" medieval times 1, you can't "invent" modern age three and four!

How about If the Tech Tree doesn't require All of the Techs to advance through the list, I had an Old Civ 2 fantasy tree that was fairly Linear until you reached the middle ages, Then It divided up into 5 Selected Areas Ocean Travel, Magic, Religion, Castles and Warfare. Each Path had about 9-11 techs that had no requirements from any other path, But I also had about 2-3 techs that required 2 different paths, these provided troops or buildings with nice advantages, but you needed to be very technologically advanced to get these before the end of the game.

Quote:

Originally posted by ranskaldan
The thing is, the prehistoric peoples didn't have cities, they were spread sparsely across the landscape. For that matter, they didn't have roads, irrigation or mines either, or any form of large armies, or government beyond just one or two layers.

Frankly, I don't see how this could work.

Going with the Idea of Camps as the Icons for Prehistoric towns, these wouldn't necessarily have to be fixed tribes, but merely a location where the food is nearby the water is fresh and setting camp until the next season is the reasoning behind the towns placement, Obviously only ancient style wonders could be built at this stage of the game, as other types of buildings would be merely tents/camp structures.

Saurus · June 12, 2002, 17:35

More eras??

No way!! There is just two eras anyway. Ancient and middle age.
+ 1 era that is halfway playable (industrial) and one era witch probably newer will be even playable - I never play trhough the modern era, and has in fact newer done so - It is no point in beeing forced to build billions of billions of units each turn (Hey! I am a peaceful builder so can't stand beeing forced to just war all the time - just becouse of lack of choise)

-S

Adagio · June 12, 2002, 18:30

Quote:

Originally posted by Saurus
(...)It is no point in beeing forced to build billions of billions of units each turn (Hey! I am a peaceful builder so can't stand beeing forced to just war all the time - just becouse of lack of choise)

Sorry, but I just don't get the point here! What has that to do with not wanting a fifth era?

Imp. Montezuma · June 12, 2002, 19:23

Definetly vote 'Yes' pro prehistoric era.

Ribannah · June 12, 2002, 19:49

Some prehistoric techs:

Foraging
Hunting
Fire
Stonecutting
Herding
Paganism
Agriculture
Mining
Roads
Herbal Lore
Weaponry
Storytelling
(Pottery)
The Canoe
(Archery)
(Ceremonial Burial)
(Bronze Working)
Irrigation
(Masonry)
The Calendar
(Horseback Riding)

Jethro83 · June 12, 2002, 19:56

Quote:

Originally posted by Saurus
More eras??

No way!! There is just two eras anyway. Ancient and middle age.
+ 1 era that is halfway playable (industrial) and one era witch probably newer will be even playable - I never play trhough the modern era, and has in fact newer done so

I agree that the modern era should be revamped, though I have little problems with the Industrial era.

But I believe that for the modern era to be revamped properly, there should be a near future (pehaps Digital Age) era after it. Then the tech tree could be redone so that it is actually building up to something outside the realms of the mere "Future Technology" crap which barely adds to your score in the long run. The reason I see the ancient, middle ages and industrial eras playable, is because you're actually working towards a next level.

Quote:

- It is no point in beeing forced to build billions of billions of units each turn (Hey! I am a peaceful builder so can't stand beeing forced to just war all the time - just becouse of lack of choise)

Please explain how this point has anything to do with arguments against a fifth era.

The way I see it, a new era actually gives more peaceful builder options for you to use. And if you're out of options and don't want to build hordes and hordes of units, just build wealth instead.

Panag · June 13, 2002, 08:11

hi ,

well , with this new editor , the current one as it is , we have so many options , like the number of units we start with , etc , ...

now , there should be an option

(this is the idea of a 9 year old (!) ) , to put in era's , and you have the choice if you want them in the game or not , ....

example , we keep the ones we have , but there are 4 extra era's , (in an expansion pack or so) , when starting a game or scenario we can chose what era's we want extra , ......

have a nice day