The USA is the only Democratic Country in the World. Discuss. - Page 2

orange · May 17, 2002, 02:22

Quote:

Originally posted by Ned
Idiot.

With well thought out and logical arguments such as this, it's hard to see things any other way!

Ned · May 17, 2002, 02:28

I too have wonder why more countries have not adopted the U.S. model. It was well thought out by very well educated men trying to perfect government. They obviously used the Roman Empire/Republic as its basic structure, but corrected some its obvious flaws. The glue that holds the whole structure together, though, is the Supreme Court. Though co-equal in theory, it is really the most powerful institution in the U.S. because it "interprets" the Constitution, the supreme law of the land.

We really are not the most "democratic" country in the world. But we are better for it.

Ned

orange · May 17, 2002, 02:33

Quote:

Originally posted by Ned
I too have wonder why more countries have not adopted the U.S. model. It was well thought out by very well educated men trying to perfect government. They obviously used the Roman Empire/Republic as its basic structure, but corrected some its obvious flaws. The glue that holds the whole structure together, though, is the Supreme Court. Though co-equal in theory, it is really the most powerful institution in the U.S. because it "interprets" the Constitution, the supreme law of the land.

Quite the opposite...it's the weakest branch IMO. The supreme court can only interpret the laws, but only Congress has the power to actually change it.

monkspider · May 17, 2002, 03:07

Sorry Orange, my sarcasm-scanner can usually detect 99% of the sarcasm or virtual-sarcasm on this board, your post was simply the one exception to narrowly slip through. Once again, my appologies.

Roland · May 17, 2002, 03:16

Hasn't this rubbish been posted ages ago ?

About party discipline - that one is mostly for the outside. If you take the UK tories, you've always had struggles between the liberal (classic liberal for the Yanks) and the nutty wing. The nuts make a huge noise sometimes though, esp. over Europe.

Ned:

"I too have wonder why more countries have not adopted the U.S. model."

Because the parliamentary model is better.

"It was well thought out by very well educated men trying to perfect government. They obviously used the Roman Empire/Republic as its basic structure..."

Ehm... I'd see much more british influence. Prey tell, what elements of the constitution of the roman republic are present, apart from name copying ?

"Though co-equal in theory, it is really the most powerful institution in the U.S."

Politically, the US supreme court is extremely weak compared to the german constitutional court or the ECJ.

Grumio · May 17, 2002, 03:31

This thread is just plain odd. Declaring the US - a republic - to be the best democracy and then saying all European governments are the same as the UK!

The UK electoral system does have a problem in that a party which wins the election will generally dictate policy for the next 5 years so I suggest we look at countries such as Germany instead.

2 words - Proportional representation. There can be stability issues - see Italy - but it fits the ideal of democracy much better than the UK or US.

btw The 'best' democracy in the world led by the man who didnt get the most votes?

VJ · May 17, 2002, 05:41

Yeah, as we all know, the US & UK are the only democratic countries in the world!
If there are any other democratic countries, their model is a copy of UK system!!!!!11111...

MarkG · May 17, 2002, 06:05

the US system: where it might be best if you came in second in the votes

aaglo · May 17, 2002, 06:08

AFAIK (so correct me if I'm wrong).
In US, you are either republican or a democrat... no other hardly exists...

It isn't democracy. It's chess.

MikeH · May 17, 2002, 06:10

I can't be bothered to read the thread but any country where the Presidency is decided by judges appointed by previous political leaders is completely undemocratic. Especially if the only reason it was close is because the President's brother has rigged the election in his own state by banning huge numbers of eligible voters from voting.

After the latest election the idea of American democracy is a total joke to everyone outside the US and most inside I guess.

MikeH · May 17, 2002, 06:11

UK isn't particularly democratic either though, we've got a monarch as head of state and our parlimentary system isn't directly representative of the %age of people voting for each party.

Stefu · May 17, 2002, 06:14

Not to speak of other charming parts of American electional system such as single-member districts allowing candidates to be elected with less than 50% of vote, electoral college system allowing candidate with less votes than the opponent to be elected, and legalized candidate bribery in guise of campaign contributions.

aaglo · May 17, 2002, 06:16

Stefu - that is the bottom line of democracy

MikeH · May 17, 2002, 06:16

Oh yes, and those things as well. What election was it recently when Dumbya said that they thought that the electoral process was flawed. I couldn't stop laughing at the irony of that. Still makes me smile.

MikeH · May 17, 2002, 06:17

And a Republic is NOT A Democracy, I thought this was a Civ site, everyone here should know that.

MarkG · May 17, 2002, 06:19

ok so the title should be "The USA is the only Republican Country in the World. Discuss."
and then noone would care to disagree

MikeH · May 17, 2002, 06:20

Kropotkin · May 17, 2002, 06:21

The entire thread-concept falls when the thread-starter Ozzyp makes generalization of the rest of the world from one single example; GB. They obviously have a political system that should not be used for generalizations about any other so called democracy.

There's also a great confusion over the definition and meaning of the word democracy here that I'd not even gonna though with a stick. The US is, as Boris pointed out, not exacly the best example of a democracy either thus also a bad example for generalizations.

This thread was stil-born!

Clear Skies · May 17, 2002, 06:21

I think what turned me off US government most is the fact that Bush can actually get less votes than Gore, plus having a major dispute over Florida, win by such a tiny margin, and yet still have something approaching absolute power. If a government in Britain were to win only a small majority of constituencies (like states, but a lot smaller

) then that goevrnment would be significantly weak, but the American presidential system is very absolutionist (is that a word?)

Ecowiz Returns · May 17, 2002, 06:35

To say a country is the only democratic country in the world would surelly require much more than just checking two countries and proclaming one is equal to all the others. The moment Ozzy said all european political systems are closer to the British than the English, without a clue about how the other systems operate, I confess I stoped reading.

I would recomend Ozzy to make further investigations regarding his claim.

If you would like, Ozzy, I could give you some pointers about the Portuguese Democracy, since you know nothing about it, and since I find the British democracy much closer to the American, than to our own. But, I would require that you don't have a apriorist perspective of the sort: if it is even more distinct from the "only democracy in the world" than there is no way it can be called "democracy".

There are many systems, and your's is far from perfect. In fact, some problems arise in the US' democratic system that are simply impossible in ours (like have the executive elected with less votes than an oposing party).

Ecowiz Returns · May 17, 2002, 06:37

Quote:

Originally posted by MarkG
ok so the title should be "The USA is the only Republican Country in the World. Discuss."
and then noone would care to disagree

I wouldn't bet on that Mark.

Tom201 · May 17, 2002, 07:18

Switzerland is the only true democracy, there ppl. can vote on issues themselves, than just vote for someone who they think might have the same opinion (or not).

Roland · May 17, 2002, 07:18

Quote:

Originally posted by SMAC Fanatic
If a government in Britain were to win only a small majority of constituencies (like states, but a lot smaller

) ...

I think the proper analogy would be: "If a government in Britain were to win only a small majority of constituencies by winning the rotten boroughs through judicial fiat.... "

Tom201 · May 17, 2002, 07:20

Besides how much % of ppl. came to the last election in the US?

Richelieu · May 17, 2002, 07:23

Quote:

Originally posted by Ned
I too have wonder why more countries have not adopted the U.S. model.
Ned

Well... because we've seen the results.

Provost Harrison · May 17, 2002, 07:44

Pathetic Ozzy. It's funny how you think that your own country is the only democratic one, yet the rest of the world laughs at you for thinking that your nation is democratic when it is a plutocracy.

Rogan Josh · May 17, 2002, 07:46

Another problem with the american electoral procedure is the manner of choosing the candadacy of one of the parties. Doesn't it strike anyone else as fishy that the current US President is the son of last-but-one US President? That isn't a democracy - it's a monarchy!

Provost Harrison · May 17, 2002, 07:50

Dare I say 'Kennedy' as well

aaglo · May 17, 2002, 07:55

This Kennedy-monarchy was already a subject in 10 000 300 threads...

Provost Harrison · May 17, 2002, 07:56

10 000 301 now