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Old May 11, 2001, 18:23   #1
tniem
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The Landscape - A Final Plea
Apparently since Firaxis has given us screen shots of the map on their website the graphics are near finished. They look nice. Certainly crisp and a lot brighter than that of SMAC. No complaints there.

But I would still just like to make a final plea that the landscape should not be flat but have the rolling hills of SMAC. I found this a fantastic addition to the game and hoped to see it in Civ III. I still look forward to charging down a hill with a horseman into Rome. Unfortunately it appears that such a wish will not be fulfilled. I know others feel the same way, please Firaxis, do not give us a flat map!
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Old May 11, 2001, 19:51   #2
ancient
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noo that was a cheasy effect keep flat.. the mountains look good dont change it
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Old May 11, 2001, 20:02   #3
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I didn't like the big rolling hills of SMAC but I think they should use some degree of it in civ3. A 3D map with just slightly oversized hills and mountains. I cant see why they haven't done this or at least a version of it. It's only a "board" game it cvertasinly wouldn't be as hard as making a 3D map on a globe (I know)

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Old May 11, 2001, 20:58   #4
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quote:

Originally posted by tniem on 05-11-2001 06:23 PM
But I would still just like to make a final plea that the landscape should not be flat but have the rolling hills of SMAC.


No thanks! Wavy SMAC-terrain is definitly not suitable for Civ-3. If anything I instead preferes to look forward to a more embossed architectual 3D-landscape look. The level-differences should be small, but clearly noticeable.

- Level 1: Deep ocean
- Level 2: shallow ocean
- Level 3: Shore, lowland (support all terrain-types)
- Level 4: plateau, highland (support all, except djungle & swamp)

Sea & river both on level 3-4, but minus 0.5 level. The water should be bluish semi-transparent so one can see any sea/river/ocean indentations.
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Old May 11, 2001, 22:11   #5
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Deep ocean should be a tad darker than aqua blue. The continental shelf (nice touch ) looks ankle-deep, while deep water looks like the deep end of an olympic pool.

The colour seems right, but the shade is just too light! You're supposed to look upon the ancient seas as sinister and foreboding. You know, full of deadly giant sea creatures and the very real possibility of the end of the earth just over the horizon!! This doesn't look dangerous in the remotest sense. I've swum in backyard pools murkier than the entire oceans in Civ3!!
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Old May 11, 2001, 22:26   #6
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quote:

Originally posted by Ralf on 05-11-2001 08:58 PM
No thanks! Wavy SMAC-terrain is definitly not suitable for Civ-3. If anything I instead preferes to look forward to a more embossed architectual 3D-landscape look. The level-differences should be small, but clearly noticeable.

- Level 1: Deep ocean
- Level 2: shallow ocean
- Level 3: Shore, lowland (support all terrain-types)
- Level 4: plateau, highland (support all, except djungle & swamp)

Sea & river both on level 3-4, but minus 0.5 level. The water should be bluish semi-transparent so one can see any sea/river/ocean indentations.


Some very nice ideas Ralf, I concur with the idea that wavy SMAC terrain does not really fit in with the way Civ III is designed. All hills and mountains are represented accurately in Civ the way they are, and long wavy hills would not be coherent with the distance that is represented by one civ tile.

I also agree with your idea of 4 different terrain levels, as it would give the game a hint of elevations without over doing it. Maybe they will take your advice seriously.

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[This message has been edited by Timeline (edited May 11, 2001).]
[This message has been edited by Timeline (edited May 12, 2001).]
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Old May 12, 2001, 08:38   #7
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One thing I DON'T like about the landscape, is the sort of green color of the sea; The sea should be dark blue, no question about it.
And also, the forests look a bit blurry.

Otherwise it looks pretty good.
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Old May 12, 2001, 08:56   #8
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i think it would be cool if the seas were different colors in different seas like lets have the mediteranean sea be light blue green and atlantic ocean be dark blue. being able to sea waves that are animate and have your city be hit by huricanes as well as other storms would be nice..
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Old May 12, 2001, 13:07   #9
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quote:

Originally posted by Ralf on 05-11-2001 08:58 PM
No thanks! Wavy SMAC-terrain is definitly not suitable for Civ-3. If anything I instead preferes to look forward to a more embossed architectual 3D-landscape look. The level-differences should be small, but clearly noticeable.

- Level 1: Deep ocean
- Level 2: shallow ocean
- Level 3: Shore, lowland (support all terrain-types)
- Level 4: plateau, highland (support all, except djungle & swamp)

Sea & river both on level 3-4, but minus 0.5 level. The water should be bluish semi-transparent so one can see any sea/river/ocean indentations.


Those are very good ideas Ralf!!! Those levels would actually make the game more interesting!!!

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Old May 12, 2001, 13:53   #10
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quote:

Originally posted by java4me on 05-12-2001 01:07 PM
Those are very good ideas Ralf!!! Those levels would actually make the game more interesting!!!


Thanks! Well, I would like to believe the same, of course. However, since Firaxis recently have annonced that they will keep the number of terrain-types unchanged compared with Civ-2, without any further additions - maybe they also have plans for a Civ-2 -> Civ-3 map-conversion tool; thus (perhaps) forcing them to keeping the standard flat map. What do I know...

On the other hand: By the look of some screenshots, some terrain-types seems to suggest "mix-and-match" approach. Forrest for example grows on several type of underlying terrain-types.
Also (I dont remember exactly) I have read somewhere, that the maps in Civ-2 WILL have some kind of protruded 3D-look. I really HOPE that they mean something more then the existing screenshots: With the exception from the mountains, the existing landmap looks very flat indeed.

[This message has been edited by Ralf (edited May 12, 2001).]
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Old May 12, 2001, 14:10   #11
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Overall the game looks great, but I'm not very impressed with the landscape tiles. The forests look terrible, like a smudge of green. The units and cities look very nice, but the coast is too much 'beach'. Like someone else suggested, hills, forests and mountains should descend right into the sea to make the continents look more realistic.

Make the landscape look like Age of Empires (not a game I like, but the graphics look great).

This may be impossible to do in practise, but it might be nice if the landscape was in between the 3D rolling hills of SMAC but the current screenshots. The may 11 screenshots look a little too flat, with mountains and hills just popping out of nowhere.

And how about a varying the landscape with plateaus?

Looks good nonetheless.
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Old May 12, 2001, 14:27   #12
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I'm confused accordig to the civ team interview in the official civIII site the terrain wasnt going to be flat at all and this is not what we have seen from the screenshots.
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Old May 12, 2001, 15:07   #13
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No, the map should stay flat. I didn't even like it in SMAC, except for landmarks. However Ralf's idea about having very slight increases/decreases to note elevation might help- those mountains do seem to be coming up out of nowhere.

BTW does this mean that they're still using the "patchwork" map generator? The screenshots seem to say so. I was kinda hoping that the maps would flow together a bit better, and not have desert here, jungle & swamp next to it, then some grassland and 1 or 2 tundra...

Firaxis, x2 check the climate model from the List!!
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Old May 12, 2001, 15:08   #14
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Can someone tell me what the green, blue, grey dots on the map are? It seems like there is one grey dot for each desert square, two green dots for the grassland squares, ... Does it mean something? If it doesn't, I think the map would look better without those dots. What do you think?

Just one last thing ... the sceenshots are maybe too yellowish? The ocean should definitely be dark blue, or at least blue.

Otherwise, I like what I've seen!
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Old May 12, 2001, 15:46   #15
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Is it me or is that small city with a warrior in it a MINOR TRIBE??
its in the bottomish left of the map with Rome in it.. or maybe its a
colony to collect remote resources.. it dosen't have any bourders i think so maybe its a minor.

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Old May 12, 2001, 16:26   #16
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quote:

Originally posted by Theben on 05-12-2001 03:07 PM
However Ralf's idea about having very slight increases/decreases to note elevation might help- those mountains do seem to be coming up out of nowhere.


Glad you pointed that out! Slight is the word! I certainly dont want anything half- to full square in height, like in SC-3000. Perhaps 1/4 of a square in height is OK (imagine with help of these Screenshots to get some idea). Too much? Too little? Also, NOT 3-10 land-layers on top of each other; SC-3000 style, either. Two land levels above ocean is more then enough, I think.

I believe that the clear 1/4 square height-difference between shallow ocean (level 2) and beach/lowlands (level 3) and is of particular importance in order to get that protruding island/continent-feel. So if nothing else - at least that must change!!

quote:

BTW does this mean that they're still using the "patchwork" map generator? The screenshots seem to say so. I was kinda hoping that the maps would flow together a bit better, and not have desert here, jungle & swamp next to it, then some grassland and 1 or 2 tundra...


Hmmm! I kind of prefered the Civ-2 map-generator - at least compared with the one in CTP. Anyway: perhaps they should add percentage-sliderbars to all world-map generating options, including presence of terrain-types, for ultimate control. Also some optional patch- or sprinkle-patterns to choose between, perhaps. If I remember it correctly; CTP had map-generating slider-bar controls: I yanked those back-and-forth but the result was unclear & unresponsive. If Civ-3 will have slider-bar controls they must see to it that they work significantly better then they did in the CTP map-generator.

[This message has been edited by Ralf (edited May 12, 2001).]
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Old May 13, 2001, 05:46   #17
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I dunno how much this matches with you all guys but:
-There should be 3 levels(3 maps)


Deep sea: supports deep ocean where subs can swim unnoticed.

Midland: supports ALL land terrain, shallow sea and top of deep sea.
Subs can swim surfaced and small Planes can land(if out of fuel)so
that a special refuelling unit can reach them(flat terrain only)

High Air: Supports sky terrain, which can be acsessed by planes/heli's
that have taken off. Planes should have 1 turn of fuel (unless
turns will be divided into days and hours )

You should be able to see through high air and through the surface of deep ocean when 1 of the modes is on.

Note: I think this is the ONLY way to ACTUALLY solve the SUB problem where you cant swim over them(and walk under aircraft.
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Old May 13, 2001, 06:27   #18
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quote:

Originally posted by Russian King on 05-13-2001 05:46 AM
Note: I think this is the ONLY way to ACTUALLY solve the SUB problem where you cant swim over them(and walk under aircraft.


Three separate maps on top of each over - switching back-and-forth between them? NO thanks!!! We had such feature in TOT - please, let it stay there. TOT was not exactly a Civ-update success by the way. Besides; have the so called "problem" descibed in above quote really ever been that much of a problem? I dont thinks so - It just complicate things and detracts from the core-gameplay, the way I see it.
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Old May 13, 2001, 15:51   #19
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I undertand your disgust with the SMAC maps, but I don't think it was due to elevation but instead to color choices. Despite this I can live without major elevation shifs. Just give us something.

I would agree with Ralf's slight shifts. All I know is that looking at the current maps I see a flat surface that is not much of an improvement over Civ I or II. I really want more to see on the screen in terms of how the world comes alive.
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Old May 13, 2001, 16:06   #20
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quote:

Originally posted by tniem on 05-13-2001 03:51 PM
I undertand your disgust with the SMAC maps, but I don't think it was due to elevation but instead to color choices.


Well, your probably right. I didnt like those dark-brown/blue SMAC-colours.

quote:

All I know is that looking at the current maps I see a flat surface that is not much of an improvement over Civ I or II. I really want more to see on the screen in terms of how the world comes alive.


Agree! I especially dont like the flat transition from ocean to land. Also some terrain-types looks reasonably OK (just about), but some just looks cheesy and tacky. It have been said before; maybe they are just temporary place-holders. Sure hope so.

[This message has been edited by Ralf (edited May 13, 2001).]
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