Largest troop movement? And a suggestion to SOREN...

ColdFever · May 19, 2002, 19:03

I am playing a Level-4-Game (Monarch) and had a peaceful coexistence with the French for 5700 years, when they suddenly invaded my territory with a troop of 107 infantry units.

I guess, that's it... anybody else ever did see an attack with more than hundred units... and survived? What has been the largest number of AI units you ever noticed moving in a troop?

--- Suggestion to Soren ---
There is a nice event in case of barbarian uprisings:

#SUMMARY_BARBARIAN_EXPLOSION_CITY
#advisor Military Surprised
We have heard reports of a massive barbarian uprising near $CITY0!

My suggestion: if there exists an embassy in another nation, it should be possible to notice a mass movement of troops, something like that:

#SUMMARY_MILITARY_EXPLOSION_CIV
#advisor Military Surprised
We have heard reports of a massive troop movements in $CIVNAME!

notyoueither · May 19, 2002, 20:59

Very good suggestion. However, I have never seen the massive stacks that some others are reporting. Of course, I've never experienced 5700 years of peace with AIs on my own continent. Or should I say they have never experienced it with me.

You might be able to salvage the situation if you have not completely neglected your own forces. You may need to use some of the cheesier exploits though. Prepare yourself for the loss of that first city and see where it goes from there.

Skanky Burns · May 19, 2002, 22:00

Leaving the AI alone that long is never a good idea - as they will build up unitl they have overwhealming forces and then try to crush you.

I survived India doing this to me as the English due to 2 reasons.
First, I had a UU lying around that I got an easy kill with, giving me a golden age in the end-game

Second, I was very near to completing the spaceship. With a golden-age, this was achieved while most of my other cities were producing armour.

That scared me though, 'peaceful' India launching their massive invasion...

alva · May 19, 2002, 22:22

i've seen it a couple of times, must say the ai was in a offensive-defensive position though, havn't seen the ai do it purely offensive.

Theseus · May 19, 2002, 23:48

I'll describe the details in another thread, but in my current game, I have recently been subject to the following invasions, all at the Infantry / Rifleman and Cav / Knights / Longbowmen levels (non-upgrades due to to lack of cash, I guess):

Greece: Over 50 units in two stacks
Germany: Over 50 units in three stacks
France: Over 160 units in 4 stacks, but they haven;t actually attacked yet.

Each was followed, of course, by dribbles, ranging from 1 to 4 units.

I can;t believe what I've gotten myself into.

[Edit: BTW, I am still 6 turns from Replaceable Parts... life sucks]

Jaybe · May 20, 2002, 00:43

For me, the largest AI stack I've seen is 60+. They were 'just passing through' to the poor Aztecs on the other side of me, without an RoP agreement with me.

It all started when I signed an MPP with them, and then the 'hot-headed' Aztecs made a pass through my borders in force. I was much bigger than they. I told them to scram, they declared war, The Chinese chimed in (their's is the huge stack), and over the years have gotten most everyone else against the Aztecs. I long since have taken all the good Aztec land and made peace with them. The Chinese stack of everything from Swordsmen to Infantry is still about 6 squares from what's left of the Aztecs.

I have now closed my border with the Chinese so they don't continue streaming across. Besides, they (and everyone else) finally got their act together and invaded by sea. Meanwhile, the Aztec communists have 8-12 1-and-2 size towns left, a couple dozen infantry and 1-4 tanks, all in hills and tundra (I have a spy in their war ministry), and basically no resources. I couldn't help them if I wanted to, trade-wise -- no harbors and no roads.

End of ramble...

JB

Jaybe · May 20, 2002, 00:49

Request to Firaxis:
If a horde of barbarians beset a town, and are victorious, let there be at least a chance that they raze it (if there isn't already). Either that, or hold it for ransom (sizeable $$). The one time that a horde successfully hit a town of mine, they took little cash, and then they poofed into thin air.

BTW, I was quite thankful. It had the fledgling Iroquois nation's only horse resource!

Thank you

JB

Zylka · May 20, 2002, 00:59

I think that's an idea

Zylka · May 20, 2002, 01:04

actually I'd say more than 60

asleepathewheel · May 20, 2002, 02:00

Quote:

Originally posted by Jaybe
Request to Firaxis:
If a horde of barbarians beset a town, and are victorious, let there be at least a chance that they raze it (if there isn't already). Either that, or hold it for ransom (sizeable $$). The one time that a horde successfully hit a town of mine, they took little cash, and then they poofed into thin air.

I agree. I've been hit by so many barbs that after a while, they weren't doing any damage, just sacking the same size one city over and over. What's the point. Either capture or raze the city or just move to another target.

star mouse · May 20, 2002, 03:20

This happened to me yesterday.

I was minding my own business, playing a peaceful game of build-everything-in-all-my-cities when 91 French units (mostly Riflemen and Infantry, with a few Musketeers) showed up on my borders, in a part of my empire that I had taken from the recently-killed Chinese, who had in their turn taken from the also-dead Germans (neither of them were killed off by me, BTW). The French had a long-standing ROP agreement with me and weren't at war with anyone. Fearing an imminent invasion, I drafted a few Infantry and formed a line across their path to block access to my rail system. Then I cancelled the ROP with the French. Deprived of access to my extensive rail network, the troops left my empire, and I haven't seen them since. I wonder where they went.

In the meantime, I applied new technology, and started building lots of tanks and some extra Infantry. I had amassed about 60 or 70 tanks over about 5-10 turns when the Zulu got too tempted by a few workers I had working on the border and declared war to kill the workers off. Gee, poor Zulu, I almost felt sorry for them, declaring war on me when I was so able to kill them off. Over the course of a single turn that took me over an hour to play, I captured half of their cities with my new tank armies, fortified each with three Infantry, captured many Zulu workers, used the captured workers to build new railways to aid the offensive, and upgraded about half of my 200 Infantry to Mech Infantry.

Ah, 1796. That year will go down in history as a glorious year for the Japanese Empire (and the longest turn I have ever played in Civ3).

As an aside, I think a good way to pick a fight with an AI is to leave a lot of offensive troops sitting on their border and wait for them to attack you.

Panag · May 20, 2002, 07:34

Quote:

Originally posted by ColdFever
I am playing a Level-4-Game (Monarch) and had a peaceful coexistence with the French for 5700 years, when they suddenly invaded my territory with a troop of 107 infantry units.

I guess, that's it... anybody else ever did see an attack with more than hundred units... and survived? What has been the largest number of AI units you ever noticed moving in a troop?

--- Suggestion to Soren ---
There is a nice event in case of barbarian uprisings:

#SUMMARY_BARBARIAN_EXPLOSION_CITY
#advisor Military Surprised
We have heard reports of a massive barbarian uprising near $CITY0!

My suggestion: if there exists an embassy in another nation, it should be possible to notice a mass movement of troops, something like that:

#SUMMARY_MILITARY_EXPLOSION_CIV
#advisor Military Surprised
We have heard reports of a massive troop movements in $CIVNAME!

hi ,

would this not be a job for the intel agency , ........?

have a nice day

Panag · May 20, 2002, 07:36

Quote:

Originally posted by Jaybe
For me, the largest AI stack I've seen is 60+. They were 'just passing through' to the poor Aztecs on the other side of me, without an RoP agreement with me.

It all started when I signed an MPP with them, and then the 'hot-headed' Aztecs made a pass through my borders in force. I was much bigger than they. I told them to scram, they declared war, The Chinese chimed in (their's is the huge stack), and over the years have gotten most everyone else against the Aztecs. I long since have taken all the good Aztec land and made peace with them. The Chinese stack of everything from Swordsmen to Infantry is still about 6 squares from what's left of the Aztecs.

I have now closed my border with the Chinese so they don't continue streaming across. Besides, they (and everyone else) finally got their act together and invaded by sea. Meanwhile, the Aztec communists have 8-12 1-and-2 size towns left, a couple dozen infantry and 1-4 tanks, all in hills and tundra (I have a spy in their war ministry), and basically no resources. I couldn't help them if I wanted to, trade-wise -- no harbors and no roads.

End of ramble...

JB

hi ,

got some nuke's , ...........

or some money to spare , ........?

have a nice day

Jaybe · May 20, 2002, 11:08

Quote:

Originally posted by panag
got some nuke's , ...........

or some money to spare , ........?

panag,
It's just approaching time to be able to build Tactical Nukes, but no-one has built 'the bomb' yet. If it was available, I THINK the Chinese are my only obstacle to a cultural win.

... or were you referencing something else?

Have a fulfilling day,

JB

Panag · May 20, 2002, 11:18

Quote:

Originally posted by Jaybe

panag,
It's just approaching time to be able to build Tactical Nukes, but no-one has built 'the bomb' yet. If it was available, I THINK the Chinese are my only obstacle to a cultural win.

... or were you referencing something else?

Have a fulfilling day,

JB

hi ,

hmmm , money , .......so they can buy units , close the border with them , so their enemy cant move true , ..........give them a city with everything in it , when they are down to a couple city's , make sure no one can get at that city , ..................

allas , you could also start a war with the foreign troops that "thread" on you , .........;

have a nice day

Solver · May 20, 2002, 12:27

How do you count the number of troops in a stack? I just don't want to count them all manually.

However, I've seen about 100 units cross my border. Nothing pleasant.

ALPHA WOLF 64 · May 20, 2002, 12:40

I seem to see lots of large indian invasions. The largest single stack was 72 war elephants followed by about another 60ish in smaller stacks. It does seem like the indians are passive til they get a huge stack then its off to war they go.

Panag · May 20, 2002, 12:50

Quote:

Originally posted by Jaybe

panag,
It's just approaching time to be able to build Tactical Nukes, but no-one has built 'the bomb' yet. If it was available, I THINK the Chinese are my only obstacle to a cultural win.

... or were you referencing something else?

Have a fulfilling day,

JB

hi ,

okay , no nuke's yet , hmmm , and why will the chinese pass you on culture ..........?

have a great day

Jaybe · May 20, 2002, 13:51

panag,
The Chinese are the only civ which I believe have HALF the culture I have (according to F8). I have about 126,000 culture at this point.

May your today be almost as great as tomorrow!

JB

Sava · May 20, 2002, 14:34

I haven't been able to stand the game long enough to see lots of troops being moved. The largest I've seen is 10.

Panag · May 20, 2002, 17:59

Quote:

Originally posted by Jaybe
panag,
The Chinese are the only civ which I believe have HALF the culture I have (according to F8). I have about 126,000 culture at this point.

May your today be almost as great as tomorrow!

JB

hi ,

last line , if you would only know, .........

so , you are racing for cultural victory hé , .......pfffff, no fun , ....snif , snif , then the game is over to fast , ......

have a nice day

Jaybe · May 20, 2002, 19:11

panag,
NO, I never race for cultural victory, though it is an option. I don't do that 'focus on one victory condtion' thing.

Quote:

... then the game is over too fast ...

BTW, I started this (1.17) game on the third of MARCH! It's one of those Regent/Huge/16 civs/large continents games. Now at 1918, I have about 60 cities (optimal limit raised to 48, from default of 32 (again, 1.17)).

May your tomorrow be just slightly less glad than the day after!

JB

Panag · May 20, 2002, 19:18

Quote:

Originally posted by Jaybe
panag,
NO, I never race for cultural victory, though it is an option. I don't do that 'focus on one victory condtion' thing.

BTW, I started this (1.17) game on the third of MARCH! It's one of those Regent/Huge/16 civs/large continents games. Now at 1918, I have about 60 cities (optimal limit raised to 48, from default of 32 (again, 1.17)).

May your tomorrow be just slightly less glad than the day after!

JB

hi ,

you are still 1.17

have a nice day

Jaybe · May 20, 2002, 19:48

panag,
YES, 1.17. I chose not to update this game in midstride since I had messed with the optimal cities setting and I am playing it on my iMac (iLamp). 1.21 didn't come out until last month and I am playing that occasionally on my Windozer.

Panag · May 21, 2002, 08:51

Quote:

Originally posted by Jaybe
panag,
YES, 1.17. I chose not to update this game in midstride since I had messed with the optimal cities setting and I am playing it on my iMac (iLamp). 1.21 didn't come out until last month and I am playing that occasionally on my Windozer.

hi ,

that is some luck , there are less problems with OS X or 9 then with windows , .....

you should have waited for the new Emac , great stuff, ....

allas , have a nice day

Harovan · May 21, 2002, 09:13

The biggest stack I saw was a French force of over 60 footsoldiers, with 1.21f. Mostly infantries, with riflemen, musketeers, pikemen and even swordsmen mixed in. Went through my whole empire, mostly in one stack or close together. They had a RoP with me and were attacking our common enemy Russia. I was faster capturing the Russian cities with my tanks tho, so after defeating a few longbowmen (which I left them generously) they went the same way back thru my empire, without doing me any harm.

Panag · May 21, 2002, 09:47

Quote:

Originally posted by Sir Ralph
The biggest stack I saw was a French force of over 60 footsoldiers, with 1.21f. Mostly infantries, with riflemen, musketeers, pikemen and even swordsmen mixed in. Went through my whole empire, mostly in one stack or close together. They had a RoP with me and were attacking our common enemy Russia. I was faster capturing the Russian cities with my tanks tho, so after defeating a few longbowmen (which I left them generously) they went the same way back thru my empire, without doing me any harm.

hi ,

it seems that if the game gets "older" , has more turns , after a while the comp learns a bit , not the comp the "AI" , ....and changes from one or two stacks , not talking about "chokepoints" , moves in small , sometimes up to 20 (!) groups , in each group , up to 20 units ,......

patch 1.21 , the higest two levels , default level for the AI on deity

have a nice day

Adm.Naismith · May 21, 2002, 10:51

In a game (v 1.17, medium map, IIRC) I was tied to a long war against Roman, while the English gained tech and territory. I kept peace with them for long time, and I have my only border with them guarded by a town and two fortress (one over a mountain, with cannon and a rifleman). They suddendly attacked me, using they railroad to quickly ammass troops on my border in a stack of over 40 units.

I tried also a reload to understand why they attack me (changing last moves and trying to give English a small preventive gift) but without results. (at that point I was already experimenting, no way to try to win my game).

I fortified my troops a bit better and resisted to the first and second assault (the AI retreated many damaged units into nearest city, while they can still crush me if they sustained the attack on second turn, but OTOH it was a good tactic to preserve its force.

I barely survived, drafting citizen like crazy (I was in democracy), but it was a bloodbath, so I resigned.

Edited:
My fortress where useless: the enemy ignored them and I haven't gained a single opportunity fire from my fortified units. Probably I've forgotten the correct ZOC rules, but I'm pretty sure I had similar fortress in another game, with better results.

Myrddin · May 21, 2002, 15:24

Of course the AI ignored your fortresses, it prefers to attack where you are weak, not where you are strong

Inverse Icarus · May 21, 2002, 16:24

one game i decided to crush germany, so i used about 20 calvary on them and took 2 cities. i felt great.

the next turn 73 units are near one of the captured cities. i did a double take at the right click menu.

sure, there were a bunch of swordsmen / knights with the calvary, but 73 men was nothing to scoff at.