Scenarios

[Destroyer]

Will you need to buy the XP to play scenarios made with the editor in the XP, or will the rule set match the current set in Civ3??

(Basically am I going to have to pay money for the scenarios that other people are going to make)

[spy14]

I heard that the editor will be a lot more flexible and have more options than the current one, but firaxis wont produce scenarios that anyone else cant with out a bit of work..

[zulu9812]

Originally posted by Destroyer
Will you need to buy the XP to play scenarios made with the editor in the XP, or will the rule set match the current set in Civ3??

(Basically am I going to have to pay money for the scenarios that other people are going to make)

Well, if the scenario editor allows us to place things such as cities on the map, then yes you will need the XP to play these scenarios. One example would be radar towers and airfields, only available with the XP. It's a good question, I'm not sure anyone really know sthe answer. I imagine we'll get more info closer to release. Still, hold onto that question and if you get a chance to ask a staff of Firaxis, ask 'em.

[Panag]

Originally posted by Destroyer
Will you need to buy the XP to play scenarios made with the editor in the XP, or will the rule set match the current set in Civ3??

(Basically am I going to have to pay money for the scenarios that other people are going to make)

hi ,

with the current editor its almost posible to make scenario's , maybe they shall release a patch or its in PTW , the current editor has a lot more , but it's off limits for the players as for now , ....

have a nice day

[Steve Clark]

Originally posted by panag


hi ,

with the current editor its almost posible to make scenario's , maybe they shall release a patch or its in PTW , the current editor has a lot more , but it's off limits for the players as for now , ....

have a nice day

Almost possible? You cannot begin to develop a scenario with the current editor. All true scenarios require an events.txt file (in the least). Just take a look at any of the good Civ2 scenarios with their totally customized events.txt (if..then scripting), rules.txt (with a total customized tech tree), game.txt, units.gif (all customized units), and cities.gif files. Why should we expect Civ3 to be anything less?

Did they make Civ3 so closed (which I had been "complaining" about for a year now) that even a true SP scenario must be restricted to the confines of the engine, unlike Civ2 with its near total customization of everything?

[Spiffor]

I suppose Panag meant "the programmers have almost made it, to bring a scenario editor". Apparently, as Mike Breitkreuz said, the true problem was to implement the concept of a civilisation in the map editor, which was done in the latest patch. That's why we'll have a scenario editor only 2 months after this breakthrough.

Still, I don't think we'll see scripting anytime soon, and I'm almost sure we'll never see a scripting language for Civ3, since Mike is reaaaaly against it.

BTW, the current rules editor for Civ3 is pretty robust, and you can deeply mod the game without entering a rules.txt. See WW2-Main Kamp mod (in the files forum), and you'll see that an overhauled tech tree is possible. A rules.bic is as good as a rules.txt.

[WarpStorm]

C'mon, MikeB, give us a scripting language. (I know you'll read this eventually). If you don't want to write your own (a royal PITA, I know), you could embed Python into Civ3 and have a full robust scripting language going in an hour. You still have to do the Civ3 specific extensions, but at least the worst part would be done.

[Flandrien]

Actually, the Civ3 specific extensions are by far the worst part of the deal.
Knowing how to use these extensions comes next.
After that, you could use any OO programming language.
I would use Java, which is much more widespread than Python.

(I think civ3 itself is written with c++ ?)

[WarpStorm]

But I could embed a Python interpreter into C++ in an hour, embedding Java would be a PITA (not counting the legalities). Python is free, open source, and designed to work with C/C++.

IMHO, Python is much easier to teach a non-programmer than Java is. A scripting language that takes a long time to learn the syntax of is useless.

[Flandrien]

What I mean is, making civ3 run Python code would indeed not be a problem.
Making this Python code do something useful IS a problem.

I have recently taken a quick Java course.
You can fit the entire syntax of Java onto a single sheet of paper.

[WarpStorm]

I agree, making the scripting extensions do something useful is the hard part.

[Spiffor]

MikeB refuses a scripting language not because it will be difficult to do, but because it will be difficult to use, for the users.
"The only power a scripting language gives to the fans is the power to create bugs".
I think we'll eventually have an event editor ala Civ2, but no scripting language ala CTP2 (éeventually" means in 6-12 months, not in the next patch)

[Jeffrey Morris FIRAXIS]

Originally posted by Destroyer
Will you need to buy the XP to play scenarios made with the editor in the XP, or will the rule set match the current set in Civ3??

The editor that we'll be releasing around June (and that is a very tenative date BTW) will not include features exclusive to PTW (like the short game modes or new map features). In order to play scenarios with those features, not surprisingly, you'll need PTW. The ability to customize the map with cities and units, create new ones, etc will be possible in the patch editor however, and PTW owners will be able to play these without problems. Scenarios with features specific to PTW included (aka created with the PTW editor) will not be able to be played in vanilla civ3.

Jeff

[tomcat ha]

whats XP

[Spiffor]

XP = eXpansion Pack
Thanks Jeff

[Flandrien]

Originally posted by Spiffor
"The only power a scripting language gives to the fans is the power to create bugs".

I am a good programmer.
I NEVER write bugs.

[Panag]

Originally posted by Jeffrey Morris FIRAXIS


The editor that we'll be releasing around June (and that is a very tenative date BTW) will not include features exclusive to PTW (like the short game modes or new map features). In order to play scenarios with those features, not surprisingly, you'll need PTW. The ability to customize the map with cities and units, create new ones, etc will be possible in the patch editor however, and PTW owners will be able to play these without problems. Scenarios with features specific to PTW included (aka created with the PTW editor) will not be able to be played in vanilla civ3.

Jeff

hi ,

how will this affect the gameplay , ........
and what will happen if you exchange maps , .......

have a nice day

[Solver]

Panag, what do you mean? In June, we'll be given an editor that can make scenarios, real scenarios. Forget about PtW. When PtW comes out, there will be yet another editor, with all the PtW specific feautures, like placing Airfields, setting up Regicide, and such.

[AJ Corp. The FAIR]

Originally posted by Maestro


I am a good programmer.
I NEVER write bugs.

Considering your nationality ...

I believe you !

So things are getting warmer. Next patch in June? Including world maps with correct starting locations IIRC.

Finally ... (Marla's just too huge!)

AJ

[Panag]

Originally posted by Solver
Panag, what do you mean? In June, we'll be given an editor that can make scenarios, real scenarios. Forget about PtW. When PtW comes out, there will be yet another editor, with all the PtW specific feautures, like placing Airfields, setting up Regicide, and such.

hi ,

how will it affect game play , example ; you make a map , maybe a mod , give it to lets say player no 555 , will it work , will the files be able to exchange players , ..........one has PTW the other not , and so on , ........

about scenario's , there should be a way to fix certain things ,
example , Marla's map ; there are a couple things that are changed to much , lets say you want the map , but not all the files that are different , like the arts , etc , .....

there is going to be a problem , if a scen or mod changes your "original" files , and you have no option to set them back again , this problem was small in civ2 , ...

have a nice day

[Firebird]

Originally posted by panag


hi ,

how will it affect game play , example ; you make a map , maybe a mod , give it to lets say player no 555 , will it work , will the files be able to exchange players , ..........one has PTW the other not , and so on , ........

about scenario's , there should be a way to fix certain things ,
example , Marla's map ; there are a couple things that are changed to much , lets say you want the map , but not all the files that are different , like the arts , etc , .....

there is going to be a problem , if a scen or mod changes your "original" files , and you have no option to set them back again , this problem was small in civ2 , ...

have a nice day

Hi Panag

If you load Marla's mod you can revert to the original rules by deselecting somewhere in the menus of the editor. Then you can save the map or make your own rule-changes.

I believe Firaxis will make it easier for us to exchange scenarios/mods. Civ 2 started out in much the same way as far as I remember.

Best regards

[kring]

They may have a different extension for PTW, like .PTW instead of .SAV.

If you have PTW, no problem with either the PTW or non PTW scenarios/maps. If you don't have PTW, and it was made PTW, then scenarios probably would not be compatible if made with PTW. If the PTW person used regular Civ 3, then no problem.

[Panag]

Originally posted by Firebird


Hi Panag

If you load Marla's mod you can revert to the original rules by deselecting somewhere in the menus of the editor. Then you can save the map or make your own rule-changes.

I believe Firaxis will make it easier for us to exchange scenarios/mods. Civ 2 started out in much the same way as far as I remember.

Best regards

hi ,

when you look at art , units 32PCX , you see how they move , before and after one install's Marla's map , ........

Gramphos made a special fix , .....just for the those files , ....
and there is , .....patch 1.21 , .........and the piroque , .......and you cant remove that , ...........
you can get rid of some files , but they change your other files , ....

when using a security scan you can see all the files that are changed , ......and its just to many , also , there seems to be "work" done on some hardcoded files , .............

the best would be that at least at the civ3 site they only show / give the map , not the rest , ......

have a nice day

[Firebird]

Originally posted by panag


hi ,

when you look at art , units 32PCX , you see how they move , before and after one install's Marla's map , ........

Gramphos made a special fix , .....just for the those files , ....
and there is , .....patch 1.21 , .........and the piroque , .......and you cant remove that , ...........
you can get rid of some files , but they change your other files , ....

when using a security scan you can see all the files that are changed , ......and its just to many , also , there seems to be "work" done on some hardcoded files , .............

the best would be that at least at the civ3 site they only show / give the map , not the rest , ......

have a nice day

The one at civ3.com (Marla_Singer.zip ) is only with some rule-changes, so with that one you are able to extract the map.

But you are right things could be better. I hope that Civ3 ends up being at least as good for scenario/mod-building as Civ2, though at some points civ3 is already better. The current editor make changes possible that wasn't dreamt of in civ2 like changing the functionality of wonders and buildings. And these changes are actually easy to exchange (just the bic-file), so I think there is hope .

Best regards

[Civfan]

Originally posted by Jeffrey Morris FIRAXIS


The editor that we'll be releasing around June (and that is a very tenative date BTW) will not include features exclusive to PTW (like the short game modes or new map features). In order to play scenarios with those features, not surprisingly, you'll need PTW.
The ability to customize the map with cities and units, create new ones, etc will be possible in the patch editor however, and PTW owners will be able to play these without problems.
Scenarios with features specific to PTW included (aka created with the PTW editor) will not be able to be played in vanilla civ3.

Jeff

The ability to customize the map with cities and units, create new ones, etc will be possible in the patch however, and PTW owners will be able to play these without problems.

Interesting. Whats this mean? If I install the patched editor and place units and cities into a scenario, the scenario will have problems then. What do you mean by problems.


Thanks

Civfan....

[Spiffor]

I think he means that if you use special PtW features when editing your scenario (such as placing radars and airbases), you'll have trouble playing your scenario with normal Civ3. If you make a scenario without any PtW feature, it will work. Firaxians aren't stupid, they won't hinder the scenariomakers to playtest their creation.

[kring]

Originally posted by Spiffor
I think he means that if you use special PtW features when editing your scenario (such as placing radars and airbases), you'll have trouble playing your scenario with normal Civ3. If you make a scenario without any PtW feature, it will work. Firaxians aren't stupid, they won't hinder the scenariomakers to playtest their creation.

quote:

Originally posted by Jeffrey Morris FIRAXIS


The editor that we'll be releasing around June (and that is a very tenative date BTW) will not include features exclusive to PTW (like the short game modes or new map features). In order to play scenarios with those features, not surprisingly, you'll need PTW.
The ability to customize the map with cities and units, create new ones, etc will be possible in the patch editor however, and PTW owners will be able to play these without problems.
Scenarios with features specific to PTW included (aka created with the PTW editor) will not be able to be played in vanilla civ3.

Jeff

If you use the PTW editor, you will not be able to play the PTW scenario in a regular Civ 3 game; only in a PTW game. You will be able to play a Civ 3 created scenario in a C3PTW game.

[Panag]

Originally posted by Firebird


The one at civ3.com (Marla_Singer.zip ) is only with some rule-changes, so with that one you are able to extract the map.

But you are right things could be better. I hope that Civ3 ends up being at least as good for scenario/mod-building as Civ2, though at some points civ3 is already better. The current editor make changes possible that wasn't dreamt of in civ2 like changing the functionality of wonders and buildings. And these changes are actually easy to exchange (just the bic-file), so I think there is hope .

Best regards

hi ,

Marla's map does changes the arts file , ..............

Gramphos wrote a fix for it a while ago , ............

so marla's map goes farther then just the rules , ..........

have a nice day

[Civfan]

Hi

Any news yet on when this patch will be coming out?

[Dimorier Maximus]

hi,

lol

have a nice day