The thing that kills this game for me...

shclo · May 22, 2002, 08:53

is how every country forms an alliance against me (or any other side for that matter) with no provocation or justification. I realize that there will always be Hitlers that invade their neighboring countries to gain some "lebensraum", but EVERY COUNTRY ON THE FACE OF THE "EARTH" joining forces against me when I have active trades taking place, have a fairly strong army, have had alliances with them that weren't broken, and haven't EVER started a war with anyone?

That's when the game just looses all credibility of a "civilization simulation" for me and becomes Age of Empires (a great game in its own right, but a whole different paradigm -I was hoping). Maybe some of you more experienced players can help me with ways to make and keep allies. Other than that I really love the game. I just wish it was a little more realistic in terms of the way nations react to each other.

Nym · May 22, 2002, 09:05

When you are engaged in a war, try to attract neutral nations with you against your enemy. If you don't do that, your enemy will. The stronger your army is, the easier it is to convince a neutral nation to join you.
In a previous game Persia declared war on me because I failed planting a spy in Persepolis. Spending gold, resources and tech I convinced all other civs (6) to join me against Persia.

MarkG · May 22, 2002, 09:08

all civ games are first strategy games in which your object is to win and the object of the AI is too make you loose, and THEN they are "civilization simulations"....

Zachriel · May 22, 2002, 09:44

Peace through strength.

Capt Dizle · May 22, 2002, 09:51

Personally, I am experimenting with a felt tip pen. Which track on my Civ3 do I blacken to disable culture?

Locus · May 22, 2002, 09:55

You're right, it is pretty ridiculous. Now when I play, I use this tactic against the AI. In a recent game, there were 6 civs remaining. Everyone was at peace. The Aztecs declared war on me even though I had mechanized infantry and he just got cavalry. I even had battleships to his ironclads. He still declared war because I wouldn't give him some tech. (There are tons of threads about the stupidity of the AI in not taking into account the quality of your military so I will spare you.) The next turn, for a pittance, I was able to get everyone else into a military alliance against the Aztecs. Totally unrealistic, but it is a game. It would have been better to have Social Engineering like in SMAC, but alas, I won't digress into that either because it's been discussed in other threads. You're not alone, though, this kind of behavior ruins the game for me, too. I keep coming to the boards, though, to see if someone has discovered some miracle solution to make the game more fun but that hasn't happened. I hope it does. Don't get me wrong, the game had got some great elements, I just expected more after a masterpiece like SMAC/X.

Capt Dizle · May 22, 2002, 09:57

got a marketing call from someone hawking credit cards...guy said I have been preselected to recieve some gold platinum silverized credit card..I asked upon what criteria i was preselected?...guy said it must be my good credit...I said, well, I am in bankruptcy so how could my credit be good...he replied well, must have had credit cards in the past..I said, yeah, I ran up huge debts on them all, if you want to send me another one I'll be glad to do the same to yours..the guy asked to confirm my address..

Hey Momma! We got another card coming! Call Rent-Center...

dunk · May 22, 2002, 10:00

Quote:

Originally posted by jimmytrick
got a marketing call from someone hawking credit cards...guy said I have been preselected to recieve some gold platinum silverized credit card..I asked upon what criteria i was preselected?...guy said it must be my good credit...I said, well, I am in bankruptcy so how could my credit be good...he replied well, must have had credit cards in the past..I said, yeah, I ran up huge debts on them all, if you want to send me another one I'll be glad to do the same to yours..the guy asked to confirm my address..

Hey Momma! We got another card coming! Call Rent-Center...

Only in America. That is too funny.

Kind of off-topic though.

Capt Dizle · May 22, 2002, 10:14

dunk,

Are you trying to say that Civ3 and fun are mutally exclusive?

Ming can you ban this Firaxis bashing whiner?

MarkG · May 22, 2002, 10:17

jimmy, get on topic or get a vacation

AIL · May 22, 2002, 15:24

Quote:

Originally posted by Nym
In a previous game Persia declared war on me because I failed planting a spy in Persepolis. Spending gold, resources and tech I convinced all other civs (6) to join me against Persia.

In my actual game Persia declared war on me because they feelt to be stronger. I had the Great Library and therefor all my Income in Money... I hired all the other Civs I knew to join in a war...
Now I am the most powerful Civ of these I know and really thinking about being an evil guy who'll let the research funding on 10% and trying to do the same that happend to persia to the others before someone of em gets to advanced.
Only point of concern are the 2 outside Civs that havent started on our Ring-Continent...

Whoha · May 22, 2002, 16:58

the ai is a cheap whore, you have to contact the ai before another ai does, offer them your world map or something, it should be enough to make him attack his much larger neighbor who will proceed to run him over.

trickey · May 22, 2002, 17:44

Quote:

Originally posted by MarkG
all civ games are first strategy games in which your object is to win and the object of the AI is too make you loose, and THEN they are "civilization simulations"....

amen

Andrew Cory · May 22, 2002, 17:46

Quote:

Originally posted by Whoha
the ai is a cheap whore, you have to contact the ai before another ai does, offer them your world map or something, it should be enough to make him attack his much larger neighbor who will proceed to run him over.

This can backfire on you, though. I once had the strongest nation in the world (egypt) declare war on me (I forget why, but these things happen) So, I got alliances with all the other (much smaller) nations near egypt, figuring I could do 20 turns standing on my head, wait it out and decare peace. It wasn't like I was even neigboring with Egypt at the time...

I sent out a token force against Egypt, somthing to keep my aliance partners happy with my contribution. The Iroquois asked me to go to war with Rome, and I figured "what the hell?" This would give me a chance to expand a bit, and even share a boarder with Egypt. So at this point I had a nice 3 corner war going on...

I look up about 7 turns later, and what to my wondering eyes should apear? Egypt has taken over most of the territory of the various nations it was at war with; the ones I _bribed_ into war with them! There happened to be a mid-continental sea (think great lakes), so I built a few troop-transports to bring musketmen accross and attack and take newly conquored territory. This stemmed the tide of Egyptian conquest (they were streched fairly thin), and I was able to take much of their new teritory, giving me a nice chunk of land. Egypt and I took most of the Roman Territory between us, finaly meeting with me having most of the coast, and Egypt having most of the grasslands away from the coast. The net result was that Egypt gained more land then they lost, and wouldn't have been able to had I not asked everyone else to declare war on them...

Of course, the results for _me_ were that I nearly doubled my territory, and that + my culture allowed me to overtake Egypt as #1 power and score...

The second war with egypt went _much_ better. That nation ended up on the ash heap of history, much like Rome becoming the vatican...

Cyclotron · May 22, 2002, 18:14

Generally, the best way to keep allies is with a common enemy. For example, I think the best way to win with the UN is to induce somebody to declare war on you, then get everybody else on your side against them. If the opponent is strong enough, you can stay on everyone's good side for the final vote.

Coracle · May 22, 2002, 20:59

Quote:

Originally posted by jimmytrick
Personally, I am experimenting with a felt tip pen. Which track on my Civ3 do I blacken to disable culture?

Man, IF ONLY. Culture Flipping is such a braindead crock.

As for AI alliances, it is the Human against the World - and that is NOT realistic, it is just a fantasy of Soren Johnson.

Coracle · May 22, 2002, 21:01

Quote:

Originally posted by Whoha
the ai is a cheap whore, you have to contact the ai before another ai does, offer them your world map or something, it should be enough to make him attack his much larger neighbor who will proceed to run him over.

In otherwords, the Civ 3 AI has no sense of the strategic, is just a bean-counter, and does not even consider the human element of trust built up over centuries.

As such it sucks, and is worse than the Civ 2 AI.

Theseus · May 22, 2002, 21:03

Not the way I play... my ruler, the Scorpion King, actually deserves to be at war with the world.