India threatens war

[faded glory]

NEW DELHI/ISLAMABAD (Reuters) - India's Prime Minister told troops on the front line with Pakistan Wednesday the time had come for a "decisive fight" to end Islamic militant attacks New Delhi blames on its neighbor.

Atal Behari Vajpayee's tough talk added to fears India was preparing for war to force Islamabad to curb Pakistan-based Muslim activists fighting India's rule in disputed Kashmir.

But Pakistan, in its first significant response to an onslaught of Indian threats after militants attacked an Indian army camp last week, renewed a pledge to crack down on guerrilla violence.

" ... the government will not allow the territory of Pakistan or any territory whose defense is the responsibility of Pakistan to be used for any terrorist activity anywhere in the world," Pakistan's military government said in a statement.

Earlier, Vajpayee said his visit to soldiers in Kupwara in northern Kashmir should be seen as a signal.

"Be prepared for sacrifices. But our aim should be victory. Because it's now time for a decisive fight," he said in a speech broadcast live across the nation by state television.

The nuclear rivals have massed up to 1 million troops on their border since India blamed Pakistan-based Kashmiri militants for a raid on its parliament in December.

Tensions mounted last week after the raid on the army camp in which more than 30 people died. Many of the victims were wives and children of soldiers on the front line.

Pakistan's statement Wednesday, after a meeting of President Pervez Musharraf's cabinet, repeated its pledge to give "moral, political and diplomatic support" to what it calls the Kashmiri struggle for self-determination.

Pakistan also vowed to use "full force" if attacked by India.

But its commitment to curb terrorism in Pakistan and Pakistani Kashmir marked a renewal of a pledge made by Musharraf on Jan. 12 -- a promise India says he has since broken.

"This is the biggest concession Musharraf could have made in the cause of peace," said Najam Sethi, editor of the Pakistan weekly Friday Times weekly.

"In different circumstances, Pakistan would never have thought of saying anything which could be interpreted as an attempt to appease India," said Pakistani political analyst and columnist Ayaz Amir.

WORLD PRESSURE

Analysts say they expect India to give the international community, and particularly the United States, time to try to put more pressure on Musharraf to curb Islamic radicals.

But with the ever-present risk of another attack on India which could force New Delhi into counter-attacking -- or of a militant backlash against Musharraf in Pakistan -- the standoff is turning into a very high-stakes game of brinkmanship.

"The irony is that the timing of the conflict may be decided neither by New Delhi or Pakistan but by some terrorist," said Indian defense analyst Brahma Chellaney.

"Not all Pakistani terrorists are in the control of Musharraf and his cabinet. The trigger of an open confrontation might be provided by elements not within control of Musharraf," he said.

Musharraf faces domestic opposition both to his crackdown on religious extremism and to his support for the U.S. campaign against the al Qaeda network in neighboring Afghanistan.

Highlighting the risk from radicals in Pakistan, Britain said it was withdrawing a large number of diplomats and warning its nationals to leave after threats against its interests.

India and Pakistan have been trading heavy fire across their border in disputed Kashmir since Friday and at least 10 people have been reported killed, including civilians, in the past two days. Each side blames the other for starting the firing.

India has also reinforced a ban on soldiers' leave introduced after the parliament attack and is reviewing its civil defenses.

Its navy said Wednesday it was moving five warships from the eastern fleet to reinforce its western fleet in the Arabian Sea, south of Pakistan.

THOUSANDS MOURN ASSASSINATED LEADER

The assassination of a moderate separatist leader in Indian Kashmir has also stoked tensions. Abdul Gani Lone was shot Tuesday in Srinagar, summer capital of Indian Kashmir.

Thousands of mourners, shouting "Freedom for Kashmir," took part Wednesday in an emotional funeral procession for Lone, a moderate whom India had hoped to persuade to take part in state elections planned for later this year.

The elections are key to India's efforts to try to bring peace to the disputed Muslim region, the cause of two of the three wars between India and Pakistan since partition and independence in 1947.

Lone's rose-strewn coffin was carried through Srinagar in an open truck trailed by men punching the air with their fists and shouting separatist slogans.

Some Indian leaders blamed Pakistan for Lone's death while Pakistan accused India's "occupying forces" in Kashmir.

The India-Pakistan crisis has prompted a string of visits by high-level officials to Islamabad and New Delhi.

The European Union's External Affairs Commissioner, Chris Patten, said during a visit to Islamabad Wednesday that the two countries should work together to stop "terrorism."

British Foreign Secretary Jack Straw was due in the region next week, to be followed by U.S. Deputy Secretary of State Richard Armitage.

British Prime Minister Tony Blair urged both India and Pakistan Wednesday to avoid a confrontation which "could plunge not just their countries into conflict, but the wider region, with implications for the whole of the world."

India holds 45 percent of Kashmir; Pakistan controls a third and China the remainder.

Basterds..... This is veryyyyy bad news.We cannot talk out of both sides of our mouths here. We are fighting a war on terror, Israel is fighting terror, Russia is fighting a war on terror. We cant tell india to restrain themselves. Seems two faced, does it not?

[Ecthy]

we've had a thread like this before though

I'm sort of worried, Vajpayee seems to be pouring oil into the fire as well, and Musharraf can rely on not being farked by W

[red_jon]

A nuclear exchange between India and Pakistan could cost hundreds of thousands, if not millions of lives. They, like many third world countries, were used as porns by the US and USSR in the Cold War.

[Ecthy]

BTW, I don't think either side would use tham that easily. For the same reasons as they were not used in the cold war.

[chequita guevara]

We can tell them not to fight terror if fighting terror increases the risk of nuclear war. Nuclear war is far worse than terrorism.

[faded glory]

Jon this isnt about a blame game. Ultimate blame falls on england who parted khasmir.


7 Indian vessels moved out to see today towards pakistan.

[chequita guevara]

Originally posted by red_jon
A nuclear exchange between India and Pakistan could cost hundreds of thousands, if not millions of lives. They, like many third world countries, were used as porns by the US and USSR in the Cold War.

Only India had nukes during the Cold War. Pakistan didn't go hot until the 1990s.

[red_jon]

Originally posted by Ecthelion
BTW, I don't think either side would use tham that easily. For the same reasons as they were not used in the cold war.

Problem is, Pakistan is highly unstable and a nuclear exchange would be much more localised than if there was one in the Cold War, so it seems much more likely to happen.
Plus they seem to be being ignored at the moment, andin this case a kettle that isn't watched can explode...

[chequita guevara]

Originally posted by faded glory
Jon this isnt about a blame game. Ultimate blame falls on england who parted khasmir.

Much as I'd love to blame the Brits for this, they did not parition Kashmir. They gave each province a choice as to whether it would be part of India or part of Pakistan. The Hindu ruler of Muslim Jammu and Kashmir chose India. The Moslem ruler of Hindu Punjab chose Pakistan.

[Eli]

It's time to take sides.

India!

[Ecthy]

Damn, he took India first... Pakistan!

[Eli]

Originally posted by chegitz guevara
The Hindu ruler of Muslim Jammu and Kashmir chose India. The Moslem ruler of Hindu Punjab chose Pakistan.

Can they really be that stupid?

Actually they can, look on the ME.

India!

[Immortal Wombat]

Jon this isnt about a blame game. Ultimate blame falls on england who parted khasmir.

Where would we be without bouts of illogic?

[red_jon]

I'm definently on India's side -

1- India is democratic
2- Pakistan is a Muslim nation, I (and my muslim friends) dislike Islam - it's too oppressive.

[Ecthy]

But Eli, they didn't know anything about their ME mistakes then.

So... Pakistan!

[Zkribbler]

Originally posted by faded glory
Ultimate blame falls on england who parted khasmir.

IIRC, Kashmir was supposed to go to Pakistan because it has a Muslim majority. However, the raja was Hindi, so he asked India to intervene.

The ultimate blame falls on the courtries' leaders who in over five decades have not come up with a polical solution to the problem.



A nuclear war between India and Pakistan would be the greatest disaster in the history of the world. Millions would die in the initial exchange, but the eco-disaster which would follow would dwarf those initial losses.

[Lincoln]

This thread title seems vaguely familiar

[faded glory]

IW, the province of khasmir was Muslim. Not Hindu... India really had no business occupying it. No matter what there leader said. The british were stupid enough to listen.

[Saint Marcus]

I (and my muslim friends) dislike Islam

how can muslims dislike the Islam?

[chequita guevara]

Not all of India was under the direct control of Britain. Quite of bit of it was under the rule of the Rajhs. Britain had no place in telling those countries to which other country they would belong.

[faded glory]

Originally posted by red_jon
I'm definently on India's side -

1- India is democratic
2- Pakistan is a Muslim nation, I (and my muslim friends) dislike Islam - it's too oppressive.

Why doesnt this point of view come to the freakin ME discussions?

Israel=Democracy
Palestine=Dicatorship

[Immortal Wombat]

IW, the province of khasmir was Muslim. Not Hindu... India really had no business occupying it. No matter what there leader said. The british were stupid enough to listen

So it is a blame game?

[Saint Marcus]

IW, the province of khasmir was Muslim. Not Hindu... India really had no business occupying it. No matter what there leader said. The british were stupid enough to listen.

what side are you on in the ME debate?

[red_jon]

Originally posted by Saint Marcus


how can muslims dislike the Islam?

Her parents force it one her - she's bi and hates the homophobia, oppression of women, etc.

And I agree with her. I'm not a hige fan of any religion, but Islam seems to be the worst of the main ones.

[red_jon]

Originally posted by faded glory


Why doesnt this point of view come to the freakin ME discussions?

Israel=Democracy
Palestine=Dicatorship

I'm actually on neither side in ME discussions, both are in the wrong.

[Arrian]

Of course it's a blame game. Just like the Israeli/Palestinian mess.

Both sides point at each other and scream "he started it!"

-Arrian

[chequita guevara]

Originally posted by faded glory


Why doesnt this point of view come to the freakin ME discussions?

Israel=Democracy
Palestine=Dicatorship

Because Israel's as democratic as South Africa was under Apartheid, i.e., not very.

[Saint Marcus]

And because Arafat was democratically elected, and fairly.

[chequita guevara]

Originally posted by Saint Marcus
And because Arafat was democratically elected, and fairly.

Oh puh-lease!

[Immortal Wombat]

So was Mugabe