Tech trading - Page 2

vmxa1 · May 30, 2002, 18:43

Off topic:
Anyone play Ascendancy in XP? I am having problems with the mouse, the game does work, but the mouse is not responsive and makes it very hard to control. This is in Win95 compat mode.

moomin · May 31, 2002, 04:09

vmxa: demand systems? That's an exploit, you know!

RPM: Radiation shield, mirv missile base and fighter garrison with phasors will kill anties on sight...

Spaced Cowboy · May 31, 2002, 09:35

Moom,

Thanks for the info. Do they still take out your star base in the process?

Vmxa1,

What, you don't play impossible? I'm compressed??

R:PM

Forrest Gimp · May 31, 2002, 11:15

As long as you have planetary missle base u should be ok. As you progress in chemistry even nukes with miniaturization should be able to wipe their frigates out.

vmxa1 · May 31, 2002, 11:54

Yes I play impossible, but not all of the time. It is not my fav way.
Why is demanding an exploit? They do it to you, so it is part of the game. Anyway you only do it once or twice a game. An exploit is to do something that the AI can not use. It was rediculous before the 1.31 patch though. Early versions had the AI surrendering to another AI at the drop of a hat. It also offered systems for no good reason. The AI will not give away systems unless you are stronger and they will be the smallest ones it has, not large ones. Its main value is to allow you to get the system with the defenses in tack. It does not change he outcome. When I demand, I am in postion to take it away if they refuse, which they often do. Well, it does allow you to move faster, as you do not go to war then and do not have to sit on the planet with your fleet. These are not huge, but useful.

moomin · May 31, 2002, 13:34

As soon as your fleet > their fleet on the graph, even if all you build is hulls, the AI will happily surrender a good system to you every five or six turns, while it will probably declare war over trash tech. Try it. It completely ruins the game, but it's sure a fast way to expand.

vmxa1 · May 31, 2002, 14:25

I suspect you are right. I only ask for one system from anyone AI and only two for the game. Often I get none as the AI I am after can not surrender any of its systems, so I declare war. At the time I ask for one, I will have only my starting system and maybe one other, so I want to slow done the growth and get on an equal footing. I like to grab the best planet they have once the war starts to hurt their production and give me a big boost. Plus a huge and maybe rich planet can get fully into production quickly. sinc ethe AI like to blockade, if it can not crush the planet, you need tobe able to have food production on all planets or suffer the lose of colonist. Farms and Weather stations make this a breeze. Let them sit until I can get a fleet over to defend.

moomin · May 31, 2002, 14:35

Yes. I personally don't demand systems since it's just too easy, but then I rarely play with more than 10 colonies anyway, and I like most of these to be monster planets.

Spaced Cowboy · May 31, 2002, 15:09

Vmxa1,

What is wrong with impossible, that is, why is it not the fav?

R:PM

vmxa1 · May 31, 2002, 15:52

Because I like to play on a small universe and in a small U, impossible is a lot of work. They are on you very fast and have a huge lead, you do not have much time to catch up. Since they often meet you very early, they steal everything not nailed down. I dislike bigger U, as it takes too long unless you are willing to take a quick ending such as vote. I like to kill everyone and go through the whole tech tree. Plus in a bigger U I have so many planets to manage and discoveries come too fast. I like to build all my planets all the way up, crazy huh. So I play immposible on large or huge U once in a while, just for the aggrevation.

moomin · May 31, 2002, 16:15

I play huge almost exclusively. Don't really know why - pehaps because I like seven opponents. Still almost never go beyond settling ten colonies - can't bother with the MM. And once it's clear I'm winning - say turn 200 or so - I pay the nice Ánties a visit.

vmxa1 · May 31, 2002, 19:30

That's what I am saying, you would want to end the game without doingeverything on a larger map or suffer much tedium.

moomin · June 1, 2002, 05:47

Yeah. God, I wish the IFP concept had survived in Moo3.

Spaced Cowboy · June 3, 2002, 09:56

What is the deal with the AI tech trading. Early on, it is cool, but once you get juicy techs, they'll ask for teraforming in exchange for anti-missle rockets, or something else way lame. I'm almost considering going for creative so I do not have to trade with them. I'd also consider repulsive, but then I wouldn't get good leaders.

Forrest Gimp · June 4, 2002, 13:58

Doesnt anyone read MY POSTS?

sniff...

DEMAND terraforming from them!!

Spaced Cowboy · June 4, 2002, 14:35

Forrest,

Problem is, I'm the one with Terraforming. They are wayway behind. I'd like to get some of the laggard techs that I've missed, but do not like to give away Terraforming. I've went back and read that thread. Hmmm, give it away so you can come in for the kill....Me likey.

moomin · June 4, 2002, 16:27

Never sit on plant improvent techs, RPM. Give or (preferably trade) them away, and have the AI build that while you build bigger guns.

"Finished that Autolab have you, peacenic boy? Now hand it over"

Spaced Cowboy · June 5, 2002, 08:35

Hmm....they would not trade tech last night, but I was able to get one tech from one of the baddies by demanding it. On the other hand, it looks like my success percentage is only 33%. The rest of the time they declared war on me.

Spaced Cowboy · June 5, 2002, 08:37

Q: do transports count against your command points?

PS Moom, did well last night taking out a few planets of my nearest enemy with missle boats. Seems like I forgot to build some transports for the invasion though.

Garth Vader · June 5, 2002, 11:46

Yes transports count as 1 against your CP.

moomin · June 5, 2002, 15:15

RPM: Yes! We'll make a Moo warmonger out of you yet!

Moomin's honourary nomination to most stupid design design decision ever, BTW:

Moo2 transpoerts don't have extened fuel cell.

vmxa1 · June 5, 2002, 17:03

Neither does Moo's. At least you can make an outpost

moomin · June 5, 2002, 17:16

Yeah, but it's even more stupid in Moo2, since they had a chance to fix it

Spaced Cowboy · June 5, 2002, 18:16

Yeah but outposts can suck. Last night I build one to extend my range to an enemy. I sent off my fleet to deal the death blow at the same time the enemy sent his fleet in to wipe out my outpost. Mutual destruction!

moomin · June 5, 2002, 20:20

That the AI doesn't kill your outpost first thing when you're extending your range while in war is an exploit.

vmxa1 · June 6, 2002, 02:01

True, they suck and I never build them, but you can.
I am not sure if that would be an exploit, just a weakness in the AI. I should be allowed to make outpost, it is not my fault they do not attack them when they should. As far as that goes they should eliminate any thing of the players if they can. It should think like a heart player or a cut throat player. Go after the high man if it is not you, go after the low man, if you are high and if you are against a player that is as good as you or better go after them until you must do something else. Just because the AI is not up to doing things the best way, does not mean I should be limited, does it. I mean you can set restriction for yourself to make it fun, but I would not call it an exploit. An expolit for me would be more like a bug that you can use to your advantage, such as if I knew they would always trade item X for a small amount of money and I used that trick, that is an exploit. Otherwise you could say that because they tend to not have defenses for new colonies, I should not destroy them.

The Mad Monk · June 6, 2002, 04:47

You're kidding me. In every game I've played, the AI made any nearby outposts priority targets -- especially if I had no ships in the particular system.

moomin · June 6, 2002, 05:42

Mad: no, I kid you not. The AI will occasionally target undefended outposts, but not quick enough to prevent you from comfortably using them as stepping stones. Not even when you build it in their own system...

Little known exploit: pre-seed their systems with outposts before you start the war. The may kill one or two eventually, but most will remain to give you range all over their space. Pathetic, really.

Spaced Cowboy · June 6, 2002, 08:50

What is wrong with the I'll research better range capability as opposed to building outposts?

Garth Vader · June 6, 2002, 10:26

I seldom build outposts. It's easier just to wait for range tech. The only time that I do is when there is an enemy that really needs killing