War

delsolsi · May 25, 2002, 04:55

What causes another civ to declare war on me? I was playing a game on warlord difficulty. I'm Egypt, France, Rome, England, and Germany are all on the same continent with me. I'm peacefully building my civ up, all the other civs attitude towards me are polite, and all of a sudden with no warning France declares war on me and then a few turns later the other 3 civs all declare war on me. Whats up with this? How do I prevent a civ from declaring war on me?

Also the whole game France was being rediculous on what they wanted for trade. For example if I offered a luxury to them they would only offer up a lump sum of 20 gold, but if I wanted a luxury from them they would demand 2 techs, a luxury, wolrd map, and gold from me. Same thing with techs, they wouldn't trade a tech straight up for another tech even if the one I was offering was better.

notyoueither · May 25, 2002, 05:19

Was your military very weak? You will be attacked by much stronger civs when they decide... whatever they decide to decide you are food. Once at war, they will enlist allies.

The trading system is a weakness of the game. It is not fair. But then again you have advantages the AI will never have. You think. You learn. It does not. Consider it a handicap. One I wish they would remove.

Alanus · May 25, 2002, 05:26

That's exactly what happened to me during my first game. So a strong army is certainly the best solution. Then you can afford to be impolite with your neighbors (damned stupid AI).

delsolsi · May 25, 2002, 06:28

Quote:

Originally posted by notyoueither
Was your military very weak? You will be attacked by much stronger civs when they decide... whatever they decide to decide you are food. Once at war, they will enlist allies.

Yes my millitary was weak. I was concentrating on building up my culture and getting techs, not planning on going to war. Is there a minimum army that I could build to keep the other civs from attacking me?

Also are they more likely to attack as you go up in difficulty level? The first two games I played on chieftain the other civs never attacked me even though I didn't have any military. Now this game is on warlord, is it going to get worse when I go up to the next level which I plan on doing as soon as I win one game on warlord?

Edit: spelling

Lucilla · May 25, 2002, 07:11

The higher the level, the more free units the AI gets in the beginning of the game (check the editior for details). So on higher levels your military will always be considered weak if you don't pay enough attention to it.
Even if you don't plan to go to war you will need a good military, especially on higher levels.

notyoueither · May 25, 2002, 16:52

Quote:

Originally posted by delsolsi
Yes my millitary was weak. I was concentrating on building up my culture and getting techs, not planning on going to war. Is there a minimum army that I could build to keep the other civs from attacking me?

There is not a minimum number of units to guarantee that you will not be attacked. It is all relative. You could have 10 units and they 5. They will not attack. If they have 20 they might attack. If they have 50 they probably will. Look in the MilAdvisor. He will give you estimates of relative strength compared to the various other civs in the game. The estimates are not entirely accurate, but they are a good indication.

Quote:

Also are they more likely to attack as you go up in difficulty level? The first two games I played on chieftain the other civs never attacked me even though I didn't have any military. Now this game is on warlord, is it going to get worse when I go up to the next level which I plan on doing as soon as I win one game on warlord?

Yes. At higher difficulty they build units cheaper. If those units are not consumed in wars they will accumulate larger and larger forces. You will need a larger and larger force to maintain peace.

The solution for the builder would be to build some military units as you build your cities up. Don't count on just building structures and being left alone. And check the MilAdvisor to make sure you are not considered 'weak' by a neighbour.

Denday · May 25, 2002, 19:34

when you get writing be sure to do your embesies then when you get to natliusm ( cant spell dont care ) get your alliance sthen no one would attack you and you always need a strong army otherwise no one cares

notyoueither · May 25, 2002, 19:37

Alliances, MPPs I presume, are a very bad idea for a builder. Your ally will get you into wars you do not want.

Get Alliances against an enemy after they declare war on you. Never MPP.

Lucilla · May 25, 2002, 19:41

Quote:

Originally posted by Denday
when you get writing be sure to do your embesies then when you get to natliusm ( cant spell dont care ) get your alliance sthen no one would attack you and you always need a strong army otherwise no one cares

Mutual protection pacts can work very badly against you:
You will be forced into war if you have a MPP with a civ and that civ gets attacked by another one. Whether you have a MPP with the aggressor as well, doesn't make any difference in this case.
I try to avoid MPPs as much as I can. Only when I have strong hints that my neighbour might attack in the near future (I have a strategic resource they need, I have a tech that I don't want to trade, I can see massive troop movements, etc.), I might be asking for an MPP.

Ethelred · May 25, 2002, 20:35

Watch out for France in the Moder Era. Joan can be your best friend the whole game untill then. I have seen this several times where France suddenly decides that its now time to go for the win and I was the best target even if I was much stronger.

Once when I was way to strong Joan started building privateers. Odd to build them that late in the game. We both had Battleships and Carriers.

I like MPPs but care must excersized in their use. They are usually much cheaper than an alliance. You must get your enemy to attack you first on your land to use them.

delsolsi · May 25, 2002, 20:50

Thanks for all the replies.

I went back to a previous save and built up my millitary until my advisor said I was average with all of the other civ's millitary. This time France demanded spices or else go to war, last time she just went to war with me with no warning, so I gave it to her to stay out of a war and now I have no problems with any of the civs. I've even been getting good deals trading lately too. Building my millitary up really slowed down my science research for a while, went from 70% - 80% to 50%, but now that I've made some good deals and am getting some cash from other civs I'm back up to 70%.

Some people may think that going back to a previous save is cheating but this is only my third game and I've never played this style of game before so I'm using this as a learning experience with out having to start all the way over.

notyoueither · May 25, 2002, 20:58

Good for you. Cheating? Not in my books. I doubt you intend to submit the game as part of some competition or other.

I'm glad it worked out for you.

Lucilla · May 26, 2002, 07:37

delsolsi,

if you want to learn what effect different strategies have, you have to play around with saved games. I don't see any cheat there. You are playing against a computer, not a human being. The AI won't be personally offended...

If you push up your high score with that method, you will know yourself what your name in the list is worth. I don't care too much about my highscore list, I don't compare it with other players anyway. I'm just interested in learning how to improve my strategy.

Miho · May 26, 2002, 16:24

Thanks for the useful advice guys. I have the same sort of problem. I won the first game I played on the easiest level so went up to Warlord, where I now get a good kicking almost as soon as I meet another civ.

The only other thing I find helps is to build cities like mad until you fill as much space as possible before they declare war on you.

Feel free to share any other hints/tips!!

Lucilla · May 26, 2002, 16:38

Miho, the strategy forum has some really helpful hints. It's also worth looking at the older threads in that forum.
I recommend e.g.

buy or research or

money making strategy or

picking the right civ

Cheers, Lucilla

AIL · May 26, 2002, 17:00

One thing to the AI's Trade behaviour: The Bigger you are the more they demand and the less likely they are to offer something.

In my current game on Regent I now own around half the world and India wanted me to trade 4 Luxuries for 1 and they would not even trade a tech for 1 equal tech + 3 luxuries!

In a Game on Deity when the AI was far superior to me they contacted me and offered me to sell their techs for some crappy lumpsum...

I think it makes sense at all... If there's someone big and he wants something he's to pay a lot... If you are far beyond someone else you think i sell it to him for what he has so noone else can sell it to him before I do...

Ethelred · May 26, 2002, 18:35

That is what happens with LUXURIES. Their value to a civ depends on the size of a civ so the AI bases the price on that. Small civs with little population don't need luxuries. Large civs do.