map generator, and what about dipl. ai?

[smellymummy]

Pondering on the quote from avault concerning civ3, it mentions something about the map generator...

quote: Most recently we have gotten the incredible new map generation system working beautifully ...

Now if this is true, then FANTASTIC! I'm sure i'm not the only one when playing civ games, to end up with such a crazy looking map... either too many island type continents, or just too many huge continents, or crazy climates... it fell short of real (but not of fun..). Then this caused problems, where navy would be useless, or navy would be the do or die tactic. Looking at some of the screenshots of CIV3, I've noticed one map that seems to come up often (I assume it's the same in most of the shots)... and it looks great! In fact it reminds me of a Final Fantasy world map, or maybe Ultima, but regardless it looks well balanced.. a few major continents, well disposed oceans, and even a few minor "large enough" islands. In fact just looking at it made my juices flow at what kind of history could be created.

Is it just me, or is there really not enough information about the map generator. In past civ games, the random generator was always the same. Hotter, colder - more dry, more wet - more land, more water. Then in CTP we saw more goods (major error), no goods (useful to actually make trade worthwile in diplomacy).

On the topic of lack of information, one thing that I'd LOVE to hear more about is the AI concerning diplomacy. To me, it looks like all the info is about the AI concerning strategic moves - military. What about diplomacy?! There will be enormous amounts of complex trades and so on, but will the AI be able to handle it? Some might say, "Yeah it's a sid game, of course it will!" I guess that's a valid response, but then what about how the AI is going to treat the Human player in diplomacy. All CIV games had this same problem... the AI would HATE you. Heck you'd end up giving them TONS of tech, your map, gold, and more... yet they would still HATE you!

SMAC did a good job I have to say. In that game I was actually able to get other factions to "like" mine.. although it would always end up being a real weak one In CTP2 they added a "regard" factor, and that allowed you (the player) to easily change the AI's view on you to something favorable, and they would keep it favorable (yet the AI still had a low IQ).

I'm guessing that with the importance of trade, good AI-Human (and of course AI-AI) relations will be a must! But will it work out that good? Will long lasting allies be possible? Will the AI actually hold their word when it comes to military pacts, will every other civ in the world gang up on you when you turn into a superpower - even though your the nicest going leader around? This has been a gripe of mine with civ, always, and I do hope that someone in firaxis has a solution.

War in CIV is fun; it's exciting. But I also want to have peace!

[Jarouik]

quote: Originally posted by smellymummy on 05-18-2001 12:15 AM Pondering on the quote from avault concerning civ3, it mentions something about the map generator... Now if this is true, then FANTASTIC! I'm sure i'm not the only one when playing civ games, to end up with such a crazy looking map... either too many island type continents, or just too many huge continents, or crazy climates... it fell short of real (but not of fun..). Then this caused problems, where navy would be useless, or navy would be the do or die tactic. Looking at some of the screenshots of CIV3, I've noticed one map that seems to come up often (I assume it's the same in most of the shots)... and it looks great! In fact it reminds me of a Final Fantasy world map, or maybe Ultima, but regardless it looks well balanced.. a few major continents, well disposed oceans, and even a few minor "large enough" islands. In fact just looking at it made my juices flow at what kind of history could be created.

Yes... it would really be nice to have a map generator that created more Earth-like maps in that they would have both large consistent ocean areas with no land and large continental areas - not the kinds of maps you usually get in Civ 2, with a couple of very complex-looking continents spread evenly across the map, often entwined with each other, with small seas everywhere in between. In a word, both sea and land masses should be more concentrated, although diversity would be good in here as well so you could select how evenly land and sea are spread across the globe, making it possible to create Civ 2 styled maps as well.

[Seeker]

Hopefully they now have climate bands and mountain ranges.

U know, deserts and jungles in the middle, forest and grassland in the north...

And an end to the occasional 'lonely mountain' forest ect. Terrain does occur in big (but not homogenous) blobs on earth like big forests, the Amazon, the Sahara, the Kuban in Russia, the Himalayas.

At leat stop jungle and tundra appearing two squares apart...

[Jarouik]

quote: Originally posted by Seeker on 05-18-2001 05:58 AM Hopefully they now have climate bands and mountain ranges. U know, deserts and jungles in the middle, forest and grassland in the north... And an end to the occasional 'lonely mountain' forest ect. Terrain does occur in big (but not homogenous) blobs on earth like big forests, the Amazon, the Sahara, the Kuban in Russia, the Himalayas. At leat stop jungle and tundra appearing two squares apart...

Well, in Civ 2 I think this feature is already done quite well, if you choose to Customize World and select an age of 3 billion years. According to my experience, it yields rather large patches of a single terrain type, at least in parts of the world, or large areas of a sensible mix of e.g. desert and plains - I only play with it nowadays, since I like the results it gives, and it seems to me that even deserts are mostly concentrated in bands on just the right latitudes. However, if you made the areas of a single terrain even larger than that, it might make the map too boring and hinder gameplay. In Civ 2 at least, on a map where much of the terrain occurs in big blobs, the places where you have e.g. a river, mountain, jungle, hills, special resources and grassland right next to each other are a refreshing exception and provide for very attractive city sites, so I wouldn't completely do away with some versatile terrain either.

[DarkCloud]

Diplomacy solution-

ten aspects to analyze

1 Size of enemy
2 Known army
3 Known defenses
4 Known building
5 Size of map
6 Size of self
7 Goal
8 Reputations
9 Alliances
10 Do I get what I want?