Apolyton Capitalist Party

Bear · May 28, 2002, 09:46

Since I disagree with the Communists who insist on keeping our glorious population in virtual poverty, I would like to form this party to give everyone the chance to have riches and prosperity!

Name: The Apolyton Capitalist Party (ACP)
Leader: Bear
Members: Join today!
Manifesto: The production of more cash. Vote for us and we will build stock exchanges in every city, research capitalism (we don't have it, do we?) and give our major cities the capitalism improvement. Furthermore, this Communism policy is just starving us of cash, so we'll switch to Fundamentalism. We'll make loads of caravans to trade with our rich neighbours (and DESTROY the poor ones!

), and keep some because apparently that lets you research during Fundamentalism..

Main points:
Construction of Stock Exchanges in every city
Research of Capitalism
Government change to Fundamentalism
Building of two new Armies & two transport fleets (which we can afford once we've done the things above)
Demanding tribute from all our weaker neighbours

FURTHERMORE, we will save money by destroying improvements we don't need. For example, when we need to build sewers, we'll demolish the aqueducts so they won't cost excess money! And we'll destroy other stuff we don't care about, like.. oo.. the Palace

So join the Apolyton Capitalist Party (ACP) today! Campaign for more cash and prosperity!!

Put your name down here

Bear · May 28, 2002, 10:06

*Warning* *Warning* Speech coming up.. *Warning* *Warning*

Friends, Countrymen, Citizens! For too long we have lived in the toil of our Communist leaders! We have oppurtunities to double our productivity! To triple our tax returns! To quadruple our population!

But we have not. And why? Because of the so-called "Workers Paradise"! I ask you, my friends - have you seen this paradise?

Is the literacy rate of our nation not a dismal 32%?!
Are 46% of our people not diseased?!
Do we not live for just 27 years, whilst the Americans live for 64?!
Does the average person not earn a pathetic $13?!

Sure, our population is the highest in the world. True, our manufacture rate is unrivalled. And yes, we have a mighty army and a huge Empire.

But can you read, my friends?! Can you live into your sixties, my friends?! Can you go out and not be afraid of catching some vile illness, my friends?!

Revolt against our Communist oppressors! Throw off your chains and find the Glorious PEOPLES Paradise!

JOIN THE CAPITALIST PARTY TODAY!
CAMPAIGN FOR MORE CASH AND PROSPERITY!!!!!

-------------
I'm not really being serious.. just injecting some democratic life into this. Feel free to.. ahem.. "silence" me, like good Communists

Oh, and JOIN THE PARTY! (Put your name down)

-Jrabbit · May 28, 2002, 10:46

Marquis, I think we have a volunteer for the bathyscapic survey team. The North is looking rather unexplored...

cavebear · May 28, 2002, 11:20

Quote:

Originally posted by -Jrabbit
Marquis, I think we have a volunteer for the bathyscapic survey team. The North is looking rather unexplored...

Not a bad idea.

I'll bet an ocean voyage in an Ironclad up there could be a very "interesting" experience, as well.

Bigcash · May 28, 2002, 12:16

Bear, I love my capitalism, but here's the problem. We need massive armies in the field if we're going to win, and to be fighting about two wars at a time. Democracy or Republic would murder us with unhappiness. However, I wonder how our research rate is kept so well even though we're in communism.

-Jrabbit · May 28, 2002, 12:39

When we turned Commie, a lot of our Elvises became Scientists. Helped a lot, I imagine. Right, cavebear?

cavebear · May 28, 2002, 12:53

Yes, our excellent Communist educational system has turned out a superb cadre of dedicated scientists!

Bear · May 28, 2002, 13:20

*strokes beard*

Well, the happiness situation is indeed worrying.

My proposal:
Store up cash reserves now (which won't be easy, seeing how we're Communist)
Become a Republic/Democracy for a few decades, with high luxeries to boost the population
Switch to fundamentalism, and build loadsa stock exchanges!
After that, I *suppose* we could switch back to Communism, earning five times the money with twice the population. Of course, with 46% of the people diseased, its not a workers paradise, is it?

Jrabbit- So I'll put your name on the members list, shall I?

civman2000 · May 28, 2002, 13:24

MdS, where are your assassins?

-Jrabbit · May 28, 2002, 13:26

NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO

Marquis de Sodaq · May 28, 2002, 14:39

Quote:

Originally posted by civman2000
MdS, where are your assassins?

Hmm... capitalism?!

Is he truly a comrade of Apolyton? We could organize a bathymetry survey of the polar waters...

H Tower · May 28, 2002, 14:51

it would be much easier to test the sharpened lances of our crusaders on his body, to see of they are sharp enough

Gen. Hancock · May 28, 2002, 15:00

I agree with Bear,

I feel Capitalism and a republic would be much better than the rate were going with our health, life expectancy, and literacy. And you talk about the people of the other civilizations as being slaves. Communism is just a fancy word for Tyranny.:

cavebear · May 28, 2002, 15:50

Quote:

Originally posted by Gen. Hancock
I agree with Bear,

I feel Capitalism and a republic would be much better than the rate were going with our health, life expectancy, and literacy. And you talk about the people of the other civilizations as being slaves. Communism is just a fancy word for Tyranny.:

"Republic"? Have you noticed how many military units we have? We would go negative shields in some cities...

Kuciwalker · May 28, 2002, 15:56

Oh, when I'm chairman of the NKVD, he will pay...

atawa · May 28, 2002, 17:51

Capitalism

I would like to suggest we send this guy to Siberia for some 'Political education'

cavebear · May 28, 2002, 18:03

Not cruel enough. Maybe we should make this person take a Ministerial position!

Kuciwalker · May 28, 2002, 21:15

I know! Let the china/korea/vietnam commie dudes at him!

Wait, that's a little bit too cruel, don't you think?

Bear · May 29, 2002, 04:35

I've put myself forward (well, begged) for the City Planner, so I can begin to spread the word of Capitalism!

Of course, I have a feeling I'm going to fine myself on a trireme in the middle of the artic pretty soon.. or worse, maybe the cabinet.

MrWhereItsAt · May 29, 2002, 05:42

---Personal note from VP MrWIA to Council--

-Intercepted 2131 29-5 -

Concern has been growing within the party ranks about these Capitalist supporters. I would like to ease all of your minds by saying that I believe these ppl are no immediate threat to our system. They are only announcing what they think is best for the people. We must encourage openness of opinion - it is only this way that the peoples' voices are heard.

I would like to say now that a Capitalist government is not_an_option (fortunately for the game there IS no Capitalist govt

) However, there may be some use in moving towards a Democratic governmental system for strategic sections of our future. This would allow a greater freedom of movement of the people, creating the ideas exchange needed to advance our State toward dominance and perfection.

Nonetheless, all this is for the future. Our current system allows for suppression of dissenters, and where they disrupt the daily matters of State they SHALL be silenced. But we must not silence them permanently - this opposes our mode d'operation.

I propose therefore that the upcoming budget make several assassins and reeducation camps available to the Marquis for the purpose of eliminating DISRUPTIVE opposition without eliminating those with well-thought out dissenting opinions. This expense shall be announced as "Expenses for Maintaining trouble-free operation of Daily Politburo business".

That is all.

VP,
MrWIA.

-- Mesage ends --

Mr. President · May 29, 2002, 05:52

What, are all the governmental officials living out their fantasies of being communist dictators?

MrWhereItsAt · May 29, 2002, 06:19

Whatever do you mean by that?

And I'm sure SOME of them aren't.

Bear · May 29, 2002, 07:03

I am not a political dissident. I am simply a normal citizen begging the populace to throw off their chains of Communist oppression, and live in a free, democratic world, where we all have the chance to pull out of the gutter of poverty (46% disease! 27 years live expectancy!).

Besides, I am far more dangerous dead than I am alive

MrWhereItsAt · May 29, 2002, 07:12

Those figures only count for non-posting citizens.

Think of the greater purpose - who needs a health systme when you rule the world?

Quote:

Originally posted by Bear
Besides, I am far more dangerous dead than I am alive.

You wanna talk about dangerous? You haven't met WIA. MR WIA....

The man who may soon head the nation's armies (and the Secret Police...)

/me sighs

I just love that smiley.

Bear · May 29, 2002, 07:20

I'm in Scotland. The figures count for me as well

No, seriously now. I'm just getting into the spirit of things..

Besides, thats a very uncommunist view. "Who needs health when we have power?". We should strive to be the strongest, yes, but not to bully the rest of the world into submission. There is so much we could learn from them, and so much we could work towards together.

We'd make em pay for our services of course, but thats the beauty of Capitalism

MrWhereItsAt · May 29, 2002, 07:29

With a few more techs stolen/wrested off the evil capitalist nations of the planet, we don't NEED to learn off of them (except for caravan cultural exchanges with Rome, of course).

I didn't mean to belittle the working peoples with ill-informed rhetoric about not needing health.

How about this - I have it on good authority that reports of the deaths are greatly exaggerated. We suffered the loss of our main census results when -Jrabbit's team was found to have supplied him with wrong information for the heathens' deity MarkG (his update on the main Civ2 site). The team had their attitudes, how shall I say... "adjusted", and they haven't been at 100% ever since.

But, what can you do? To make an omelette you have to break a few heads, I mean eggs.

Communism is working and working well. We may need to evolve in the future, but until the wars are over, it serves our purposes best to stay for the People!

Bear · May 29, 2002, 07:42

This is like the Reagen vs Kennedy debate.. not sure which I am though

I think that there are a few people who would like to start "evolving" towards a capitalist society now. I'm one of em

If, say, 50% of the (posting) population favour a move towards capitalism, would you and the cabinet accept that?

If 50% think we should have a *very slight* move towards capitalism (using ways to improve our turn revenue), would you accept that?

I think that not many people would be willing to go with the first one. But a lot more may be willing to choose the second. Our tax return is very low, according to my sources, and could do with a boost. A *very slight* move towards capitalism (maybe making 2% of the workers taxmen, improving more land for trade, building more marketplaces, **demanding more tribute from our weaker neighbours** (something I am HUGELY in favour of), etc) could double our profit per turn.

If this is doubled, our budget for the millitary will be doubled. Our budget to improve cities will be doubled.

Which means that our army size will double (slight exaggeration, but you get the idea), the happiness of our people will double, our litercy rates will double, our population will double, and so on.. (double = improve, at least)

Communism, in the short term, is working. But in the long term?

To make a sandwich, you gotta put the ham between the bread, hmm?

P.S. Learn more from them doesn't neccisarily mean tech.. I also meant trade, maps etc.

MrWhereItsAt · May 29, 2002, 07:58

Hmm. And here I was hoping I was absolutely in the right....

I think that we should postpone a policy of overall move towards a richer Democracy type society until we no longer have so many units away from their home cities. However, there is no reason why we can't prepare for this shift whilst we are still at war, and still Communist.

What I mean by this is that if the votes are there, we could have some cities building up the terrain improvements and city infrastructure we need in anticipation of a shift to Demo. This would serve the purpose you hope to attain, and I too share this idea (well, some of it!), just not immediately.

Now when the polls are put up about what to build where, whether to have Engineers improve cities etc, if you convince ppl to vote for it, these things will happen. Furthermore, these small steps won't cause Anarchy, which would be the case if we suddenly changed to Demo. And if these polls aren't started, you can get whoever the City Planner is to start them!

I do like the idea of Apolytonia as a production and science powerhouse, but we are in the middle of something that requires Communism as the best Govt at the moment. Given time, and support for this move, we will get there. Make sure you get done the small things that CAN be done now and it will help in the end.

See what I mean? Are we in broad agreement?

-Jrabbit · May 29, 2002, 08:12

Quote:

This is like the Reagen vs Kennedy debate.. not sure which I am though

When did THAT happen? With which Kennedy??

Bear · May 29, 2002, 08:13

Hmm.

A spontaneous revolution from Communism to Democracy is what, deep down, I want, because it would get there quickly and would be.. quite exciting

However, I know that due to the state of our finances, anarchy, millitary units abroad etc, this would not be a good thing to happen.

I agree with (most of) what you're saying. However, I and my capitalist supporters are quite wary that we may be cheated out of this. For example..

If we gradually turn over to capitalism, building banks and making taxmen, the government may say to the people "Well, we're capitalist now", and when we say "Now we should become Democratic", they might say "Ahh! Was that part of the deal? Nope! *cackle*".

A democratic and capitalist revolution is needed, in my opinion. That is what I am striving towards, and I will lobby the City Planner (and stand for the position

) to make moves towards SAFEGUARDING the revolution - i.e. Making it safe to do the sudden change, when (not if

) the people agree that the time is right.

So, in conclusion.

The Capitalists will lobby the City Planner and the population to get as much favour as possible for "local-capitalisation" (eg. a bank here and there, but not saying "every city must have a bank"). This will, as you say, allow us to switch to a democratic-capitalist form of government more smoothly, without throwing the nation into political turmoil and losing half our forces.

The Apolyton Capitalist Party will continue its expansion, so, when the time comes for the Democratic-Capitalist revolution, we are totally prepared.

We will then shoot the Communi.. erm.. give them nice big houses in the country, for their services

Yes, we are more-or-less in agreement! Now, about that City Planner position..