Thread Tools
Old May 28, 2002, 19:24   #1
Inverse Icarus
Emperor
 
Inverse Icarus's Avatar
 
Local Time: 20:33
Local Date: October 31, 2010
Join Date: May 2001
Location: flying too low to the ground
Posts: 4,625
Similiar Civs?
maybe it's just me, but when i hear the word "Gauls" i think Charlemange, and i think France.

what exactly is the difference betwen the Gauls and the French, territory wise?
__________________
"I've lived too long with pain. I won't know who I am without it. We have to leave this place, I am almost happy here."
- Ender, from Ender's Game by Orson Scott Card
Inverse Icarus is offline  
Old May 28, 2002, 20:37   #2
Carthage Barca
Settler
 
Local Time: 19:33
Local Date: October 31, 2010
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Tunis
Posts: 6
Gauls were what the romans called the people of the region that is now france. I think that it was an error, the Gauls are really the Celts in the game. Soemhting I would like to add though does the game really need the Koreans? I mean Three Civs (China,Japan,Korea) are all squeezed in that area of the world. Now my Korean History isn't very good but, are that that much different from china?
Carthage Barca is offline  
Old May 28, 2002, 22:06   #3
Darkworld Ark
Warlord
 
Local Time: 01:33
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: May 2002
Location: of the Capitalists
Posts: 229
Quote:
Originally posted by Carthage Barca
Now my Korean History isn't very good but, are that that much different from china?
They're closer to Japan than China. (Same language family, Korea got alot of Japanese influence during Japan's conquests of Korea)
__________________
Know your enemies!
"Mein Fuhrer! I can walk!" ~ Dr. Strangelove
Darkworld Ark is offline  
Old May 28, 2002, 22:34   #4
JtheJackal
Warlord
 
JtheJackal's Avatar
 
Local Time: 20:33
Local Date: October 31, 2010
Join Date: May 2002
Posts: 108
Your reason for not including Korea isn't really a good one. China, Japan, Korea all in northeast Asia. Babylonia, Persia, Ottomans, Arabs all in the Middle East. (Most of thier territories overlapping throughout history). Aztec, Mayans, Inca all Central and South America. English, Germans, French, Gauls, Spain, all western Europe, Ect. Its just the way civilizations work out. They branch off each other.
JtheJackal is offline  
Old May 28, 2002, 22:45   #5
monkspider
Civilization IV: MultiplayerCivilization IV CreatorsGalCiv Apolyton Empire
King
 
monkspider's Avatar
 
Local Time: 20:33
Local Date: October 31, 2010
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Wichita
Posts: 1,352
Well put J.
I really don't think Korea is any more similar to Japan than England is to France. In fact, probably much less so.
__________________
http://monkspider.blogspot.com/
monkspider is offline  
Old May 29, 2002, 09:53   #6
KaiserIsak
Warlord
 
Local Time: 01:33
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: of Isakistan Empire
Posts: 207
I agree with monkspider on that one. But Koreas historical role is much less then the one of france and britain.
I think koreas historical role is to small to be included.
KaiserIsak is offline  
Old May 29, 2002, 14:46   #7
Inverse Icarus
Emperor
 
Inverse Icarus's Avatar
 
Local Time: 20:33
Local Date: October 31, 2010
Join Date: May 2001
Location: flying too low to the ground
Posts: 4,625
Quote:
Originally posted by KaiserIsak
I agree with monkspider on that one. But Koreas historical role is much less then the one of france and britain.
I think koreas historical role is to small to be included.
i was talking to my chinese friend about this today (he's a bit more up on his asian history than i am) and he said Korea was the Poland of Asia, in that it was constantly conquered and subjigated by other powers, seperated by small attempts of self-rule.
__________________
"I've lived too long with pain. I won't know who I am without it. We have to leave this place, I am almost happy here."
- Ender, from Ender's Game by Orson Scott Card
Inverse Icarus is offline  
Old May 29, 2002, 16:22   #8
JtheJackal
Warlord
 
JtheJackal's Avatar
 
Local Time: 20:33
Local Date: October 31, 2010
Join Date: May 2002
Posts: 108
Korea got a chapter in my high school history book, Poland didn't.
JtheJackal is offline  
Old May 29, 2002, 16:23   #9
Panag
MacCivilization II Democracy Game: ExodusC4BtSDG Rabbits of Caerbannog
Emperor
 
Panag's Avatar
 
Local Time: 03:33
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: MY WORDS ARE BACKED WITH BIO-CHEMICAL WEAPONS
Posts: 8,117
Quote:
Originally posted by KaiserIsak
I agree with monkspider on that one. But Koreas historical role is much less then the one of france and britain.
I think koreas historical role is to small to be included.
hi ,

wrong , what they did was huge , only it aint documented so much in the western world , .......

have a nice day
Panag is offline  
Old May 30, 2002, 01:43   #10
phunny_pharmer
Chieftain
 
Local Time: 01:33
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Jun 2000
Posts: 90
"Korea got a chapter in my high school history book, Poland didn't" How about: Solidarity? Chopin? Curie? The Poles have contributed a lot to world history and culture. I'm not even Polish.

That is no way to judge a civ. Who is to say that your textbook was right, or wasn't biased?

However, considering that there already is an overabundance of European civs, I don't think the Poles should be included. Korea should be in.
__________________
They're coming to take me away, ha ha...
phunny_pharmer is offline  
Old May 30, 2002, 03:32   #11
GeneralTacticus
Alpha Centauri Democracy GameAlpha Centauri PBEMPtWDG RoleplayNationStatesInterSite Democracy Game: Apolyton TeamCivilization III PBEMApolyton Storywriters' GuildACDG3 Spartans
Emperor
 
GeneralTacticus's Avatar
 
Local Time: 12:33
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: of Melbourne, Australia
Posts: 6,851
Quote:
i was talking to my chinese friend about this today (he's a bit more up on his asian history than i am) and he said Korea was the Poland of Asia, in that it was constantly conquered and subjigated by other powers, seperated by small attempts of self-rule
Are you sure he didn't mean dominated? Prior to 19th-20th centuris Korea was independant for more than a thousand years...
GeneralTacticus is offline  
Old May 30, 2002, 04:31   #12
KaiserIsak
Warlord
 
Local Time: 01:33
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: of Isakistan Empire
Posts: 207
Poland were for several hundred years one of the biggest power in europe, and we would probably be moslems all of us if it was´nt for their victory outside Vienna in 1683 (i think thats the year) over the ottomans.
Panang, what was huge? Could you please tell me? i dont know so much about korean history, but i would like to learn.
KaiserIsak is offline  
Old May 30, 2002, 08:12   #13
Adm.Naismith
King
 
Adm.Naismith's Avatar
 
Local Time: 02:33
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Oct 1999
Location: Milano - Italy
Posts: 1,674
Quote:
Originally posted by KaiserIsak
I agree with monkspider on that one. But Koreas historical role is much less then the one of france and britain.
I think koreas historical role is to small to be included.
Hmmm, are you baiting Yin26 to coming back with a vengeance?

He wrote a very extended (somewhat overextended, are you listening my friend? ) tirade to explain the role of Korea during History.

I must admit it was interesting for an European as I am, in fact an Italian that suffered an excessive amount of history lesson about Roman History, to learn more about Asian history.
Adm.Naismith is offline  
Old May 30, 2002, 10:42   #14
civman2000
Civilization III Democracy GameCivilization II Democracy GameNationStatesNever Ending StoriesDiplomacyInterSite Democracy Game: Apolyton TeamPtWDG RoleplayC3C IDG: Apolyton Team
Emperor
 
civman2000's Avatar
 
Local Time: 19:33
Local Date: October 31, 2010
Join Date: May 2001
Location: of the Martian Empire
Posts: 4,969
poland was huge, but iirc weak. Thye were the largest country but really not one of the strongest powers.
__________________
Ham grass chocolate.

"This should be the question they ask you before you get to vote. If you answer 'no', then they brand you with a giant red 'I' on your forehead and you are forever barred from taking part in the electoral process again."--KrazyHorse
"I'm so very glad KH is Canadian."--Donegeal
civman2000 is offline  
Old May 30, 2002, 15:16   #15
Miznia
Warlord
 
Miznia's Avatar
 
Local Time: 19:33
Local Date: October 31, 2010
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Madison WI
Posts: 185
But Polish culture spread, overwhelming neighboring cultures that became more powerful. For instance, German, Russian, and Uralic culture are all Polic off-shoots.

Korea on the other hand has no unique culture, and survives only because it's like Australia in Risk: four provinces that take forever to get to and don't have to be heavily defended, and only give you two armies per turn if you own them all. And to top that off, they couldn't even count as a continent without lumping in Indonesia and Papua New Guinea!

Korean Pop is awesome, by the way.

Miznia
__________________
I hate oral!!
Miznia is offline  
Old May 30, 2002, 16:18   #16
Inverse Icarus
Emperor
 
Inverse Icarus's Avatar
 
Local Time: 20:33
Local Date: October 31, 2010
Join Date: May 2001
Location: flying too low to the ground
Posts: 4,625
Quote:
Originally posted by Adm.Naismith


Hmmm, are you baiting Yin26 to coming back with a vengeance?
yes, yes i am
__________________
"I've lived too long with pain. I won't know who I am without it. We have to leave this place, I am almost happy here."
- Ender, from Ender's Game by Orson Scott Card
Inverse Icarus is offline  
Old May 30, 2002, 20:15   #17
Veracitas
Warlord
 
Veracitas's Avatar
 
Local Time: 01:33
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Jul 1999
Location: Berkeley, California (or) Fairfax, Virginia
Posts: 138
Quote:
Originally posted by KaiserIsak
I agree with monkspider on that one. But Koreas historical role is much less then the one of france and britain.
I think koreas historical role is to small to be included.
KaiserIsak, before you make such quick and rash judgments, please think over your words more carefully. My main quarrel would be with the last part of your statement: please check out this thread for more info. I know it's long, but I encourage you to at least read the first post. If it piques your interest at all, an interesting debate follows...
Veracitas is offline  
Old May 31, 2002, 13:28   #18
KaiserIsak
Warlord
 
Local Time: 01:33
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: of Isakistan Empire
Posts: 207
You are wrong about poland being weak, like i said, without them we might have been moslems all of us.

miznia, i think you are wrong. What i have heard is that they definatly are unique compared to their neighbourd. But i may be wrong.

I read about korea, and i still dont think they should be in. Even if it was good reading and good achievements they would not be to high on my list.
KaiserIsak is offline  
Old May 31, 2002, 14:23   #19
H Tower
Civilization II Democracy Game: ExodusScenario League / Civ2-CreationCivilization II Democracy Game: Red FrontCivilization II Democracy GameNationStates
 
H Tower's Avatar
 
Local Time: 20:33
Local Date: October 31, 2010
Join Date: Jul 2001
Posts: 6,135
Quote:
Originally posted by Miznia
Korea on the other hand has no unique culture
have you studied korea AT ALL? from your post, it doesn't seem likely
H Tower is offline  
Old May 31, 2002, 15:43   #20
Inverse Icarus
Emperor
 
Inverse Icarus's Avatar
 
Local Time: 20:33
Local Date: October 31, 2010
Join Date: May 2001
Location: flying too low to the ground
Posts: 4,625
Quote:
Originally posted by H Tower


have you studied korea AT ALL? from your post, it doesn't seem likely
make him ask yin, wasnt there a 6 page topic on why korea should be included? maybe firaxis listened. :loL
__________________
"I've lived too long with pain. I won't know who I am without it. We have to leave this place, I am almost happy here."
- Ender, from Ender's Game by Orson Scott Card
Inverse Icarus is offline  
Old May 31, 2002, 16:15   #21
Miznia
Warlord
 
Miznia's Avatar
 
Local Time: 19:33
Local Date: October 31, 2010
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Madison WI
Posts: 185
Quote:
have you studied korea AT ALL? from your post, it doesn't seem likely
Did you even READ my post? If so, then how about addressing some of the points I raised?

For the record I am pro-Korean-inclusion.
__________________
I hate oral!!
Miznia is offline  
Old May 31, 2002, 17:46   #22
H Tower
Civilization II Democracy Game: ExodusScenario League / Civ2-CreationCivilization II Democracy Game: Red FrontCivilization II Democracy GameNationStates
 
H Tower's Avatar
 
Local Time: 20:33
Local Date: October 31, 2010
Join Date: Jul 2001
Posts: 6,135
you compared korea to the australian territory in risk. was that you point?
H Tower is offline  
Old May 31, 2002, 17:57   #23
Oerdin
Deity
 
Oerdin's Avatar
 
Local Time: 18:33
Local Date: October 31, 2010
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: In a bamboo forest hiding from Dale.
Posts: 17,436
I've been to Korea several times and I like it. However, Korea is no more deserving of inclusion then half a dozen other nations I can think of...
__________________
Christianity is the belief in a cosmic Jewish zombie who can give us eternal life if we symbolically eat his flesh and blood and telepathically tell him that we accept him as our lord and master so he can remove an evil force present in all humanity because a woman was convinced by a talking snake to eat from an apple tree.
Oerdin is offline  
Old June 1, 2002, 00:09   #24
Darkworld Ark
Warlord
 
Local Time: 01:33
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: May 2002
Location: of the Capitalists
Posts: 229
Quote:
Originally posted by H Tower
you compared korea to the australian territory in risk. was that you point?
I like Australia in Risk, easy to protect.
__________________
Know your enemies!
"Mein Fuhrer! I can walk!" ~ Dr. Strangelove
Darkworld Ark is offline  
Old June 1, 2002, 17:25   #25
Mikhail
Chieftain
 
Local Time: 19:33
Local Date: October 31, 2010
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: flesh.and.binary
Posts: 75
Korea does have a distinct culture, but I think Oerdin said it best. If firaxis were going to add 16 civs instead of 8, then I'd consider putting them in.

If I were going to add another Asian civ, I'd put in Tibet. They're probably THE most distinct culture in Asia, along with a significant role in history.

Furthermore, the Asia culture set will be the only culture set without a 'lost civilization'. Romans, Zulu, Babylon, Aztecs, and soon to be Gauls for Europe...Asia needs one for the 'what if' factor.
Mikhail is offline  
Old June 1, 2002, 18:29   #26
spicytimothy
Civilization III Democracy Game
Chieftain
 
spicytimothy's Avatar
 
Local Time: 17:33
Local Date: October 31, 2010
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 67
I agree that Korea should NOT get included.

Although unlike Poland it's beeb independent for an extremely long time (both China and Japan has numerous attempts to invade, but failed most of the time...) it has no unique culture. Period. The Korean language u see today is a relatively new usage bud off from Chinese. They hv been using Chinese characters of thousands of years. They fashion, language, economy, arcitechture, and basically culture in general is very Chinese. Recent years, there hv been more Japanese influence, but Japanese bud off from the Chinese n e ways...

All in all, I believe that Civs should b chosen due to their historical acheivements, and Koreans did NOT do much. If u talk to Koreans nowadays, most of them (at least all the ones around me) agree that they copy more than invent. i think firaxis added the Koreans only to balance the original locations of the XP's new Civs. Some from EU, some from Asia, some from Americas.

spicytimothy

P.S. I would like to know what's the special unit of the Koreans...
__________________
Image is just your imagination. Reality is rarely revealed. - Geri Halliwell
spicytimothy is offline  
Old June 1, 2002, 18:48   #27
Oerdin
Deity
 
Oerdin's Avatar
 
Local Time: 18:33
Local Date: October 31, 2010
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: In a bamboo forest hiding from Dale.
Posts: 17,436
Supposedly the Korean special unit will be a rocket cart. Incidentally, both Chinese and Japanese also had this type of devise. If I recall the Chinese were the first to invent it too.
__________________
Christianity is the belief in a cosmic Jewish zombie who can give us eternal life if we symbolically eat his flesh and blood and telepathically tell him that we accept him as our lord and master so he can remove an evil force present in all humanity because a woman was convinced by a talking snake to eat from an apple tree.
Oerdin is offline  
Old June 1, 2002, 18:48   #28
Spiffor
Civilization III Democracy GamePtWDG LegolandApolytoners Hall of Fame
 
Spiffor's Avatar
 
Local Time: 03:33
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: jihadding against Danish Feta
Posts: 6,182
Spicymonthy :
The Korean UU is likely to be the Hwacha, a kind of artillery cart firing a bunch of arrows with gunpowder.
When you say Koreans didn't invent much, it think you're completely wrong : check this thread : http://apolyton.net/forums/showthrea...hreadid=25219.
__________________
"I have been reading up on the universe and have come to the conclusion that the universe is a good thing." -- Dissident
"I never had the need to have a boner." -- Dissident
"I have never cut off my penis when I was upset over a girl." -- Dis
Spiffor is offline  
Old June 1, 2002, 19:36   #29
spicytimothy
Civilization III Democracy Game
Chieftain
 
spicytimothy's Avatar
 
Local Time: 17:33
Local Date: October 31, 2010
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 67
Quote:
Originally posted by Spiffor
Spicymonthy :
The Korean UU is likely to be the Hwacha, a kind of artillery cart firing a bunch of arrows with gunpowder.
When you say Koreans didn't invent much, it think you're completely wrong : check this thread : http://apolyton.net/forums/showthrea...hreadid=25219.
Thanks for the threat and the politeness Spiffor. But i still don't agree that Koreans should b included.

The first few points are all modern statistics. Not only did it prove nothing about the cultural value, it's all just numbers. The Choice isn't based on how large the country is, or how many ppl live in the capital, or how dense it is. there're smaller countries with more cultural values, capitals with less ppl that has more sights to see, a lot less dense countries with more interesting pasts.

As for the foreign currency reserves and import/export market, these only proves the economy of Korea (or more specifically South Korea) (BTW, I find it hard to believe that Korea is the 13th largest country... There's no Korea! Only South Korea and North Korea!)

Biggest airport... Hyundai and Samsung... yeah, like... the richest man in the world lives in the US, and The largest dam will be completed soon in China, and the longest river of the world is in Egypt... what do these prove???

And let's not even discuss the "achievements" that Korea made in comupter gaming and internet usage...

Quote form article:"Koreans have great concern for education, and illiteracy is almost non-existent." Hello??? North Korea??

Quote form article: "Many shows like the Simpsons are actually produced in Korea and shipped back to the U.S. for broadcasting." Wow. I'm impressed. Ever stop and wonder where do all the "Made in China" products in the US market come from?

"Taekwondo" is a Chinese word. Koreans merely learned it from a branch of Chinese kungfu.

"Will Co-host the 2002 World Cup with Japan." How many countries had hosted World Cup b4???

"In the past 2,000 years, Korea has been attacked or invaded nearly 1,000 times. And yet, it has never lost its cultural identity." Aside from being called Koreans and the Korean language, I don't see any cultural identity. On the other hand, I think they learn more from others every time they have a war... But I DO give them credit for the good defense they have.

As for the places that the threat introduced, I don't see how they protrait the uniqueness of Korea. a canon with Chinese characters, temples and statues that represents Buddhism more than Korea, a building with the longest floor space (??) a diary that was written on a daily basis for a long time... How do they prove Korea as a unique historically and culturally rich civilization?

As for the inventions, I doubt that they invented them. Especially Printing machine thingy and the water clock... Chinese is long credited for inventing paper and the printing process. And water clocks are invented separately by many many civs.

Like one of the first replies on that threat, Korea didn't have a large impact on the world in history. Don't think i'm talking about conquering and "forcing their culture on others"... but unlike many other more impressive civs, Korean culture and way of life are exclusive to Koreans and have not much effect on the world... this is a fact.

Thank you for posting this great link and thank yin26 for typing up such a great topic... but it fail to persuade me from my stand...

spicytimothy
__________________
Image is just your imagination. Reality is rarely revealed. - Geri Halliwell
spicytimothy is offline  
Old June 2, 2002, 00:58   #30
Boney
Call to Power II MultiplayerCall to Power Multiplayer
Warlord
 
Local Time: 02:33
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Thailand
Posts: 273
tibet? Why?
Okay so I am a little biased here, but people tend to forget Thailand. All I am seeing is Poland and Korea, whilst I think that both have their pros and cons Thailand would be a better inclusion.

Quote:
I think koreas historical role is to small to be included.
Quote:
Korea got a chapter in my high school history book, Poland didn't.
Quote:
However, considering that there already is an overabundance of European civs, I don't think the Poles should be included. Korea should be in.
Maybe I should say Thai (as opposed to Thailand) as in the people and culture, which encompass 5 countries.

Firstly Thailand has always been independent. Thai language is one of the widest spoken languages in the world, it is spoken in Laos, in Burma and in Southern China (between thailand and Burma by the Shan people, their ancient name is 'Thai Yai' or Big Thai, it is also spoken in southern Yunnan province in China, I can actually go there and be understood)Thai has its own script totally different from any other language. Thai even has its own script for numbers which are still very prevelant despite the clammer for Western tourist dollars, and easier understanding for tourists. Thai language has an alphabet, but there are more characters than in English, but Thai is more phonetically correct. (eg. bough, bought, rough would not happen)

Culturally Thai people are totally different from the rest of Asia, an anomally. There is no caste system, women are not looked upon as so inferior as in other Asian nations. People have more freedom to express themselves, gays or ladyboys are not shunned by society, and are not beaten up or picked on. essentially Thai fashion, language, economy, architecture, and basically culture in general is very, ...well, ...Thai.

Quote:
If I were going to add another Asian civ, I'd put in Tibet. They're probably THE most distinct along with a significant role in History
What is Tibet's significant role in History?

Thailand benefitted by being between the English in India and the French in Indo-China, this made Thailand an important factor in the 19th century power games.

Thai monks also reintroduced Buddhism to Sri Lanka.

With the late 20th century focus on Indo-China Thailand has also been significant, as the only safe western enclave.

Also Muay Thai is one of the few forms of fighting that has become an art, with fights being fought to the accompaniment of traditional music, and opponents having to stick to certain rituals before fighting.

Even today Thailand is one of the few Asian countries where westerners can feel totally safe, and not be treated like aliens. Maybe Buddhism helps both Thailand and Tibet in this case.

Last edited by Boney; June 3, 2002 at 00:06.
Boney is offline  
 

Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 21:33.


Design by Vjacheslav Trushkin, color scheme by ColorizeIt!.
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.2
Copyright ©2000 - 2010, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Apolyton Civilization Site | Copyright © The Apolyton Team