I Want Paras

[Lawrence of Arabia]

I want Paratroopers in CivIII, They added a whole new dimension to the game.

• It was more complicated to defend your cities and infrastructure when you if you had a city within 10 spaces, you could drop in a few paras and cut the rail/road link. This would be especially usefull to get the players defend outside their cities. If a para lands on a vital silk road and cuts it, your whole civ could go into disorder.
• You could build para armies and drop the lot somewhere. A horde of paras dropping near one of your interior cities which is not defended can wreak havoc on your civ.
• Increases the amount of different playing styles that exist. (eg. Send in lots of paras and cut all of the roads between the cities, then do an amphibious invasion.
• Paras should be able to do a few 'engineer' type things. They should be able to build a weaker type of fortress (+25%)

Something that firaxis should add is the communication, organization, and tactics to the paras. When you first invent then, dropping them makes them lose 1/2 of their HP because lots of times they were scattered across half the contient, and many times they're parachutes didnt deploy. (see D-Day, and Operation Marketgarden, and the Invasion of Crete) With the invention of Jet Propultion, the paras should then lose 1/4 of their HP. Finally, with the advacne of Combined Tactics, your paras would not lose any HPs. When you first get them, paras should have a range of 10. With the advent of Jet Propulsion, this should be increased to 20.
One more thing. Paras should be resonably strong (lets say 5/5, or 5/4) and shouldnt be too expensive. When in covered terrain, they cannot be subject to bombardment of any sort, and can lie hidden from anything except all types of infantry.

Tell me if this unit is too powerful.

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Goooooooooooood Morning Vietnam!

[Stefu]

Heh, in Finnish language Paras means 'the best', so the title had me wondering a bit

Still, it's important, either way.

[Bereta_Eder]

In slang greek Paras means money. So I agree 100% with the title «I want Paras»

[Grumbold]

That is way too powerful. Paratroops drop without heavy support armament and so, while well trained, are weaker than regular forces in a prolonged fight. Crete and Arnhem are good examples of what can happen if the enemy is able to react. They are not invulnerable to artillery either.

With civ preferring relatively small unit numbers and units fortified in cities and fortresses any unit that can drop and instantly cut communication lines is likely to be too unbalancing unless they introduce air interception. I hope they do.

[Ralf]

quote: Originally posted by Lawrence of Arabia on 05-20-2001 01:55 PM Tell me if this unit is too powerful.

If the AI only could really use the para-unit intelligently. Too powerful? Well, a paratrooper should of course be able to take control over a defenceless city within the same turn. But it should NOT be able to land on any improved terrain-tile and pillage it within the same turn. It just have to wait until the next turn. This reflects the vulnerability of dropping ligthly armed soldiers from the sky in enemy territory.

[This message has been edited by Ralf (edited May 20, 2001).]

[Lawrence of Arabia]

i know that Paras means the best in Finnish. Im half Finnish. Also, i agree with you Grumbold.

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Goooooooooooood Morning Vietnam!

[AzNtoccata]

GOod idea. I think they should be available earlier 2 if this idea is applied.

quote: Originally posted by Lawrence of Arabia on 05-20-2001 01:55 PM I want Paratroopers in CivIII, They added a whole new dimension to the game.

I'm not sure if Firaxis has stated which unite from Civ 2 will be deleated.
However they did say that most units from Civ 2 are still in the game. So unless they tell us that Paratropper are gone don't worrie about them.



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[Lawrence of Arabia]

hey Paiktiss, how did you get the wizard on under your name?

Lawrence: Hit Control panel top of page. Then hit edit options, scroll down to botton and click on change avatar and have fun. All of Civ 2 icon are showen.

[Lawrence of Arabia]

Thank you Josef

[ixnay]

Why not add air transports to the game, and paratroopers would then be troops that could get off of the plane in mid-air. Other troops would have to unload at an airbase or city. Then, you would have to protect not only your paratroopers on the ground, but also your transports of units.

Originally posted by Kyller
Why not add air transports to the game, and paratroopers would then be troops that could get off of the plane in mid-air. Other troops would have to unload at an airbase or city. Then, you would have to protect not only your paratroopers on the ground, but also your transports of units.

A very good idea. In CTP 1 the paratrooper turned into a C-5 few to the drop point and then return to a paratrooper landing in the drop zone.

[BeBro]

A very good idea. In CTP 1 the paratrooper turned into a C-5 few to the drop point and then return to a paratrooper landing in the drop zone.

Yes, this wasn´t bad in CTP, but I would prefer real air transport units. For the paras, perhaps there should be a chance of some percent that they land in a slightly different square than desired, to reflect the difficulties of such operations in a war.

[Lawrence of Arabia]

Kinda like what i suggeseted right?

[Sava]

I agree with Air Transports like in CTP and CTP2... but in regards to losing HP or having inaccurate drops...

Each tile in Civ is about 100 miles by 100 miles, how far off can a drop be? It's not going to be more than 10 miles off, so the inaccurate dropping idea is pretty much dead.

Losing HP...If the HP system were realistic you could have some type of penalty. A realistic HP system would be HP based upon the amount of people and supplies in an army. Armies need constant a supply of food, weapons, and after the invention of gunpowder, ammunition. Tank and other automobile based units need gasoline. I'd like to see a supply system put in, that would automatically penalize the player for not supplying his paratroopers.

[Lawrence of Arabia]

Paras are designed and trained to be cut off from the front lines, alone, and outnumbered. They excel when they are in groups of 4 or 5. If there was any sort of supply situation in civIII, then paras would have to be excluded.

[Sava]

You really don't know much more about Paratroopers than what you probably saw in "Saving Private Ryan", Lawrence. My Grandfather was a paratrooper in WWII, and I've learned a lot of first hand information from him.

Paratroopers in WWII were supposed to get behind enemy lines and wreak havoc behind the enemy while friendly troops advanced. Paratroopers are not a self-sufficient unit behind enemy lines. They usually were thrown back into circulation when meeting up with other regiments. They were NOT supposed to assault further into enemy territory. They basically supported advancing infantry regiments. No more.

In Vietnam, my Uncle was a Commando. Some regiments were parachuted behind "hot" areas and created a sort of crossfire. They would then advance on a Viet Cong bunker or village, meeting up with advancing troops.

Paratroopers would be no match for a city with artillery bunkers. They were never used as a primary assault unit, only as support.

[Lawrence of Arabia]

SoulAssassin

This section deals with Paras in ww2

I've never seen Saving Private Ryan. Furthermore, I never said that they were supposed to be the primary assualt weapon, nor did i ever say that they were supposed to assault further into enemy territory. Thats why i made them a realitivly weak unit (5-4) or (5-5)To be dropped alone into the middle of enemy territory requires that you have some sort of self-sufficency. How are you supposed to get supply drops to paras when most of the time, Colonels, Majors, even Captains of the regiments didn't know where the rest of their forces were. Further more, you say that Paras were there for supporting advancing colomuns of friendly troops. Explain how you can support a regiment from in front of them. Its the other way around. Paras are dropped in to hold a vital crossroad, bridge, or whatever for a number of hours. Then the armored divisions were supposed to link up with them.

I do not want to talk about paras in the Vietnam war because (a) I don't know a thing, and (b) i wouldnt know if you were lying to me or not

[Sava]

Sorry, I must have misunderstood your posts.

But para's aren't designed to be self sufficient. In WWII they aren't given more than two day's rations. Typically, they weren't out of contact for more than 3 or 4 days.

BTW, I don't need to lie to you... I just think that sharing what I know about history would be helpful as I wouldn't want Firaxis to listen to people who don't know jack. And I'm not referring to you.

[Lawrence of Arabia]

Well, it looks like we agree on the majority of the ideas posted here... except for that dradded supply situation!

If Firxais implements the supply system, then maybe Paras could survive for 2 turns without supplies. After that, they start losing HP.

[Sava]

That sounds reasonable.

[Venom]

Paratroopers are indeed a welcome weapon, and as long as they're located in friendly territory or in a city, I think there should be no lack of supply penalty.

[Sava]

OMFG you never saw Saving Private Ryan, Lawrence? WTF is wrong with you??!!! It's the best WWII film to date... Pearl Harbor might be better, I'll see that on Friday...

[Lawrence of Arabia]

On Friday, im doing a ww2 moive marathon. First, Pearl Harbor, the saving Private Ryan, then The Longest Day, and then that movie about the 101st in the Bastogne egg.

Heres a summary of what we came up with for Paras.

• They can be bombarded and sudject to any attack which other units would otherwise be to.
• Paradrop range increase in increments from 10 (which ever tech you first get them with) to 20 (Jet propulsion)
• If theres a supply system in use, Paras can go 2 turns without supplies before they lose a portion of their HPs. Something like the Helicopter thing.
• Paras can build weak fortresses (+25%)
• They should be reasonably strong (5-5) and can be dropped in groups (like a stack)
• There shouldnt be any sort of 'c-5' or 'c-130' transport plane. It should just be simplified to select and click. In civ2, there was always a chance of interncepting your airlift if a fighter was nearby.

[Venom]

Rumor on Pearl Harbor is that the attack action sequences are sweet but the movie sucks like a dutch hooker.

[Lawrence of Arabia]

Well, they spiffed it up with lost of computer generation, thats for sure. Anyhow, isnt the whole movie an attack sequence?

[Uncle Sparky]

What if... to counterbalance the power of paras (which in Canadian means nothing at all) sentried troops in adjacent squares automatically get a free attack?
While most paratroopers are elete crack troops, you have to remember that last year, Italian paratroopers invaded Sweden on the way to NATO exersizes.

[Lawrence of Arabia]

Well then maybe in civ2, the Romans shouldnt get paras

[SerapisIV]

Originally posted by Lawrence of Arabia
Well then maybe in civ2, the Romans shouldnt get paras

And the Romans should automatically lose all battles with the Ethiopian minor tribe/barbarians unless they get military support from someone else.