Red October released. - Page 2

techumseh · June 16, 2002, 23:24

Thanks for the feedback, guys. Selling off improvements should be part of the Bolshevik strategy at higher levels, but some players are a lot more systematic at it than I am. If this still makes victory too easy at the default level, then I'll adjust it in version 2. I've already made city walls as cheap as possible (40 shields), so perhaps I can do the same for other common improvements. That way less money will be obtained by selling them off. Also, I think the less time the AI spends on building improvements, the better.

Perhaps making the bribing of cities more expensive could be achieved by giving the AI civs more advanced techs unavailable to the Reds? I found that making units unbribable in ToT did not make cities containing them unbribable as well. As in FW/MGE the only way to accomplish that is to make the civ a democracy.

kavanaugh · June 18, 2002, 01:09

Thanx, its going a lot better now, even if the Whites keep attacking with tanks and lots of other stuff. I bribed 2 tanks, a Mk. A and a Renault and wiped out several White units each before I lost them.

Im wondering about how you made the Poles work. At first they arent even on the map, then all of a sudden they take over the whole country of Poland. You cant talk to them at first, then you can make a treaty the next turn. Just curious.

techumseh · June 18, 2002, 12:22

Quote:

Originally posted by kavanaugh
Im wondering about how you made the Poles work. At first they arent even on the map, then all of a sudden they take over the whole country of Poland. You cant talk to them at first, then you can make a treaty the next turn. Just curious.

Heh heh. Not a new trick, I'm afraid. There's a Polish settler tucked away in a remote northern sea square, where he can't move or be attacked. Events do the rest. The talker/listener mask initially prevents the Poles communicating with other civs, and a MAKE AGGRESSION event ensures they attack the Germans (Central Powers) as soon as they appear. The following turn, a NEGOTIATOR event allows the Poles to talk to both the Central Powers and the Bolsheviks. That way, they won't make peace with the Germans until they've (hopefully) captured all of the Polish cities.

Interestingly, I discovered that even if all Polish cities are captured, the Poles are not eliminated as a civ as long as that settler remains frozen in the ice.

Jonicro · June 20, 2002, 20:53

Played it through again, this time on deity and without using any comissioners and still it was too easy because of all the money. I got over 6000gp from selling improvments and was able to rush build large army with it. 10 armored trains in turn 2 made it too easy.

Easy solution to this would be dramaticaly lowering shield cost of all improvments, like you said. Courthouse, marketplace and library should be almost free since all cities seem to have them. With the money problem fixed the scenario should be pretty well balanced.

techumseh · June 20, 2002, 21:58

Thanks Jonicro. I'll update the scenario this weekend. Is there anything else which I should modify? Any other suggestions for improvement?

techumseh · June 20, 2002, 22:17

On second thought, here is a quick patch. I'd appreciate it if you'd let me know how it goes. Thanks.

Jonicro · June 21, 2002, 12:07

Thanks for the quick patch, ill try it out and post feedback shortly. For now the only problem seems to be money but ill see if i can find some other things that should be modified too.

Jonicro · June 21, 2002, 13:58

The patch fixed it, money problem is gone. This time i was able to get 2000 in first turn from capturing cities and selling improvments, which isnt too much.

I was able to buy 4 armored trains with this. If you want you can also set shield cost of all the rest of the buildings to half of what its now. Either way the scenario is pretty well balanced now.

Comissars still are problematic though. Cost for bribing cities is mostly determinated by city size and improvments. Its still too easy to buy city full of units for few hundred gold.

Since there really isnt a way to fix this I think it would be best to take incite revolt option away from comissars and agitators. Editing it away from game.txt is easiest way to do it.

One minor problem is grass tile under Leipzig, not that it matters all that much though.

Again congras from great scenario, really enjoyed playing it

kavanaugh · July 1, 2002, 00:55

OK, I started a new game after losing to the Whites and Poles. It's gone better this time, though I still lost my Spartakus revolution in Germany. Now it's the Kronstat uprising that's the problem. I was unable to get to the anarchist fortress in time, and 'pow' there's the Birtish fleet and soldiers taking Petrograd. How do you avoid this, when the fortress is on the ocean and can't be attacked? I tried to bribe it also, but that didn't work either.

techumseh · July 3, 2002, 03:31

Sorry for the delay in responding, I've been unable to get on these forums during the last 24 hrs. I don't know if it's a problem with my internet provider or the poly server. Perhaps both.

For several design reasons it made more sense to put the Kronstadt fort unit on ocean terrain. Mainly, it was the best way to keep it from getting killed too early. So you have to be ready to retake it by means suitable to attacking a naval unit. Some destroyers or air units is what you need. It's an unbribable unit, but a Commissar unit can still inflict some damage by sabotage before the main attack.

The Anarchist revolt amoung the sailors at Kronstadt, previously the staunchest supporters of the revolution, caught the Bolsheviks by surprise. They were sure it was an Interventionist plot to capture the naval defenses of Petrograd. While this probably wasn't the case, it's very likely that the British would have tried to take advantage of the confusion to attack. So an immediate counter attack is the only way to prevent this. If you don't destroy the Anarchist fort on the first turn after the revolt, the British fleet arrives.

The Kronstadt revolt was tricky to design. The fort has to be converted from a Bolshevik one, to a barbarian one, and then if not immediately recaptured, to a British one.

This was achieved by putting it on ocean terrain, then creating a 'Change Terrain' (ocean>ocean) event to eliminate the existing fort unit and then creating a new fort unit belonging to the new civ.

Since the order of execution of events creates new units before changing terrain, new units would not survive unless an intermedate step was inserted to delay the creation of the new unit in the sequence. The 'Change Terrain' event also includes a 'Give Technology' event. A second event with a 'Receive Technolgy' trigger creates the new fort unit. Since 'Give Technology' comes later in the sequence than 'Change Terrain', the new unit is not created until after the 'Change Terrain' event and is safe.