Chretien begins forming his fascist dictatorship - Page 2

Asher · June 2, 2002, 20:02

Something like 40% of Canadians voted for the CA last election, KH.

Even I wouldn't vote for CA last election.

Now that Stockwell's out it'll get more.

Maybe not in Quebec (where you live), but in more sane regions, yes.

Quebec is full of masochists, I fully expect them to keep electing Liberals or Bloc.

Asher · June 2, 2002, 20:04

And what makes you think the NDP is more of an option to people than the CA?

BC certainly wouldn't go that way, what with what the NDP did to devastate BC's economy. Alberta would NEVER, EVER vote NDP. Saskatchewan might, and other have-not provinces might, but the have provinces outvote them.

KrazyHorse · June 2, 2002, 20:09

Quote:

Originally posted by Asher
Something like 40% of Canadians voted for the CA last election, KH.

Liberals: 40.8%
CA: 25.5%
PC: 12.2%
BQ: 10.8%
NDP: 8.5%

EDIT: source is http://www.mapleleafweb.com/election.../federal.shtml

KrazyHorse · June 2, 2002, 20:10

Quote:

Originally posted by Asher
And what makes you think the NDP is more of an option to people than the CA?

It is in Ontario and east.

Asher · June 2, 2002, 20:10

Quote:

Originally posted by KrazyHorse
Liberals: 40.8%
CA: 25.5%
PC: 12.2%
BQ: 10.8%
NDP: 8.5%

Ah, Liberals was 40%.

Still, how do you figure the NDP, in last place with 8.5%, could beat out the CA?

Especially considering the CA will get a big boost in popularity without Herman Day.

KrazyHorse · June 2, 2002, 20:12

'Scuse me: I didn't say that the NDP would beat out the CA, but that the Liberals would choose to form their minority government in a coalition with the NDP, who they're a lot closer to than the CA.

Asher · June 2, 2002, 20:13

You really think that a Liberal government, perhaps under Paul Martin, is closer to the NDP than it is to the CA?

That's pretty funny.

Asher · June 2, 2002, 20:15

And regarding the NDP -- how do you figure they stand a chance, again? Even with a "coalition" government it wouldn't add much at all to scene.

http://www.swishweb.com/Politics/Can...itics04fer.htm

In terms of seats won, in 1997:
NDP: 21
Reform/CA: 60

2000:
NDP: 13
Reform/CA: 66

See a trend?

KrazyHorse · June 2, 2002, 20:17

No, the fact that you think the opposite is really funny. Martin's no longer the frontrunner for PM, IMO. John Manley is probably going to be it, and their coalition might differ on some issues, but the idea that a centre-left party would ally itself with the furthest-right party is ridiculous.

The Libs would choose (in this order): the NDP, the PCs, the CA and the BQ. The only reason I put the BQ after the CA is that the BQ would look silly running the country they want to break up.

Asher · June 2, 2002, 20:19

Quote:

Originally posted by KrazyHorse
No, the fact that you think the opposite is really funny. Martin's no longer the frontrunner for PM, IMO. John Manley is probably going to be it, and their coalition might differ on some issues, but the idea that a centre-left party would ally itself with the furthest-right party is ridiculous.

Bullshit. Obviously Chretien was most threatened by Paul Martin, which is why he replaced Martin with Manley.

The liberals are NOT a center-left party, but a center party. The NDP is extreme left, the CA is moderate right.

Quote:

The Libs would choose (in this order): the NDP, the PCs, the CA and the BQ. The only reason I put the BQ after the CA is that the BQ would look silly running the country they want to break up.

I'm absolutely convinced you're stoned right now.

KrazyHorse · June 2, 2002, 20:22

Quote:

Originally posted by Asher
And regarding the NDP -- how do you figure they stand a chance, again? Even with a "coalition" government it wouldn't add much at all to scene.

http://www.swishweb.com/Politics/Can...itics04fer.htm

In terms of seats won, in 1997:
NDP: 21
Reform/CA: 60

2000:
NDP: 13
Reform/CA: 66

See a trend?

Gains for CA all came in Western Canada, a region which is now basically tapped out. If they want more seats they have to make headway into Central and Eastern Canada, most notably Ontario. This is something they've failed to do to any real degree.

KrazyHorse · June 2, 2002, 20:24

Quote:

Originally posted by Asher
The liberals are NOT a center-left party, but a center party. The NDP is extreme left, the CA is moderate right

I see. There's a centre party, an extremely moderate right-wing party (PC), a moderate right-wing party (CA) and an extremist Marxist-Leninist party (NDP). Something seems a bit off...

Asher · June 2, 2002, 20:26

Right, mostly because Stockwell Day scared many many people. Myself included. Now that there's a sane person at the helm of the party (an economist, even), coupled with the fact that there's a growing distrust and dislike for the liberal government which is suffering from f*ckup after f*ckup, coupled by the declining interest in socialists in the NDP, I expect a very strong CA showing next election.

I dont' see by which logic you think more people will vote NDP to make it a meaningful party. I mean, they're seeing a relatively left wing party screwing up constantly, so you think the first thing that'll pop into these peoples minds is to vote for a MORE left wing party, with MORE government involvement in everything?

Asher · June 2, 2002, 20:28

Quote:

Originally posted by KrazyHorse
I see. There's a centre party, an extremely moderate right-wing party (PC), a moderate right-wing party (CA) and an extremist Marxist-Leninist party (NDP). Something seems a bit off...

Here's the spectrum as I see it, from right to left wing:

Canadian Alliance
Progressive Conservatives
(gap)
(gap)
Liberals
(gap)
(gap)
(gap)
(gap)
(gap)
NDP

KrazyHorse · June 2, 2002, 20:28

Asher, you're a silly man. The PC and the CA can't even come into an agreement. What makes you think the CA and the Libs could?

KrazyHorse · June 2, 2002, 20:29

Someone else who has some idea about canadian politics should talk some sense into you. Harper and the Liberals?

Asher · June 2, 2002, 20:30

I never, ever, said anything about the Liberals and CA cooperating.

The Liberals should burn in hell.

The notion of the Liberals and NDP forming a coalition government is outrageous. If Paul Martin is the next leader (which most people think will be -- I don't know why you don't), then the Liberals will be one step closer to the CA than the NDP. A coalition with the NDP wouldn't serve ANYONE's interests.

Sprayber · June 2, 2002, 20:33

Quote:

Originally posted by KrazyHorse

Martin was a right-wing Liberal. Don't try to dress your bias up as objective reporting...

I'm happy with the turn things are taking. Next JC should appoint Allan Rock Deputy PM in Manley's place. Then we could see Rock for PM in 2005.

Canada needs the rock as its PM

KrazyHorse · June 2, 2002, 20:36

Hey, he did play in the CFL...

Asher · June 2, 2002, 20:41

Not only for the CFL, but he played for Calgary.

notyoueither · June 2, 2002, 20:47

Don't say that Sprayber. We've already got one. Your's is smarter.

jep · June 2, 2002, 20:47

Quote:

Originally posted by KrazyHorse

It is in Ontario and east.

Half the people I know in Ontario would have voted Reform/CA had Preston Manning still been running the show last election.

Ontario does not trust the NDP. The last time the provincial gov't in Ontario was NDP, and they screwed over the province.

Wait a second here, I'm seeing a trend.

When was the last time the NDP didn't screw up?

Sprayber · June 2, 2002, 20:53

Quote:

Originally posted by notyoueither
Don't say that Sprayber. We've already got one. Your's is smarter.

Yeah but you don't let yours out where others can see him

You guys would definitly not be ignored if you had The Rock as your PM. Of course you would have to modify question time a little bit

KrazyHorse · June 2, 2002, 20:59

Hmm. I recall the NDP picking up a seat in Windsor in the recent byelections...

Asher · June 2, 2002, 21:00

Oh, my bad then, this is the beginning of a landslide.

The auto workers in Windsor decided they wanted socialists to give them more money.

jep · June 2, 2002, 21:01

Lots of replies at once. Woo.

Yeah, Paul Martin was right-wing, if by right-wing you mean 'competent'. Of course, it's not really fair to categorize all left-wing parties as incompetent. It just so happens we only have one in Canada, the NDP, who are incompetant. I'm live in Alexa McDumbass' riding right now, and she's useless. She'll probably lose her seat in the next election though, if she doesn't pick a new riding to run in.

Losing Paul Martin will be a shame, since he has done a VERY good job. Denying that is sheer idiocy.

Of course, he's gauranteed to be running the party come February; hell, he's the main reason the Liberals are still running the country now. Denying that is also sheer idiocy. He's got so much running for him

Left the economy in the best shape it's ever been
He's been untouched by the political scandals
He has the media behind him
He has most of the party behind him

And the political spectrum in Canada is with the CA being very right-wing, the conservatives being right-wing/moderate-right (they vary), the Liberals being moderate-right/moderate (they also vary), the NDP being very left-wing, and the Natural Law Party floating somewhere above.

KrazyHorse · June 2, 2002, 21:04

As I read it, in Nov. 2000 the CA garnered 64 out of 88 seats in Manitoba-West...and 2 out of 213 in the ROC. It's still very much a regional party, and Stephen "Alberta Firewall" Harper's made it even more so.

Asher · June 2, 2002, 21:08

Krazy, what's the problem with Stephen Harper and Ontario?

And why do you think he's worse than Stockwell Day?

The NDP isn't even a regional party. It's a party full of incompetent leftovers who want socialism, mainly because they can't find a decent job.

This is really a catch-22. CA isn't, by definition, a regional party, but because it's not based in Ontario, Ontario doesn't want to vote for it. It's stupid, is what it is. If Ontario and everyone else actually voted for the party, it would represent their interests as well (it'd NEED to to stay a majority government).

Criticizing the CA for mainly representing the West's interests, when the West is the only people electing them, is really retarded.

Make no mistake, the liberals are by and large a "regional" party as well considering they tend to give the shaft to regions who don't vote for them.

KrazyHorse · June 2, 2002, 21:11

In other words, if Ontario was more like Alberta then the CA would be a national party.

Asher · June 2, 2002, 21:13

I never said that.

If Ontario actually would look at the party for what it is, a right wing party rather than a regional party, then they'd get MPs that would represent their views, rather than the west.

It amazes me people blast the CA for representing the West's views only. People really expect MPs who come from the West to support Ontario's views on matters or something?

The CA would be a national party if the nation voted for it. Canadian voters unfairly label the CA as a regional party BECAUSE no one else votes for it, and thus the regions who DO vote for it get most representation.