Veteran NONE-UNITS

ramses II. · June 4, 2002, 01:48

In a German forum I read about following trick to get Vetran NONE units:
Build a city (on an island, for example), rush build a barracks.
Let the city be conquered by barbs.
After a couple of turns, send a "harvest" ship with a diplo

-> veteran NONE units
What do you think about that?

Rufus T. Firefly · June 4, 2002, 01:58

I'm not sure it would work. I was just reading the "Interesting Observation" thread in Civ2 General, and was reminded that the conquest of a city destroys 1/2 of the city improvements. So there's at least a 50% chance the barracks would be destroyed when the Barbs take the city, right? And, maybe, it's a 100% chance if the barracks are the only improvement. Nice idea though.

ramses II. · June 4, 2002, 02:34

I've found that temples, cathedrals, coliseums, harbors, offshore platforms and so on will be destroyed, but not city walls and barracks and a coastal fortress

Rufus T. Firefly · June 4, 2002, 02:44

Quote:

Originally posted by ramses II.
I've found that temples, cathedrals, coliseums, harbors, offshore platforms and so on will be destroyed, but not city walls and barracks and a coastal fortress

Do you mean when the Barbs take a city, or when anyone does? Because I can assure you that barracks and city walls will go 50% of the time when another civ sacks a city. Maybe it's different with the Barbs.

TCO · June 4, 2002, 11:18

I thought you lost all the improvements if it became a barb city?

Scouse Gits · June 4, 2002, 12:47

Quote:

Originally posted by GP
I thought you lost all the improvements if it became a barb city?

I suspect that is because it would be rare for a competent human player to allow a city with more than a single improvement fall to the barbs

SG[1]

TCO · June 4, 2002, 16:59

stop it with the sneaky mindf*ucks!

I've lost plenty of mid sized cities to a barb. I'm a slut. i'll often leave cities without a single defender...

atawa · June 4, 2002, 17:15

This has always been one of my favourite tricks in SP, bribing barb units is a lot cheaper then bribing other civs.

Scouse Gits · June 5, 2002, 03:26

Quote:

Originally posted by GP
stop it with the sneaky mindf*ucks!

I've lost plenty of mid sized cities to a barb. I'm a slut. i'll often leave cities without a single defender...

... and i thought it was only those ~~stupid~~ entertaining 2x 2x King players that did things like that

SG[1]

Scouse Gits · June 5, 2002, 03:27

.. oh I forgot - they don't play with barbs (too difficult for them?)

SG[1]

Rufus T. Firefly · June 5, 2002, 03:36

Quote:

Originally posted by atawa
This has always been one of my favourite tricks in SP, bribing barb units is a lot cheaper then bribing other civs.

Gotta agree. I'm among those who, mid-game, will cheerfully let a newly-founded city get sacked, just to get the NON unit factory from it.

Alexander's Horse · June 5, 2002, 03:45

Barb cities are great for cheap NON units. Let em grow.

I haven't seen vets.

Scouse Gits · June 5, 2002, 04:01

Quote:

Originally posted by Rufus T. Firefly
Gotta agree. I'm among those who, mid-game, will cheerfully let a newly-founded city get sacked, just to get the NON unit factory from it.

Yes 'newly founded' not one stuffed with expensive improvements ...

SG[1]

Alexander's Horse · June 5, 2002, 04:17

Why not just max out unit and city production? You get NON units from every city once your army gets big enough.

Scouse Gits · June 5, 2002, 04:39

Not once you upgrade to v2.42 you don't and most certainly not on MGE - so what is this - a troll? 0/10 - or am I missing something

SG[1]

rah · June 5, 2002, 10:38

Naw, he's too busy downloading porn during his games to realize that that loophole was closed.

RAH

TCO · June 5, 2002, 11:15

Quote:

Originally posted by Scouse Gits
.. oh I forgot - they don't play with barbs (too difficult for them?)

SG[1]

IN SP, it is not biggie to lose a city once in a while to barbs. Not your capitol or wonder city, mind you...

rah · June 5, 2002, 11:29

In SP, No.

But in MP, it can be a problem. Under the rules set we play, city bribing is not allowed. (but barb cities are an exception) So you don't want one of your opponents to come in and bribe your None Factory. (especially since for it to be a none Factory, it has to be closer to one of their cities)

RAH

Campo · June 5, 2002, 12:57

So what happens if you found a city, build barracks, and then abandon it to approaching Barbs? If you don't leave a defender, could it still lose the barracks? If the barracks remains, are new units vets?

Of course at the next obsolescence point the barracks will be lost, but if you time it right you could bribe NON vets for quite a while.

Scouse Gits · June 5, 2002, 16:35

Barracks obsolescence occurs when the owning player gets a key tech advance - the Barbs don't make many tech advances - yes I too have seen barb advances, but once in a blue moon

SG[1]

Rufus T. Firefly · June 6, 2002, 04:16

Since no one's mentioned it yet -- and since I'm only a few posts away from "Prince"

-- it's also worth pointing out that giving up a new city to become a "Barbarian NON Factory" is especially worthwhile if you have Leo's; that way, you get state-of-the-art units no matter what the Barbs are cranking out.

Scouse Gits · June 6, 2002, 05:23

Congratulations on your father's accession to the throne, Rufus.

SG[1]

Straybow · June 6, 2002, 10:43

If you have Gun and capture a city w/barracks from a non-Gun civ the barracks don't become obsolete. It happened when I bribed Kashgar in Mad 2.42 Succession Game.

In general, only barbs from huts or uprisings are vets. Even if they did get a barracks city it is often difficult to coax them to come out and play without losses among your teasing units. It has been known to work, though.

rah · June 6, 2002, 10:49

I don't know about that. All barb cities produce is units. If I build a fortress with a few defensive units and a diplo 3 squares away with a road to the square in front of the fortress. Every three or four turns I can usually count on an archer, (or whatever unit era wise they're churning out) marching right up to the fortress for easy bribing.

RAH

TCO · June 6, 2002, 13:39

Quote:

Originally posted by Straybow
If you have Gun and capture a city w/barracks from a non-Gun civ the barracks don't become obsolete. It happened when I bribed Kashgar in Mad 2.42 Succession Game.

In general, only barbs from huts or uprisings are vets. Even if they did get a barracks city it is often difficult to coax them to come out and play without losses among your teasing units. It has been known to work, though.

Does it continue to function as a normal barracks? Does it work?

Scouse Gits · June 6, 2002, 15:44

Yes

& Yes

--------------

Two Gits

atawa · June 6, 2002, 17:34

But it still needs 2 gold for maintenence I guess?

Julius Brenzaida · June 8, 2002, 11:29

I see no reason the barracks shouldn't work

I've tried a few times to play as the barbarians. There are a few downfalls : you lose science beakers and gold coins at each turn, so your science depends on a trigger event (explained in the barbarian papers), but you can build improvements and settlers. The Ai is programmed to build only units (see the BP again), so it won't build barracks, but if it's there and is not destroyed in the capture, it should remain.

The only question is that other improvements are not kept, I know that : goodbye your library and all if you recover the city. I don't lose cities to barb enough to be sure, but I believe that city walls and barracks are kept.though

A little testing should answer that more clearly

Mercatia · June 8, 2002, 15:51

Quote:

Originally posted by atawa
But it still needs 2 gold for maintenence I guess?

Barracks are a 1g upkeep. If I can build Adam's Smiths I try to build as many barracks as possible. It cost nothing to run them, all new units are veteran, and when they are sold nice $$ bonus that could be greatly needed when playing later under representative government.

debeest · June 8, 2002, 18:40

Once you get gunpowder, which is likely to happen around the same time as you can build Adam Smith's, your barracks will cost 2 gp/turn, and Adam Smith's won't pay any of that cost.