Pirates

[Der PH]

Sorry, if this has been discussed before, but has anyone seen the AI using privateers?

[V.O.C.'02]

no, never have seen it before. I guess it doesnt work that way. When you attack another civ with a privateer you avoid the chance of having to go to war. But when they attack you, I guess it has the same result as attacking you with a galleon for instance. You will make them suffer for their mistake

At least you've got the possibility to start the war

[Der PH]

Originally posted by V.O.C.'02
But when they attack you, I guess it has the same result as attacking you with a galleon for instance. You will make them suffer for their mistake

Shouldn't their nationality been hidden? Some kind of black flag?

[WarpStorm]

I've used them before. Their nationality is hidden. They are overpriced for the power (even with hidden nationality). I lowered the cost and the computer players still didn't build them. I don't think it is hard-coded not to build privateers, I just think that hidden nationality isn't factored into the cost/benefit equation.

[Jethro83]

I think that it is mostly because the AI sucks at building up and deploying a navy. Try and mod a ground unit to have hidden nationality, and the AI will swamp you with them, conquering you without even precipitating a war. Don't make any ground units with hidden nationality. It just gives Gandhi a new toy with which he can be the sneaky, conniving b@stard he is.

[Der PH]

Originally posted by LordAzreal
I think that it is mostly because the AI sucks at building up and deploying a navy.

Well, I've seen nice navy tactics by the AI. Carriers protected by battleships and destroyers attacking my invasion force and retreating to their next harbour when my battleships arrived.

Originally posted by LordAzreal
Don't make any ground units with hidden nationality.

I actually toyed with the idea of doing this. You tried it?

[Jethro83]

Originally posted by Der PH


Well, I've seen nice navy tactics by the AI. Carriers protected by battleships and destroyers attacking my invasion force and retreating to their next harbour when my battleships arrived.

All I've seen of them (I'm playing 1.21 BTW) is a heap of galleons and frigates roaming around the coast (stupid since 10 turns later you get ironclads), with one or two ironclads and destroyers. I've yet to see intelligent naval operations carried out by the AI. But I'll keep looking for examples like yours.

I actually toyed with the idea of doing this. You tried it?

Yes. I've tried it, and heard testimonials from others who have also tried it. As I said, it serves as nothing more than a christmas present for the 'gracious' Mahatma to use against you without actually starting all out war.

[Moonsinger]

I don't build privateers because they are so weak and useless. When was the last time you attack someone with a privateer ship and win? That probably the same reason why AI don't use it. Since AI is nothing but a computer program coded by human just like us, their thinking are similar to us.

[Der PH]

Originally posted by LordAzreal
stupid since 10 turns later you get ironclads

The techs for frigates and ironclads are too close together in the original game. I modified the tech tree to get galleons and frigates much earlier.

Originally posted by LordAzreal
Yes. I've tried it, and heard testimonials from others who have also tried it. As I said, it serves as nothing more than a christmas present for the 'gracious' Mahatma to use against you without actually starting all out war.

Thanx for the warning!

[planetfall]

Privateers are ok, but best if add one attack in editor. You just have to realize it will take 2 or 3 to take out an ironclad with the mod. Have not tried with default power, but assume it will take 3-4 privateers.

They work super vs galleys, and fair against caravels. Galleons seem to be as hard to get as ironclads. More modern opponents, forget it. Then only value is to lift the fog or sucker into position for counter strike.

Again used best for
1- slowing early expansion by galleys
2- gang tackling naval blockade runners and hiding under destroyers or BS.

[Der PH]

Originally posted by planetfall
Again used best for
1- slowing early expansion by galleys

When I get privateers, the era of early expansion is a long time ago. In the late medieval age nearly all islands are populated by someone (I'm never playing with less than 12 civs).

[Catt]

Maybe I'm the only one who has used privateers to good effect ? (Okay, only once, in goofy circumstance)

I was playing as Egypt (I think), Regent level (had turned off diplo, cultural and spapceship victories as I wanted to play some modern warfare). Friendly Rome had already declared war on me three times during the course of the game, and paid a heavy price for doing so . While not quite a vassal state, Rome was clearly inferior to my civ. We were almost through the industrial age, not quite into the modern, and I'm preparing my forces to once and for all remove the thorn Rome from my side. But I'm not quite ready to invade just yet. Rome continues to send a pair of submarines into a deep inlet in my territory despite my repeated requests (and demands) to leave. Rome always says it will leave, never does. When forced to leave or declare war, it leaves, then re-enters my territory. Finally decided to use the good old privateer -- built 8 of them, docked in a harbor near Rome's entry point. Next time the sub passed, I attacked and sank it with the privateers! Can't remeber how many I lost, but I did eventually sink it. Only time I have ever used them.

BTW, there is a certain lack of gameplay functionality to privateers. For one thing, since the AI see all units, as soon as a privateer hits the open water, it seems the AIs beeline for it, even from across the world (a terrible exploit). To avoid this, I kept the privateers in my harbor -- this of course should betray the nationality of the civ who built the privateer, but it doesn't.

Finally, IIRC, in a long ago game, could have been v1.16 or 1.17, I did see privateers harrassing a distant island city of mine. Don't know who made them, but it wasn't me.

Catt

Edited for spellling.

[HazieDaVampire]

so they actualy use them before patch? They better make enemy privatiers look some odd colour (or barb colour) so nobody knows whos they are in multiplayer!

[Moonsinger]

Originally posted by HazieDaVampire
so they actualy use them before patch? They better make enemy privatiers look some odd colour (or barb colour) so nobody knows whos they are in multiplayer!

Yes, I have seen AI building them before the patch. However, I haven't yet seen any of them after the patch.

[Arrian]

The AI will no longer hunt your privateers from all over the globe with the 1.21 patch... or at least until it has ironclads.

I occasionally use privateers if I'm really, really strong compared to the AI. They are throw-away units (2/1/3 IIRC) that are capable of sinking galleys, caravels and frigates at a decent rate, on the attack. On defense, they're horrible. This is why you need to have other ships (like caravels of your own) out and about... they will spot the AI frigate coming so that you can move your privateers to a spot which will allow them to attack the frigate before it can attack them. With enough of them (I've built fleets of 25 privateers before) you can wipe out AI navies until they get ironclads.

Of course, there really isn't a compelling reason to do it... but I kinda enjoy it, and it keeps me from getting bored during the high middle ages/early industrial era.

-Arrian

[Harovan]

Some discussions took place, for instance here. Most people find privateers useless. I use them sometimes, but not often. They are very weak.

[Random Passerby]

On a couple ocassions I've had games where magnetism got reached quite a bit before the medieval era ended, which helps make them a little more useful. They're still only really valuable for a few very specific applications; they're nice for defending a weak neighbor that you don't want a rival civ to conquer but aren't prepared for or don't plan on conquering yourself.

[Coracle]

Privateers, and submarines, are a waste of time and I long ago Edited them into more useful units.

In reality, in history, privateers and subs were designed to attack enemy MERCHANT shipping - not enemy warships. I could have a hundred privateers or subs on an enemy's ocean trade routes but it would accomplish NOTHING.

Firaxis does not have the vaguest idea what navies are truly for.
And this is one of the top three or four problems with the game. Even Civ 2 treated navies better; at least with it we had to actually deliver frieight or convoys to a distant port to get the payoff. Doing so was always satisfying, just as it was having a cruiser on patrol sink an enemy convoy. With Civ 3 trade is just a tedious abstraction.

[HazieDaVampire]

would be cool if you could still se the convoys, and would be even better if you've been attacked and your citys no longer produce as much food, and you could buy it off allies. I really want to have to defend convoys of food and oil like in WW2!

[Panag]

Originally posted by WarpStorm
I've used them before. Their nationality is hidden. They are overpriced for the power (even with hidden nationality). I lowered the cost and the computer players still didn't build them. I don't think it is hard-coded not to build privateers, I just think that hidden nationality isn't factored into the cost/benefit equation.

hi ,

they dont have the "hidden nationality" complete , example ; when you set sail with your privateer , and you see a new civ on an other continent , that civ shall contact you , ..........

they should fix this , ....

have a nice day

[Destroyer]

Im sure the ai privateers are still in their civs colours.

[Panag]

Originally posted by Destroyer
Im sure the ai privateers are still in their civs colours.

hi ,

nope , "neutral gray" , .......

have a nice day