V 1.21 trainer do any exist???

[Apocalypse]

Walkthroughs can be bad if you rely completely on them. Just combine what seems good in them with what you already know works well.

[Panag]

Originally posted by Apocalypse
Walkthroughs can be bad if you rely completely on them. Just combine what seems good in them with what you already know works well.

hi ,

please explain more clearly ,..........

have a nice day

[Apocalypse]

Well, if you follow a walkthrough to the letter you aren't learning that much. It is better if you think about the whole picture. Think about why the author of the walkthrough is doing what he or she did. This allows you to see flaws or openings where you can add other strategies to the walkthrough. This can help make you a more independent player so you won't need people to hold your hand later on in gaming.

[Panag]

Originally posted by Apocalypse
Walkthroughs can be bad if you rely completely on them. Just combine what seems good in them with what you already know works well.

hi ,

okay , you have a good point , ...

have a nice day

[Nubclear]

Originally posted by dunk999
I've used a couple trainers in my day to get better at what I considered difficult games. Maybe lisdexia is getting clobbered even on cheiftan level.

Why is using a trainer cheating?

Yes, practice is the best teacher. But how many piano students start out playing Beethoven? You start with "Chopsticks" and move on to "Heart & Soul".

And maybe some people like to play games and completely clobber the AI. Sometimes it's a fun way to vent some frustration.

Panag, Solver, let me ask you something... Have you ever used a walkthrough or a strategy guide to help your play? If you have, lay off people who want trainers. If not, hats off to you for figuring out every game on your own. You've read Vel's strategy thread, which I would consider a walkthrough. Cheaters. nya nya nya nya nya

Yes, I am in complete and total agreement.

Civilization III, I would assume, is for fun. It's not for some military training, it's not trying to teach you how to use a computer...It's a game. If the way you have fun with a game is through trainers, then by all means obtain one and have fun. Me telling you that trainers make the game less fun is like me telling you that politics is better than working at wherever you work.

And yes, if you've used a stragedy guide you are guilty of the same thing. You looked into a guide for help in order to win, or to gain some advantage so that you can enjoy your game more. This is unfair to the computer player, or the player you're going up against. What if he hasn't read that guide? You just gained an unfair advantange that you didn't learn on your own while playing the game. That itself could be considered cheating. Or if you've read strategies ANYWHERE.

Do I personally derive some satisfaction from beating the game without cheats or trainers? Yes I do, but can I say that for the guy two blocks down the street? Can I say he even plays video games? No I can't. Only he can say that. He is a seperate living entity from me, he's a seperate conciousness from that of my own, so therefore he has formulated his own opinions and ways of living.

I admit I sometimes use cheats on Perfect Dark. Why do I do such a thing? Because sometimes after a long day at the office, it just feels good to get all that energy out without getting killed (Which would just frustrate me further).

So, lay off the people whom use trainers. They would probably rather enjoy their game instead of have a tedious job every time they load it up. I enjoy challenges (usually), others may not or they might find the game too hard.

Yes, playing over and over will teach you how to play the game. But must we forget why we even play? We want some form of entertainment.

The only time when I find cheating not acceptable is if its against other human players who do not want to cheat. And I will play against someone whom uses trainers, just as long as he or she assures me he/she will not use them in multiplayer. Only if I catch them doing it will I leave, and never play with them again.

But, now I am beginning to repeat my arguements over and over again. So, I shall end this post......

Tassadar

[dunk]

Originally posted by Solver
Dunk, I can't agree with you. I consider walkthroughs and trainers a completely different thing. Strategy guides teach what to do; reading strategies is part of the proccess. Trainers, however, are modifying some bits in the memory/whatever that let you do whatever you want in an unfair way. That's it. Now, if I know that a person is using trainers, I will refuse to play him in MP. It's my philosophy, it might be wrong, but to me, if someone wants to cheat, I can't be certain he won't try to cheat when playing me.

And BTW... while I'm reading strats for Civ 3, I started with Civ 1 without reading anything, of course (Internet way back there?). And for most other games I played, whatever little I have, I almost never used a guide, too. Oh, and I have never activated the cheat mode .

I wouldn't play against someone using a trainer in a MP game either. That is definately cheating. But that's something you discuss before the game begins, so what's the problem?

If I want to use a trainer while I'm playing SP, what's it matter to you?

[Apocalypse]

You are forgetting an important point: We're doing this for your sake. You will get much more satisfaction from beating the game justly than when you cheat.

[Panag]

Originally posted by Apocalypse
You are forgetting an important point: We're doing this for your sake. You will get much more satisfaction from beating the game justly than when you cheat.

hi ,

you put it nice , ....

and you can beat the AI , even at deity , .....

have a nice day

[dojoboy]

Originally posted by Solver
If you want trainers, you are a cheater. Go away.

What is a trainer? How does it enable cheating?

[Panag]

Originally posted by dojoboy


What is a trainer? How does it enable cheating?

hi ,

a cheat , that lets you start with lets say 10000000 gold , or so , or where you can go back on you moves , see the whole map , free intelligence , and so on ...

bad stuff , ...

its better to learn to play the right way , without cheating

have a nice day

[dunk]

Originally posted by Apocalypse
You are forgetting an important point: We're doing this for your sake. You will get much more satisfaction from beating the game justly than when you cheat.

Thanks mommy.

Can I go play with Billy now?

Just being a smartass.

[Apocalypse]

Don't you ever compare me to a parental figure again.

I'm just a really nice guy. It is like when a friend tells a guy that the girl that he is dating looks like his mom, thus preventing a really disturbing scenario later on.

[Asmodean]

Solver, Apocalypse:

What an incredible arrogance you guys are showing. Yes, I can understand that you wouldn't like to play MP games with a person using a trainer, but to try to dictate how other people can have their fun is just lower than low.

Who are you to decide how they play their games??? I am just not getting it. I refuse to believe that you in your hearts know what they find funny. (Unless off course that you can read their minds, another thing I refuse to believe).

I use a trainer, occasionally, and I have used the editor to tweak certain things (things, BTW, that count for the computer players as well) and I have my fun that way. And I wil never, ever, engage in an MP game (other than perhaps a hot-seat game with my younger brother), so may I please use my trainers and my editors without you guys pestering me about it???

GET OFF MY BACK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Asmodean

PS. and then off course there is the fact that the poster asking about the trainer was a newbie. Please don't use that attitude with anybody on these boards, especially newbies.

[Apocalypse]

1. All my comments in this thread about cheating were ment to be helpful, and that is how I tried to make them come off as.
2. I'm not trying to dictate how people have fun. I am saying how they will have more fun, or at least feel like they accomplished more if they are the type of person who is incapable of having fun.
3. I'm not bashing the use of editors. Like I said earlier, if the computer gets the same advantage/disadvantage as you, then that is not cheating.

P.S. If you really want me to, I'll stop my helpful attitude. The only other attitude I have is one hellbent on revenge. That attitude is not very nice at all.

[Asmodean]

Apocalypse: I just read all your posts in this thread again, and I am afraid I may have misread you the first time around. For that I am truly sorry.

I do feel that my previous post is valid, with regards to Solver, though.

Asmodean

[Apocalypse]

Solver trys to work for the good of all too. He just doesn't come off as nicely. This is odd since I don't really come off as the nice one.

[dunk]

Originally posted by Apocalypse
Don't you ever compare me to a parental figure again.

I'm just a really nice guy. It is like when a friend tells a guy that the girl that he is dating looks like his mom, thus preventing a really disturbing scenario later on.

I was being a smartass, as stated.

Also, I was referring to the remark... "We're doing this for your sake," a common parental statement.

[dunk]

Originally posted by Asmodean
Apocalypse: I just read all your posts in this thread again, and I am afraid I may have misread you the first time around. For that I am truly sorry.

I do feel that my previous post is valid, with regards to Solver, though.

Asmodean

I agree, but I think that it's silly to think negatively about a person because they play a game differently than you do.

[Solver]

I am just being more harsh in my statements, as usually, though I do understand that some people have fun with trainers. It's just my allergy vs. some of them .

Also, original poster has only posted in this thread, so more probably, it's just an usual cheater - another reason why I'm being harsher.

[Apocalypse]

Originally posted by dunk999
I was being a smartass, as stated.

Also, I was referring to the remark... "We're doing this for your sake," a common parental statement.

That remark is in no way limited to parents. I've heard it and comments like it come more times from friends than parents; on TV and in real life.

[SpencerH]

So, can someone use a "trainer" to cheat at CIV-style MP? How would it work, wouldnt you see there units going backward or something? Can you tell if they're using one?

[Panag]

Originally posted by SpencerH
So, can someone use a "trainer" to cheat at CIV-style MP? How would it work, wouldnt you see there units going backward or something? Can you tell if they're using one?

hi ,

yes , yes and yes , but there shall also be programs that can tell you if one is using such a program , ....

in the end , its better not to use any trainer , because the best way to train is , .....to play the game , ...

have a nice day

[SpencerH]

I dont care if someone uses it themselves. I just want to be able to know if someone else is cheating as my mongol hordes are burning their cities to the ground.

[dunk]

Originally posted by Apocalypse

That remark is in no way limited to parents. I've heard it and comments like it come more times from friends than parents; on TV and in real life.

I was only kidding, sheesh.

[Panag]

Originally posted by SpencerH
I dont care if someone uses it themselves. I just want to be able to know if someone else is cheating as my mongol hordes are burning their cities to the ground.

hi ,

the moment the cheats hit the gaming "ground" , o shall the programs that tell you when one uses the cheat , .....

have a nice day

[Apocalypse]

Originally posted by dunk999
I was only kidding, sheesh.

Sorry, that just kinda strikes a nerve with me.

[Solver]

I'll tell you a story about cheating.

I once wrote a good trainer for AoE 2, that avoided the OOS (Out of Synch) error, by acting like this - in-game cheat codes were on for you, off for enemy. People didn't believe me, as trainers were dealt with, so I started a few games with some friends I played with, and I came over them with huge hordes of units, by cheating.

Then, I was asked to show it to the world, proving it's actually so, and even release the source (!). I refused. I said that I don't want it to be in hands of some bastards spoiling the fun, and then many appreciated my decision. Recorded games were there as a proof, though.

Soon there came out another AoE 2 hack, not by me, proving that I did actually do my trainer.

Just a story...

[dunk]

Originally posted by Apocalypse

Sorry, that just kinda strikes a nerve with me.

Gotcha. No worries.

[Panag]

Originally posted by Solver
I'll tell you a story about cheating.

I once wrote a good trainer for AoE 2, that avoided the OOS (Out of Synch) error, by acting like this - in-game cheat codes were on for you, off for enemy. People didn't believe me, as trainers were dealt with, so I started a few games with some friends I played with, and I came over them with huge hordes of units, by cheating.

Then, I was asked to show it to the world, proving it's actually so, and even release the source (!). I refused. I said that I don't want it to be in hands of some bastards spoiling the fun, and then many appreciated my decision. Recorded games were there as a proof, though.

Soon there came out another AoE 2 hack, not by me, proving that I did actually do my trainer.

Just a story...

hi ,

naughty boy , .......

so no one believed that you wrote it hé , .....
how long before someone wrote a program that told the other players that someone was using a "trainer" , ...

have a nice day

[Solver]

Actually, cheat protection is an important part of the game. If none is included, it can spoil the game, a la CtP.