Refitted Tech Tree/Facility/SP Proposal:

Marid Audran · June 5, 2002, 00:35

Chiron. The final frontier.

These are apolytoners of the U.N.S. Unity. Their continuing mission: To explore strange new AI configurations... to eke out more life in the SP game... to boldly alter the alpha.txt where no one has gone before!

Anyway, I've been brainstorming some ideas on addressing some gameplay issues. It's snowballed into a veritable re-juggling of many facility, unit ability, and SP allocation rights throughout the tech tree. It's been heavily motivated by Ned's various AI enchancements and Vel's "Torture Mod" that he worked on a year ago, to specifically raise the bar on all the jaded Transcend SMAC experts who knew all the perfect strategies and could beat the AI with their eyes closed. My aim isn't actually to make things "torturous" for the player as much as to tinker with various imbalances and game-breaking techs. For reference, this includes SMAX.

Planetary Transit System: Moved to Doctrine: Mobility. Widely regarded as a weak SP due to its lateness in the game (damning for an early game SP), it's now available among first-tier techs to jump-start colonization campaigns for those who put in the effort.

Planetary Datalinks: Moved to Planetary Networks. Also regarded as an inferior SP. Human players are rarely behind in tech enough for its effects to make a difference, ipso facto, it's built usually to "deny" AI players rights. Moved to the early SPs the Datalinks may now be worthing building, especially for a faction like the Believers.

Virtual World: Moved up to Cyberethics. Arguably the most coveted SP in the game won't be lessoned in worth coming later. Free holotheatres (which have expensive upkeep) are always bliss. Make Zak struggle a little longer for this one.

Holotheaters: Moved to Optical Computers. Done to put some incentive in researching a typically "dead" intermediary tech, and to continue to tame Planetary Networks.

Subsea Trunkline: Moved to Adaptive Doctrine. Try to get those seabases' mineral production up and running a tad sooner, since (other than Pirate) sea bases have trouble in this arena.

Robotic Assembly Plant: Moved to Industrial Automation. There are no less than four mineral amplifiers in-game, but three of them come too late to make much difference; I always build Genejack Factories (and sometimes not even them). Here's an alternative. There's still considerable appeal in Genejacks, though they're three tech lines up, because they're cheaper to build and cheaper to maintain. It's a decision betwixt cost-efficiency and early industrial boost. Gives the AI a chance to boost their own to boot.

Sealurk: Moved to Bioadaptive Resonance. Great little unit, better at ramming sea bases than Isles of the Deep; pity they're available so late.

Ascetic Virtues: Moved to Adaptive Economics. It switches places with...

Planetary Energy Grid: ...which is moved to Planetary Economics. I feel like this SP is as powerful and reaps benefits on a level equivolent of the Virtual World, so it doesn't hurt for it to switch places with another SP a tier up. I think this tech assignment of these two makes more sense as well.

Citizen: Thinker: Moved to Applied Relativity. Mostly to give a small boost to another "dead tech," since they come a little late to compete much with empaths and engineers as they are now.

Clean reactors: Moved to Nanominiaturization. One of the most coveted unit abilities in the game now takes a little more work to obtain. This deters the Support society effect becoming obsolete. Bio-Engineering loses its luster, but you'll still want it for Retroviral Engineering.

Cloudbase Academy: Moved to Advanced Spaceflight. An extremely sought-after SP for obvious reasons; Vel goes on to say it's obscenely unbalanced. I personally think the Cyborg Factory is more powerful, but I think bumping this SP two tiers, and out of MMI's bloated clutches, is a good thing.

Tachyon Field: Moved to Photon/Wave Mechanics. Boosts another weak intermediary tech, and fortifies typically overmatched defences in-game, which can't help to stand against hordes of Fusion and Shard troops.

Algorithmic Enchancement: and

Nethack Terminus: Both moved to Probability Mechanics. This unit ability, and this wonder, are meant to prevent the Hunter-Seeker Algorithim from "shutting down to probe game entirely" but tend to come a bit late, particularly Nethack, to make much of a dent anyway. Here, within arm's reach of Pre-Sentient Algorithims, puts anyone at risk.

Carrier Deck: and

Repair Bay: Now both moved to the Mind/Machine Interface. Vel often remarked about the navy being the "weak leg" of SMAC, primarily because these two vital abilities were available so late in-game and dreams of Needlejet Carriers are dashed. Now they're available earlier to make those cruisers more menacing.

Cyborg Factory: Bumped to Biomachinery. Such a highly coveted SP, as with Cloudbase, doesn't hurt being bumped a notch. Wait 'til the "full integration of man and machine" takes place tech-wise until one can build this.

Cloning Vats: Bumped to Homo Superior. A game-breaking SP to some, so it should be a delayed until a paradigm for the "ubermensch of the future" is developed and Santiago mass produces her Spartan brood.

The Universal Translator: Transferred over to Centauri Psi. For the world of me I don't understand why this wonder is paired up with Homo Superior, especially since it (purportedly) has to do with unlocking the language and culture of Chiron, the xenofungus, and progenitor artifacts. It makes more sense in tandem with a Centauri tech of the same tech tree level.

Fuel Nanocells: Moved to Nanometallurgy, to round out the now denuded tech, which represents this and the Deep Pressure Hull.

Nanoreplicators: Moved to Industrial Nanorobotics, mostly to fill the void that Robotic Assembly Plants left.

Bulk-Matter Transfer: Moved to Matter Compression. Previously this SP was almost a hazard for most players, giving birth to numerous eco-pops and various ecological hell. You typically built it for the SMAC score, and nothing else, very very late in the game. Now, depending on the state of your mineral production by this point, this SP may have a place.

and lastly,

Plasma Shards: Moved to Super Tensile Solids, and assigned an attack value of 14. I've always thought weapon values in-game exponationally outweighed and dwarfed the defensive values in-game. Plasma Shards are a perfect example of weapon values at their mid-game zenith without even needing to research Silksteel Alloys. And with special abilities like Soporific Gas Pods and Dissociative Wave, things have become tougher than ever for the defenders. I've had plenty of games where, depending on the tech lines being researched, Impact, Gatling, Missle, and Chaos weapons have all had their fair shake and dominance. But Fusion rarely sticks around when Plasma Shards are so close, and Tachyon Bolts are totally redundant. Moving Plasma Shards up fills the gap between Tachyon and Quantum Lasers a bit more meaningfully and gives Fusion and Tachyon a bit more shelf life.

There was some other niggling stuff on my mind, like should the Singularity Inductor and Manifold Harmonics come sooner, the fact that Quantum and Singularity chambers are too close together, should Paradise Guardens and Temples of Planet come sooner, but finally I said "fuggit." I'd done enough modifications, and besides, something had to be left for the upper echelons of the tech tree.

I desperately hope this will help bolster the values of the often lagging "left side" of the tech tree (with most of the defensive techs), as represented by the SMAX poster, since most players (including myself) I know tend to neglect researching them in favor of all the goodies on the right side, with all their Centauri, terraforming, and economic boons. Anyway, THESE ARE MY PROPOSALS! I thought I'd upload my whole paradigm of changes before I attend the gruelling task of assaulting the alphax.txt to implement them. Comments are welcome, whether you think any of these are a good idea or otherwise unreasonable, etc. Intuitively I'm sure, with the Pacifist/Tech/Build/Growth emphasis of the AI and a free former, that SMAC SP has more life in it yet.

Hercules · October 15, 2002, 21:28

Very interesting thread. as you've already noted looked at by many with no comment. I presume you've also brought your ideas on games to the Stella Polaris game development.

It would be interesting to try your modified alpha .txt but like many perhaps I hate messing around with that stuff.

Marid Audran · October 16, 2002, 03:06

True Hercules, you do have to want to tinker with game mechanics, and trust your own judgement (purity be damned). I also play with modified faction files, to that end. There was some other stuff of note: I reinstated drop pods to MM/I, but bumped the Cyborg Factory to Biomachinery, bumped the Cloning Vats to Homo Superior, and transfered the Universal Translator to Centauri Psi. After all these changes took place I also had to change the base values of a lot of the techs in the AIs's mind (conquer vs. explore vs. discover vs. build values), and also did some minute edits of mineral costs to build and upkeep certain facilities/SPs.

My biggest concern was remaining true to the logic of the tech tree, so that the alterations didn't seem incongruent with their new assignments. Genejack Factories paired with Optical Computers, for instance, doesn't make sense to me, even if it helps balance the game. I think I did a good job overall; Plasma Shard weapons are probably the biggest offenders, but there weren't many other places to fit them as a stopgap before Quantum Lasers.

Clear Skies · October 16, 2002, 04:36

These modifications sound fantastic! Being the very-low-grade techie that I am, can I beg for the alpha.txt file?
Thanks.

MRT144 · October 16, 2002, 04:45

except for the first two i think that this could be a good and interesting change...

i think if the planetary transit system was moved to flexibility, it would prevent this as being the first SP to be saught after...it really is a good SP early in the game, but not too early considering the owner could expand more rapidly then i think would be balanced.

as for the datalinks, id leave it where it is. if its there too early it presents a problem for the early game when everyone is trading techs with each other. you probably wouldnt have to reasearch more than 2 of the bottom tier of techs yourself if you had this(and you werent trading yourself)...university would surely be a shoe in to get this most the time

Velociryx · October 16, 2002, 14:15

Outstanding ideas, the lot of them!

-=Vel=-

PS: It's been a while, but IIRC, the main reason I think that Cloudbase wins out over Cyborg is this: (2 extra attacks per chopper * number of choppers in your fleet....OUCH!)

*disclaimer: because it HAS been a while, I'm not rightly sure if the 2-extra moves that project gives applies to JUST needle jets, or choppers too. Intuitively, I'd say both, and so, stick by my obscenely overpowered claim, but in all honesty, I can't recall!

Old age strikes at last!

-V.

Method · October 16, 2002, 15:49

wow! that's really good! i especially like the shards part since, tachyon as it is gets neglected totally, and fusion is only around for 5 years at best. great job!

Marid Audran · October 16, 2002, 15:51

I edited my original post to reflect all the updated modifications.

MRT144, I think the danger of the Planetary Transit System becoming too sought-after is worth the risk of making it a worthwhile endeavor; it may come down to a choice betwixt it and the Weather Paradigm, which everyone typically wants their paws on. As for the Datalinks, the problem with leaving it be at Cyberethics is that, well, it's pretty much useless there, sans denying the AI its benefits. Thanks for your feedback...but I've tested these changes in-game many times over.

Clear Skies, I've uploaded the alphax.txt file so you may peruse it at will (hope you have SMAX). In it are also some custom units of mine, that regrettably fail to show up on the pre-designed lists.

Remember to edit the NEWFACTIONS list so that the progenitor factions show up as usual; as is I was using two custom factions, the Agrarians of Ceres, and the Nautilus Mercantile, in their stead.

Ogie Oglethorpe · October 16, 2002, 16:42

CBA gives + 2 moves to both noodles and choppas. As I normally don't build gravships (game is normally well in hand before they come into play) I can't say if they also get teh move bonus but as they are an air unit I would suspect they also get +2 moves.

OTOH IIRC locusts don't get the bonus move and I believe the game treats them as gravship chassis so perhaps not.

Ogie Oglethorpe · October 16, 2002, 16:43

Terminated Clone Post.......

End Transmission ........

Cybergod · October 17, 2002, 14:13

very good ideas! but why not post in the creation forum...

Method · October 17, 2002, 15:36

because that forum is dead

big_canuk · October 17, 2002, 16:59

I disagree with moving the PTS. If your goal is to make it earlier, then leave it at IA. In my games more than 1/2 the time I get IA before D:Flex. Take out the games I play Dee, and it is 90% of the time!!

bc

Sarxis · October 18, 2002, 10:19

I went ahead and did a lot of your suggested changes for SMAC.

Some good ideas here.

Marid Audran · October 18, 2002, 17:50

Thanks Anunikoba, and rest of ye for your praise. If just one other could be convinced to use my mod then I feel validated.

If Vel can poke his Candle'bred head in to rubber-stamp approval then I think I'm on to something.

Kirov · October 19, 2002, 18:20

I'd like to comment some changes, as I find them very interesting.

Quote:

Originally posted by Marid Audran

Planetary Transit System: Moved to Doctrine: Mobility. Widely regarded as a weak SP due to its lateness in the game (damning for an early game SP), it's now available among first-tier techs to jump-start colonization campaigns for those who put in the effort.

I agree, as for SP game, PTS is too late in my opinion, tho AFAIK, there are many players here saying it's very good SP. I've noticed only that it's useful while conquering small enemy bases (due to drone suppressing), but nothing more.

Quote:

Planetary Datalinks: Moved to Planetary Networks. Also regarded as an inferior SP. Human players are rarely behind in tech enough for its effects to make a difference, ipso facto, it's built usually to "deny" AI players rights. Moved to the early SPs the Datalinks may now be worthing building, especially for a faction like the Believers.

This project is not worth even considering in SP game, regardless of the cost.

Quote:

Virtual World: Moved up to Cyberethics. Arguably the most coveted SP in the game won't be lessoned in worth coming later. Free holotheatres (which have expensive upkeep) are always bliss. Make Zak struggle a little longer for this one.

Interesting... VW is indeed a very good SP, but note it's also very expensive at this stage of the game. I think that moving it to Cyberethics should be done along with further increasing the cost, to save the idea of relatively high cost.

Quote:

Holotheaters: Moved to Optical Computers. Done to put some incentive in researching a typically "dead" intermediary tech, and to continue to tame Planetary Networks.

Very interesting change. I agree that Opt Com are rather useless tech, and Plan Net are too good. I consider the fact that Datatech begins with Plan Net as a big abuse in terms of game balance.

Quote:

Robotic Assembly Plant: Moved to Industrial Automation. There are no less than four mineral amplifiers in-game, but three of them come too late to make much difference; I always build Genejack Factories (and sometimes not even them). Here's an alternative. There's still considerable appeal in Genejacks, though they're three tech lines up, because they're cheaper to build and cheaper to maintain. It's a decision betwixt cost-efficiency and early industrial boost. Gives the AI a chance to boost their own to boot.

Many very good buildings come to late be seriously considered, it's not only the question of mineral amplifiers - Nanohospital, for instance. Of course your change is ok, but there also other changes one should consider - tell me, who have built Quantum Lab recently?

Quote:

Sealurk: Moved to Bioadaptive Resonance. Great little unit, better at ramming sea bases than Isles of the Deep; pity they're available so late.

I have never used SL, because they're available so late...

Quote:

Ascetic Virtues: Moved to Adaptive Economics. It switches places with...

Planetary Energy Grid: ...which is moved to Planetary Economics. I feel like this SP is as powerful and reaps benefits on a level equivolent of the Virtual World, so it doesn't hurt for it to switch places with another SP a tier up. I think this tech assignment of these two makes more sense as well.

I have even considered cancelling PEG, along with CBA, but I have just increased the cost of both (that's my way to make some things harder to achieve).

Quote:

Citizen: Thinker: Moved to Applied Relativity. Mostly to give a small boost to another "dead tech," since they come a little late to compete much with empaths and engineers as they are now.

Thinkers are very good to me, I use them often.

Quote:

Clean reactors: Moved to Nanominiaturization. One of the most coveted unit abilities in the game now takes a little more work to obtain. This deters the Support society effect becoming obsolete. Bio-Engineering loses its luster, but you'll still want it for Retroviral Engineering.

Very good change! I disagree with you statement that clean makes Support obsolete (clean units are more expensive), but nonetheless it's salvation for builders factions.

Quote:

Cloudbase Academy: Moved to Advanced Spaceflight. An extremely sought-after SP for obvious reasons; Vel goes on to say it's obscenely unbalanced. I personally think the Cyborg Factory is more powerful, but I think bumping this SP two tiers, and out of MMI's bloated clutches, is a good thing.

Cyborg Factory is NOT more powerful. As mentioned above, I had only increased the cost of CBA.

Quote:

Tachyon Field: Moved to Photon/Wave Mechanics. Boosts another weak intermediary tech, and fortifies typically overmatched defences in-game, which can't help to stand against hordes of Fusion and Shard troops.

Hmm... I should test that change, it can be very good. And BTW, what do you think about those new SMAX defence facilities ( I don't remember exact names)?

Quote:

Algorithmic Enchancement: and

Nethack Terminus: Both moved to Probability Mechanics. This unit ability, and this wonder, are meant to prevent the Hunter-Seeker Algorithim from "shutting down to probe game entirely" but tend to come a bit late, particularly Nethack, to make much of a dent anyway. Here, within arm's reach of Pre-Sentient Algorithims, puts anyone at risk.

Agreed. Algorithmic Enhancement is very good (HS was IMHO unbalanced previously), it just comes too late.

Quote:

Carrier Deck: and

Repair Bay: Now both moved to the Mind/Machine Interface. Vel often remarked about the navy being the "weak leg" of SMAC, primarily because these two vital abilities were available so late in-game and dreams of Needlejet Carriers are dashed. Now they're available earlier to make those cruisers more menacing.

One of the most important change. I have also moved that abilities (IIRC to Adv Mil Alg). I remember I have once considered moving it even into Doc:Init...

Quote:

Cloning Vats: Bumped to Homo Superior. A game-breaking SP to some, so it should be a delayed until a paradigm for the "ubermensch of the future" is developed and Santiago mass produces her Spartan brood.

I also consider CV as game-breaking SP, as least if one also have Hab Dome (which comes too late in my opinion and should be moved down).

Quote:

Fuel Nanocells: Moved to Nanometallurgy, to round out the now denuded tech, which represents this and the Deep Pressure Hull.

Wow, I could even start considering usage of Nanocells...

Most of your changes are OK, tho some of them are... needless (moving Universal Translator, for instance). But keep doing what you do and keep informing us about it. Good job!

Kirov · October 19, 2002, 18:28

I'd also like to comment Cloudbase Academy, esp comparing with Cyborg Factory. Tho the latter gives simply +2 bonus morale, CBA gives _Aerospace Complex_ at every base, and that's IMHO one of the best and must-have facilities, because:

1. It gives bonus +2 morale to flying units.
2. Greatly increases effectiveness of any satellites launched.
3. Gives +100% bonus while defending against air attacks in that base.
4. Prevents airdrops in squares near the base.

Which other facility has so many functions?

Alinestra Covelia · October 20, 2002, 15:07

Does anybody know how to edit improvements in the game? I always thought it was odd how you need a command center to give you land veterans, but an additional defense perimeter to give you a defense bonus.

Why shouldn't air units need two improvements for vet and defense bonus too?

Mongoose · October 20, 2002, 16:14

The same could be said for naval units. Naval yard gives a morale upgrade to naval units built there and a defensive bonus to naval attack or bombardment.

Recall also that a Perimeter is a prerequisite for a Tachyon Field. The Command Center, Aerocomplex and Naval Yard don't serve that purpose.

Perhaps Command Centers are just too weak!