Alberta is rich with oil, but what has it got to show for it?

[Asher]

Alberta's royalty revenues are less because the Federal Government scrapes off 70% of them to go to equalization payments, blackice. Alaska doesn't have that, do they?!

[blackice]

That is a complete and blatant lie.

That just concludes your complete lack of polical history, federally.
The rest is simply politically above your head again...

[Asher]

Let me repeat what you said:

Interesting to point out the oil sands and all your power generating abilities came from the NEP funds.

The NEP created the Alberta Oil Sands?

The NEP funded every single power generating facility in Alberta?



You vote NDP, don't you? Comon, fess up.

[blackice]

For example, between 1992 and 1997 the Alaska government collected about 1.6 times more in royalties and other fees from each barrel of oil and gas produced than Alberta. During the same period, the Norwegian government collected 2.7 times more per barrel than Alberta.

The Parkland Institute estimates that if the current Alberta government had collected revenue from oil and gas companies at the same rate as the Lougheed government, resource revenue would have been about $3.78 billion higher per year between 1992 and 1997. If royalties and other fees had been assessed at the same rate as Alaska, the Alberta government would have brought in an extra $2.0 billion per year and if they followed the lead of Norway, they would have brought in $5.7 billion more per year.

The study points out that if this extra revenue had been collected, the debate over cuts to public services like health care and education would probably have been radically different.

"The potential revenues that might have accrued to Alberta coffers had Alberta pursued rent collection at the Alaska and Norway benchmark rates could have made a significant difference to Alberta's revenue picture," reads the report. "Had such an analysis of energy rents been available, the nature of the budgetary debates since 1993 would certainly have led to different outcomes."

Back to if they did they would pay more in equalization payments is this why Klien choose this route?

[Tingkai]

Originally posted by Asher

We can drill what we want. We have the rights to our oil.

The problem is Canada takes our money and doesn't even say "thank you".

It is not just your oil. The oil is in Albeta, but it is also in Canada. So some of the wealth should be spread to all Canadians, not just the ones who choose to move to Alberta.

The oil really belongs to the company that buys the land, spends the money and takes the risk on exploration and development costs and then pumps it out of the ground.

If you say, oh we'll seperate, then what's to stop the people north of Red Deer, for example. from saying they want to form a new country called Northern Alberta. What's to stop the people around Lethbridge from saying they want to create their own mini-country. It's a slippery slope when you want to create a mini-country just for the sake of the resources that are in a particular area.

[blackice]

Originally posted by Asher
Let me repeat what you said:

Quote:

Interesting to point out the oil sands and all your power generating abilities came from the NEP funds.

The NEP created the Alberta Oil Sands?

The NEP funded every single power generating facility in Alberta?



You vote NDP, don't you? Comon, fess up.

Your ignorance is astounding!

[blackice]

Originally posted by Asher

We can drill what we want. We have the rights to our oil.

The problem is Canada takes our money and doesn't even say "thank you".

Hard to say thank you to someone who says "here is a buck get a job you lazy ass"

[Tingkai]

Those are interesting stats Blackice.

Another point is Canadians should be paying more at the pump for gas. That would discourage people from buying gas guzzling vehicles that use up a non-renewable resource and that are environmentally unfriendly.

I'm not saying the price of gas should be jacked up overnight, but a steady increase in gas prices, at a rate that doesn't harm the economy, would be beneficial in the long run.

[Asher]

Originally posted by blackice
Your ignorance is astounding!

Is it?

How did the NEP create the Oil Sands when Great Canadian Oil Sands Ltd (now Suncor) began production of tar sands north of Fort McMurray in 1967?

It is not just your oil. The oil is in Albeta, but it is also in Canada. So some of the wealth should be spread to all Canadians, not just the ones who choose to move to Alberta.

No, that's not correct.
In 1930 the Federal Government of Canada transferred all Mineral Rights to the Provincial Governments of the Western provinces.

If you say, oh we'll seperate, then what's to stop the people north of Red Deer, for example. from saying they want to form a new country called Northern Alberta. What's to stop the people around Lethbridge from saying they want to create their own mini-country. It's a slippery slope when you want to create a mini-country just for the sake of the resources that are in a particular area.

If Alberta becomes its own country and RedDeer & Area feels they aren't getting the attention they deserve, then why should they be stopped from making their own country?

Its their call as to whether it can work or not.

[blackice]

1974: Syncrude became a joint public-private venture, sponsored by Esso Resources, Gulf Canada, Canada Cities Service, Hudson's Bay Oil and Gas, and the Alberta and Canadian governments. Construction of the Syncrude plant at a site near the Suncor (G.C.O.S.) plant north of Fort McMurray took 4 years to complete. Canadian Bechtel Co., handled most of the construction. The plant was initially licensed to produce 125,000 barrels of oil per day.

In general, relations with the United States during Trudeau's last term remained difficult. The Americans were furious when Canada introduced the National Energy Policy (NEP) in 1980, which sought to establish 50 percent Canadian ownership of the oil industry by 1990. Ideologically, the pro-free enterprise Republican administration did not like direct government involvement in the economy. More importantly, the NEP discriminated in favour of Canadian companies.

Washington feared that restrictions on U.S. ownership in the energy sector would threaten America's energy security, a subject on which the Americans were extremely touchy. To the Americans, Canada was acting like a troublesome and unreliable Third World country. Although the Canadian government backtracked slightly under a barrage of American criticism, the essential elements of the NEP remained in place.

Just a tid bit of what they do not teach you out there...why you tell me...

[blackice]

Yes it is astounding

[Asher]

Um. blackice, that's all general knowledge...

Alberta knows all about the NEP. It's the other provinces that are generally clueless to its details.

[Asher]

For the love of God how can you be so STUPID?

[blackice]

Oh and by the way the oil sands project is over 200 years old. Nice back peddling.

[Asher]

Originally posted by blackice
Oh and by the way the oil sands project is over 200 years old. Nice back peddling.

YOU were the one that said the NEP created the Oil Sands!

Tar sands were discovered in 1778...
By Peter Pond. At Athabasca and Clearwater Rivers, Alberta

[blackice]

Stupid you have been crowned You have no idea why the nep was put in place. You still obviously believe the alberta government propaganda it was there to hurt albertains. Now you claim it is common knowledge to post what I did which is way different then your typical whinning. You win the crown buddy

Back to way over your head again...

Nice Google search it will take more than that to catch up asher

[Asher]

Oh my God, you HAVE to be a DL!

[blackice]

Rather a dl then dull

[Asher]

No, you're a dull DL.

[blackice]

asher: How did the NEP create the Oil Sands when Great Canadian Oil Sands Ltd (now Suncor) began production of tar sands north of Fort McMurray in 1967?

Who helped fund it asher you? alberta? canada? ontarians? scotians? we all did dummy now klein says thanks see ya....

[Asher]

You do know that the NEP was put in place in 1980, and 1967 is EARLIER than 1980?

[blackice]

you always resort to stupidity when you get caught being ignorant be nice to know everythibg asher but you don't period just admit like a freeman when you are wrong is all. A smart man says "I did not know that teach me"

[Asher]

I wonder if you're the same guy that maintains the Wiggy and Gian DLs?

[blackice]

Pierre Trudeau was first elected Canada's prime minister in 1968.


Ottawa adopted other policies to promote a stronger and more independent Canada as, ironically, the anti-nationalist Trudeau oversaw the growth of Canadian economic nationalism. In 1971, the Canada Development Corporation, which invested heavily in companies operating in Canada, was established, fulfilling former Finance Minister Walter Gordon's dream of a finding a way of "buying Canada back." Growing economic nationalism, Nixon’s declaration and the government's dependence on the New Democrats led to the introduction of the Foreign Investment Review Agency (FIRA), reflecting the recommendations in a report sponsored by Herb Gray, one of the more nationalist members of Cabinet. FIRA would decide whether foreign acquisitions were in the national interest. Although the delays it produced, and indeed its very existence, angered the Americans, in reality it turned down very few acquisitions.

A secure energy supply was a major concern to the United States, which was dependent on foreign supplies, and Canada's increasingly nationalistic energy policies perturbed the Americans. Canada had become an even more important source of secure energy to the United States following the Arab-Israeli war of 1973 and the subsequent oil embargo imposed by the Organization of Petroleum Exporting Countries.

But the Canadian government had its own concerns about energy self- sufficiency and briefly considered imposing its own embargo on oil exports to the United States. In the end the government did not go that far, but it did impose a tax increase on such exports, over American objections. It also created a large nationally owned oil company, Petro-Canada, to give the government an important presence in the critical petroleum industry. By then, however, the Nixon administration was too deeply embroiled in the Watergate scandal and its own internal crisis to react as strongly as it might have to these developments.


Culture Wars Economic nationalism spilled over into culture, always a sensitive area for Canadians. American cultural exports (second only to agriculture in value for the United States) continued to dominate popular culture in Canada. What Canadians saw as cultural issues, Americans viewed as strictly economic or trade issues, wanting to treat trade in cultural products no differently than trade in any other commodity.

In 1975, the government finally took decisive action against Time and Reader's Digest: they could either adopt a policy of 75 percent Canadian content, or lose their favourable tax exemption on advertising. Reader's Digest chose to Canadianize but Time did not.

In the field of broadcasting, the Canadian Radio-Television Commission was created in 1968 and a set of rules to promote Canadian content was established. Radio had to play 30 percent Canadian music, television had to provide 60 percent (50 percent in prime time) Canadian programming. As well, cable networks, which retransmitted the signals of American stations without compensation, were forced to replace the American broadcast of a program with the corresponding Canadian rebroadcast, complete with Canadian commercials. This policy particularly angered the Americans. The government also sought to promote Canadian movies through the Canadian Film Development Corporation (now Telefilm). How effective these policies were remains a matter of opinion, and of controversy.

What you know and spew about Trudeau is limited ignorance period.

[Asher]

Okay, now you're just spamming the thread.

Where are the mods when you need them?

[blackice]

CANADA BABY YA Not whinny meism.....

[Tingkai]

Originally posted by Asher
No, that's not correct.
In 1930 the Federal Government of Canada transferred all Mineral Rights to the Provincial Governments of the Western provinces.

The fact that provincial government have jurisdiction over mineral rights does not change the fact that the oil is on Canadian territory.

[blackice]

To you knowledge is spamming...yet you spam every thread I do with stupid uninformed non-coherant diatribe. Welcome to O.T.

[Asher]

Originally posted by Tingkai
The fact that provincial government have jurisdiction over mineral rights does not change the fact that the oil is on Canadian territory.

By that logic the Canadian government owns my wristwatch as well?

Alberta has all rights to its oil, legally. Whether it's in Canada or not is irrelevant.

[blackice]

Tingkai only by force as the agreement in writting allows Alberta the rights to resources, and to say "let them freeze in the dark"
Yep with a neighbor like that, friend, family....