Improved City Lists and Leader Lists - Page 2

ranskaldan · June 9, 2002, 12:21

Right....

In progress.

ranskaldan · June 9, 2002, 12:39

Alright, done.

Oh yes, does anyone know if there is an 8-hero limit for each civ?
In Kickasso's thread, such a limit was mentioned, which is why most of the heroes lists have only eight heroes per civ.

Imp. Montezuma · June 9, 2002, 15:55

Quote:

Originally posted by Trip
And you may want to change the Russian leader Kutuzov to Kutusov (as it's normally spelled in English).

Oh no! 'Kutusov' is very wrong. Keep 'Kutuzov'. Please search in Google for Mikhail Illarionovich Kutuzov or for 'Kutuzov' Orden Sign or for city. 'Kutuzov' used to. And 'Kutusov' and 'Kutuzov' are _different_ lastnames.
For Russians Kutusov are very ridiculous, I think.

Jon Shafer · June 9, 2002, 16:22

I'm not Russian, and neither is most of the people who play this game.

In English the name is Kutusov.

Anyways, this, an exerpt from Osprey Military's Austerlitz: Battle of the Three Emperors by David G. Chandler:

"Aged 60, the son of a military engineer, Kutusov's service had begun in the artillery of Catherine the Great. From the gunners he had transferred to the new jaeger formations and had rapidly risen to command that corps. Between 1764 and 1769 he had campaigned with growing distinction in Poland and the Kuraine, and then from 1770 to 1774 in the Crimea against the Turks, during which period he had lost an eye in action. This wound was followed by the receipt of a shot in the head at the siege of Ochakov in 1788, but he recovered from this in time to play a distinguished role in the operations that cleared the Turks from the importatn towns of Odessa, Benda, and Ismail.
...
Today, Kutusov is still regarded with awe and approval in the USSR [written 1990]."

Etc. etc. etc.

Go to google.com, search for Kutuzov and Kutusov. Tell me which you find more accurate hits of.

ranskaldan · June 9, 2002, 16:32

Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't the Cyrillic on the painting read "Kutuzov"?

(And to repeat my question: Is there an 8-hero limit for each civilization?)

Jon Shafer · June 9, 2002, 16:58

No, it says Kymy3ob silly.

Purple · June 9, 2002, 17:02

Despite how some authors may have erroneously spelled it, the proper spelling of the name is Kutuzov. No one who knows the language would ever transliterate Cyrillic z > Roman s. I would question the bona fides of a historian who used the wrong spelling.

Here are the leaders, their names transliterated for that touch of authenticity, that I use for Russia. I'm not an expert on military leaders, but I believe these are well regarded in that respect. People like Lenin and Stalin don't fit this category.

Svyatoslav
Alexandr Nevskii
Dmitrii Donskoi
Ivan Groznyi
Petr Velikii
Alexandr Suvorov
Mikhail Kutuzov
Georgii Zhukov

ranskaldan · June 9, 2002, 17:08

Alright, list has been updated.
Is Petr Velikii = Peter the Great?

Purple · June 9, 2002, 17:11

Yes.

kring · June 9, 2002, 17:13

Use the actual spelling; as it would translate from the language. I agree good historians don't change the names. That would be like taking your name, and changing it to what it would be in another language and calling you that.

Purple · June 9, 2002, 17:15

Some spell it Pyotr to reflect the sound, but in Russian the vowels "ye" and "yo" are considered the same letter. It is pronounced "yo" when stressed.

Imp. Montezuma · June 9, 2002, 17:22

He seems High Gamer. You know. From Fanatics.
http://www.sunbirds.com/lacquer/box/770270
http://uts.cc.utexas.edu/~jrubarth/g...n/Kutuzov.html
http://www.infoplease.com/ce6/people/A0828414.html
http://sangha.net/messengers/kutuzov.htm
http://www.bartleby.com/65/ku/Kutuzov.html
http://www.bartleby.com/61/80/K0118000.html
Not enaugh?
BTW Me as barbarian from moomboo-yoomboo tribe listen names like George Bush as 'zhosh-bosh'.

Imp. Montezuma · June 9, 2002, 17:26

Quote:

Originally posted by Purple
Despite how some authors may have erroneously spelled it, the proper spelling of the name is Kutuzov. No one who knows the language would ever transliterate Cyrillic z > Roman s. I would question the bona fides of a historian who used the wrong spelling.

Here are the leaders, their names transliterated for that touch of authenticity, that I use for Russia. I'm not an expert on military leaders, but I believe these are well regarded in that respect. People like Lenin and Stalin don't fit this category.

Svyatoslav
Alexandr Nevskii
Dmitrii Donskoi
Ivan Groznyi
Petr Velikii
Alexandr Suvorov
Mikhail Kutuzov
Georgii Zhukov

You are right.

Purple · June 9, 2002, 17:27

Quote:

Originally posted by Imp. Montezuma
He seems High Gamer. You know. From Fanatics.

Quote:

BTW Me as barbarian from moomboo-yoomboo tribe listen names like George Bush as 'zhosh-bosh'.

Jon Shafer · June 9, 2002, 17:32

http://www.napoleonguide.com/leaders_kutusov.htm
http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Zone/5733/
http://web2.iadfw.net/napoleon/russianoob1812.html
http://www.napoleonseries.org/fun/po...neralsform.cfm
http://www.wtj.com/portal/wars/modern/napoleonic/
http://www.napoleon-series.org/home/c_links.html

Need more?

Spell it how you like, because there is no 'official' way. Yes, he himself spelled it Kutuzov, but nearly ever source I've seen says "Kutusov", which is generally how it is accepted in English. if you disagree, fine, I won't lose sleep. You have it your way, and I'll have it my way.

ranskaldan · June 9, 2002, 17:45

I've done a quick search myself:

Encarta: Kutuzov
Encyclopedia Britannica: Kutuzov
Encyclopedia.com: Kutuzov
Columbia Encyclopedia: Kutuzov

Thus I've changed it back to Kutuzov.

It's not like you can't change it to whatever you like..... that's what the editor's for.

Purple · June 9, 2002, 17:51

Quote:

Originally posted by Trip
You have it your way, and I'll have it my way.

Sounds good to me.

Imp. Montezuma · June 9, 2002, 18:11

Quote:

Originally posted by Purple

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showth...121#post307121
Just see other posts from Higher Game. I's funny! Just Victime of American Education.

Jon Shafer · June 9, 2002, 18:42

Relating me to him is quite an insult.

Do you really think 1 letter makes the difference between a misguided idiot and someone educated in history? So what if I go by western spelling instead of Russian. We don't refer to "Alexandr the Great" do we? Like I said, you spell it your way, and I'll spell it mine.

Imp. Montezuma · June 10, 2002, 05:43

Quote:

Originally posted by Trip
Relating me to him is quite an insult.

Do you really think 1 letter makes the difference between a misguided idiot and someone educated in history? So what if I go by western spelling instead of Russian. We don't refer to "Alexandr the Great" do we? Like I said, you spell it your way, and I'll spell it mine.

Insult? Sorry, I never mind. If The Game developed for Anglo-Saxon only, You welcome, use spelling as You want. If The Game developed for international World then don't mistake. Could Russians used Bashington instead of Washington.
P.S. Higher Game no idiot. He is American version of Zhirinovsky. He believe than only Him point is right. 'H.G.S. -Higher Game Syndrome'

ranskaldan · June 10, 2002, 16:07

Alright....! back to the topic.

Any corrections/additions to the existing list, other than Kymy3ob?

Imp. Montezuma · June 10, 2002, 18:06

Well, General Principles of include Heroes in the lists:
1. Because Hero born with win of elite land military units, no sea admirals, no artillerists, no pilots, no civils.
2 No colonial 'heroes' like Pizarro, Cortez etc.
3. In The Game are 4 eras, so is 2 Heroes per era >= 8 Heroes totally.
4. Need >= 1 Heroes for Modern Era.
5. Need >= 1 Hero for Golden Age of Nation.

ranskaldan · June 10, 2002, 22:20

Alright, but that will really require totally revamping of the list.
I'll get started on the Chinese list.

ranskaldan · June 12, 2002, 14:16

imp montezuma:

according to your new rules, i don't think any list for any civ is valid now...!

Jon Shafer · June 12, 2002, 14:45

Glad you left Grant and Lee on there. Lee was a general for the US Army for a much longer time than he was for the Confederacy, so he is still an 'American' general. As far as Grant simply throwing away men, the difference between him and the other generals in his position was that he know how to beat Lee. He knew that if he could wear Lee down, then his chances of beating him were much greater. Other commanders, i.e. McClellan simply got beat, then retreated to Washington for another 8 months to build up a new army.

Jon Shafer · June 12, 2002, 14:48

Quote:

Originally posted by Imp. Montezuma
Insult? Sorry, I never mind. If The Game developed for Anglo-Saxon only, You welcome, use spelling as You want. If The Game developed for international World then don't mistake. Could Russians used Bashington instead of Washington.

Well, being that I'm Anglo-Saxon, and I live in an Anglo-Saxon country, I think it's fine if I spell it the way commonly used here. Like I said, we don't call Alexander the Great 'Alexandr the Great' do we? Why not? And I don't care how other people have Washington's name.

I'm not him so I can't care.

GodKing · June 14, 2002, 13:18

I participated in the old thread a lot. I even have (if I can find it this weekend) the heros we came up with in a file. 8 people were used as to have some sort of limit & to try to be fair to all. I do not believe that there is any real restriction in the game. It was just felt that 8 was enough.

The leaders were all to be ground military as no navel or air leaders exist in the game (I havn't heard of this changing with PtW, but much is still not known.)

grapedog · June 20, 2002, 12:20

Quote:

Originally posted by ranskaldan
Also, can anyone provide good, detailed heroes lists for the new civs in ptw, like for the spaniards

Who was the spanish genius who thought up the "lets tie all our boats together" plan....?

Nuctemeronn · June 20, 2002, 13:10

Quote:

Originally posted by Imp. Montezuma
Well, General Principles of include Heroes in the lists:
1. Because Hero born with win of elite land military units, no sea admirals, no artillerists, no pilots, no civils.
2 No colonial 'heroes' like Pizarro, Cortez etc.
3. In The Game are 4 eras, so is 2 Heroes per era >= 8 Heroes totally.
4. Need >= 1 Heroes for Modern Era.
5. Need >= 1 Hero for Golden Age of Nation.

2 heroes per era? I find a problem here with some civilizations.
Name 2 modern heroes for, for instance, aztecs or babylonians.
Name 2 ancient American or Zulu heroes.

just my 2 cents.

cya

GodKing · June 20, 2002, 13:54

Couldn't find the file. If anyone likes, I do have a print out and I could easily recreate the file. Just post and let me know. Else I won't waste my time.....