SUGGESTION : Change to Naval Combat

[Mikel]

First off let me say that my job entails a small amount of application development, so I understand that no matter how simple the program and how seemingly simple the change may appear it is not always possible to incorporate the change into the original design.

Secondly I suggest this change to make tactical advantages to the game, which may well be especially appreciated when there are human opponents to face, not because I can give any real world justification for these alterations. If anyone can come up with any plausible reasons then tack those on below. Also all values are suggested to illustrate the point

So here is a question, why build a navy at all? The obvious answer is to transport units over water. If that is all they are useful for then naval strategy in the game is very week, after all there are no resources in the game that appear in ocean squares that a navy could seize hold of. The only tactical advantage that can be gained by a navy is attempting to blockade every single enemy port to block their trade routes. This is very difficult to do and it seems impossible to tell if you have succeeded. So here are the suggested changes.

First some basic changes to the defence factor of water tiles. Coast 50%, Sea 20%, Ocean 0%. Then increase all ships attacks by 40%. These changes should make no difference to battles in coastal regions, however attacks become much deadlier in the sea and extremely lethal in the ocean.

I will use the later game in this example but the tactic could be applied to Frigates and Privateers.

Now increase the Destroyers speed by 3.

This is the big change. Give a new ability to submarines ”Blockade”. When a submarine is blockading it not only stops trade in the square it occupies but also in a city shaped perimeter around it (privateers could be every square around it). Give a new ability to Battleships “Escort”. When a battleship escorts it cancels the effect of any Blockade in every square around it (Frigate cannot escort to cancel a submarines blockade square). These actions will only effect civilizations that your country is at war with (even the privateers just to keep it simple).

Now if you desperately need a supply of X and your enemy has filled the oceans with unseen submarines what do you do? Build a chain of battleships through the ocean where they will be vulnerable to attack? Or send out fleets of speedy Destroyers to find and eliminate the subs?

A few last things. For this tactic to be usable throughout the later stage of the game the ability of an Airport to supply a trade link would have to be taken away, unless anyone can think of a simple tidy solution to that problem. Also the player would need more feedback i.e. when a unit performs one of these new actions their area of effect remains visible to their owner at all times, and perhaps a message from one of your advisors telling you that your blockade has cut the supply of X.

[Gen.Dragolen]

Mikel,

I've been playing with the editor and am testing the changes I've made to the unit strengths and abilities, for all units, not just naval units.

Some of the more interesting changes are to the bombardment values and unit abilities. Starting with Galleys, I've decreased their speed to two and made them strictly coastal vessels. Their attack and defense are set to 2. This corresponds to the main weapons they would have used: rams, arrows and swords. And they can only carry foot units. No room on a galley for horses. Caravels are given a similar attack and defense, but move faster at 4, and can carry 2 units, includng mounted. They can only travel in Seas. Galleons get strengths improved to 4, move a little faster at 6, and can carry 3 units. They have a limited bombardment at strength 4, range 1, RoF 1. Privateers are similar, but don't carry any units. Frigates become a little more powerful with strengths at 8, can carry 1 unit (proto marines?) bombardment at 8/1/1.

When you get to modern units like Ironclads, you have a major leap in technology, since you aren't limited by sails and wooden construction. Bear in mind to, that these settings are abstractions of groups of vessels, not individual ships.

The increased bombardment values match the changes of land based units, and the changes to the special abilities get nastier. What should happen is that a modern unit should be able to destroy an older unit without taking massive amounts of damage. A (Spanish) Galleon should grind a (Greek) trireme under if they crossed paths. Mass and small cannons beat oars and rams

I will try to post a spread sheet I've been using to track the changes I've been making so you can make your own changes to taste.

[planetfall]

You should not break air to fix naval. Berlin airlift was a key salvation to a troubled city. A possible solution would be to allow full trade values if both sea/air routes available but only partial if one is missing. Besides increasing the value of navy it would also encourage players to build airports.

[Kuciwalker]

Ultimately, any war must be decided on the ground. Only ground troops can occupy a region. Ships exist for three purposes: transporting ground units, asserting/denying superiority over a part of ocean or body of water, and assisting a coastal assault. In the game sea units are very useful for the first and second roles. The second role could be improved by actually charting trade routes like in CtP2, except with a few changes:
1) There would be multiple sea/air/land routes between each city.
2) A delay in delivery of resources would exist depending on the route, meaning if you managed to blockade (interdict is a better term, because you could stop land, sea, or air routes) shorter routes there would be a period of time before trade "resumed" (simulating the longer distances necessary).
3)For air trade, there would have to be a chain of airports only a certain distance apart, depending on tech level (no big transatlantic flights when you're using a pre-WWI biplane, etc., due to fuel and speed restrictions).
4)For land trade, a road has to have cities on it every so often (to encourage a search for sea routes, which have no such requirement). There is no such requirement for railroads.
5)Barbarian ships lessen or eliminate the chance of a sea/land trade route working each turn.
6)Ships, air, and land units have an "area of effect" in which they can prevent a route from working.
7)Air trade only works for luxuries (think for a second about the absurdity of oil being shipped in airplanes).
8)Trade routes exist within countries as well as between them.

That's all I can think of for now.

[civman2000]

so blockades could work like air superiority, except blocking trade in teh ocean...that would be nice.

[Kuciwalker]

They could block trade through a certain area of ocean. It might completely block trade, or just require that a different route be used.

Oh, and here are some points I forgot:
9)The trade route can be a combination of land, sea, and air routes (i.e., say, land from resource to a city with an airport, then to another city with an airport and a harbor, and then to another city with a harbor on another continent, then over land to another countries capitol).
10)Cities with trade routes going through them get, say, +1 trade per turn for each route.

[Mikel]

Some interesting points.
I would be interested in testing any alternatives to naval combat, just as I have enjoyed using the Blitz mod. I suggest an increase in the attack values to all naval ships only to counteract the change to water tiles defence factors, and I think this is an interesting change as it forces you to make tactical decisions about were and how to fight your naval campaign.

I agree that it should not be necessary to break the air transport rule, but personally I could not think of a simple solution that would encourage a more tactically fought game. You are quite right about the Berlin airlift, but as Civ is a simple simulation how can this be recreated? Any suggestions welcome.

I also agree with the 3 roles of a naval force, and I would hope that this alteration would expand their naval superiorty to the control of abstract merchant shipping that exists in the game as well as denying military transport.

Finally I enjoyed the CtP variation to the Civ series, however I don't imagine we will see any of their rules converted to the Firaxis branch of the genre (at least not by the company). This suggested change uses rules that are already there (your ships blockade the enemy trade routes anyway, but only in the tile they occupy) and expands on them. The trade aspect of the game is one which I personally like and I would hope that it will be used by new features in upcoming expansions to give the game more depth.

Thanks for putting in your thoughts.