God Favors the Mighty

Theseus · June 8, 2002, 22:33

I've been playing a mini-tourney with Arrian and Sir Ralph, and I thought I'd chime in with the virtue of being Militaristic (and Religious).

I'd not played as Japan for a while, and forgot how powerful the Rel / Mil combo is.

As it happens, the game we've been playing looks much like an Arrian-fest... take control of your continent, be a builder there, and, following the US Navy motto, go to foreign lands, meet new people, and kill them.

Aside from the straight-out benefit of more promotions, more elites, more GLs, let's look at the other benefits. They seem to primarily benefit aggressive, far-off expansion, where captured or even newly-built cities will suffer greatly from corruption.

* Harbors: I haven't done so many intercontinental wars before... harbors are CRITICAL to get resources distributed, both to the newly conquered distant cities, and back to the mothership (in this game at least, my initial intercontinental invasions have been for luxuries). Cheap as dirt, even when dealing with 1-shield cities.

* Barracks: Again, critical for an expeditionary force. Cheap, cheap, cheap. Also, important for healing of naval units.

* Airports: Haven't gotten that far in this game yet, but I live in mortal terror of the enemy disrupting my shipping routes. In the current game, I've literally got a string of Battleships and Destroyers protecting the primary route.

Sidenote: Militaristic makes STAOW unnecessary.

Add to EITHER Religious or Scientific for quick culture builds, and you've got a warmonger winner.

As a plug for Japan (you're welcome, Arrian), Rel+Mil+Samurai (4d) are one of the best intercontinental invasion packages one could ask for.

Sean · June 8, 2002, 23:23

Add to EITHER Religious or Scientific for quick culture builds, and you've got a warmonger winner.

This is why the Germans are a good civ to play. Particularly when you consider the benefits of the Panzer, and its extra movement.

Theseus · June 8, 2002, 23:29

Haven't played Germany yet, but I'm looking forward to it. Might be the MP sleeper. If you can survive till Panzers, blitzkrieg (funny how that works).

Arrian · June 9, 2002, 12:29

The funny thing is that out little tourney game wasn't nealry ideal for my mongol horde strategy. We had one neighbor, the Americans, and another civ off the coast within galley range, the Indians.

China, England, Zululand and Rome all started on a nice big continent across the ocean.

I wholeheartedly agree with respect to harbours and barracks. Cheap is good. Samurai are great units for invasions, because they stand up really well to counterattack. Perfect for an outpost city with walls & barracks (especially if on a hill). If the AI rolls up with longbowmen, you can sortie out and kill them. If it comes with knights, you can sit back and let them try to attack you. Either way, you have the advantage.

Funny... I hardly used by Samurai in our tourney game. I did take several Roman cities (including Rome) with them, but most of the damage has been done with horsemen.

-Arrian

Theseus · June 9, 2002, 19:08

I showed up on the other continent with a mixture of elite Samurai and vet Cav.

Whatta combo!!The Cav were my primary attackers, with Samurai finishing off low hp units (NO GLs, @$#!$%$), and also acting as defenders. I also had (this'll sound familiar) two 2xSamurai + 1xCav Armies, which just rained down pain and misery.

I quickly built a barracks there, and as Samurai became damaged, I upgraded them to Cavs for instant healing.

Perfect.

Harovan · June 10, 2002, 04:51

In our tourney game, I conquered my home continent with Swordsmen and Horsemen, the Indian continent with Samurai and invaded overseas with only Cavalries. Not a good choice, as I got sneak attacked there by 2 civs at the same time and I didn't have shipped good defenders yet. Later, I fought there with the Inf/Arty combo and Tanks. I didn't make it to Modern Armor.

As for naval warfare, I build warships very late only. My overseas transports went undefended and I didn't lose a single ship, in fact I didn't even get attacked. China (my ally) also had not much ships, and all other AIs were such pushovers, I haven't seen a single ship of them (far from some galleys) the whole game. I built 2 airports late in the game, but didn't use them at all (no need).

I was very impressed with the tech race in my game. The Chinese were ahead in tech till mid of the industrial age. They did their own research, trading techs only with me, and even that was rare, as I was behind. All other civs were so far behind and pitiful poor, that they could not compete at all. I don't know how China could manage that research. They were much less than me, about half of my score in the powergraph, and built non-overlapping cities, while I followed the distance-3 rule. Probably, being industrious and having a good GA did it.

Sava · June 10, 2002, 08:36

Theseus, that's a pretty bad-ass strategy. If I were playing with you, I'd be hitting my computer.

Harovan · June 10, 2002, 09:34

Quote:

Originally posted by Theseus
Haven't played Germany yet, but I'm looking forward to it. Might be the MP sleeper. If you can survive till Panzers, blitzkrieg (funny how that works).

I have played with "my" Germans a couple of times. Although they come late, Panzers are killer units, and militaristic/scientific is a good combo. We could use them sometimes in the next mini tourney. Arrian might disagree though (not religious

).

Arrian · June 10, 2002, 10:00

I would prefer a different civ, actually, but Germany could be ok. If Cultural linking was left on, the neighbors are nice and weak (mmm, France, England, Russia) in ancient times. You two could use the early archer attack, and I could wait for my horseman rush.

Just a thought... but I gotta finish our Japanese game first.

-Arrian

Lawrence of Arabia · June 10, 2002, 18:46

Arrian, which units do you use primarliy in your bid for a continent? I tried archers, but it seems you need like 4-6 of them to take out a city. I tried horsemen, but they are always retreating and they cost a lot. I tried swordsman, and they worked until they were greated by masses of AI horsemen. It seems that I only have a chance to conquer a continenet when I get Knights.

punkbass2000 · June 10, 2002, 19:20

LoA,

Try a mix of them. Also throw in some catapults. A lot of people think catapults aren't useful, but their cheap, they don't die, and they will hit almost every time in open territory. That's right, they're not useful for sieging cities (oddly enough) but they're great for hitting the units the AI sends after you, and most will run away after losing jyust one hitpoint. Catapults are also good for defense, as they will usually take one hit point away from the attacker. Essentially, go for combined arms, every unit has its place.

Arrian · June 11, 2002, 10:27

Quote:

Originally posted by Lawrence of Arabia
Arrian, which units do you use primarliy in your bid for a continent? I tried archers, but it seems you need like 4-6 of them to take out a city. I tried horsemen, but they are always retreating and they cost a lot. I tried swordsman, and they worked until they were greated by masses of AI horsemen. It seems that I only have a chance to conquer a continenet when I get Knights.

LoA,

Glad you asked. I use horsemen. Lots of them. Here's how I go about it:

*note* Monarch level, Standard map, continents, 8 civs. Other settings would require some adjustment*

I play as Japan, but you can modify the tech path to use just about anyone. I build a core of 6-8 cities, road & mine so they're productive, connect up horses, and start building (veteran) chariots. Tech path: bronze working, iron working, warrior code, masonry, horseback riding. After masonry, I set science to 10%, or 0% w/1 scientist. I deliberately take my sweet time discovering HBR, because until I do, I can built 20 shield chariots instead of 30 shield horsemen. Meanwhile, I'm hording gold.

I will most likely also have a source of iron (2nd tech discovered... not too hard to find one and build a city near it), but I will not yet hook it up. I will build a few vet warriors first. Then I hook up the iron, upgrade the warriors (probably about 5, maybe more if I got rich off barb encampments) to swordsmen. Upon discovering HBR, I upgrade my chariots (I aim for 20-25) to horsemen.

Then, we ride.

-Arrian

alexman · June 11, 2002, 13:19

Quote:

Originally posted by Theseus
I've been playing a mini-tourney with Arrian and Sir Ralph, and I thought I'd chime in with the virtue of being Militaristic (and Religious).

Could one of you post the 4000.B.C. savegame so we can follow your discussion, and maybe play along?

Theseus · June 11, 2002, 20:12

Sure.

I finished last night... be aware that we've been sporadically writing spoilers here and there.

Tremendously fun game though. Felt like Civ2 in certain ways... but with Civ3 positives.

Here ya go:

Arrian · June 11, 2002, 21:24

Just finished it myself. For those who don't want to play, but would like to see the result, here is a late save, 85 yrs. before I won via domination.

-Arrian

Alkis · June 13, 2002, 14:46

I downloaded the file and I' ll try it too. Your saves will be very interesting. Who knows maybe I learn something. Now that I think about it I will definately learn something because my style is different (builder in the extreme)

Theseus · October 5, 2004, 19:26

Replaying... what an odd start from a tech perspective!!

Theseus · October 5, 2004, 19:28

And what a start!!!!!

Harovan · October 6, 2004, 04:38

This was one fun game. I still remember it with pleasure.

Aqualung71 · October 6, 2004, 06:30

Can this be played using C3C?

Harovan · October 6, 2004, 07:21

Heaven forbid.

Krill · October 6, 2004, 12:44

yes, it can be replayed using C3C, although you will never meet marsh, or volcanoes, or any of the new terrain bonuses. Or any of the new civs...

Theseus · October 6, 2004, 14:24

I go up to 270 AD last night... it's a lot of fun, but, errr, I guess I am better than I used to be 'cause I am kickin' mofo *ss.

It was a Monarch level game, IIRC.

There are a couple of little bugs, but it's playable. In addition to missing the new terrain, it's also got the old tech tree and only the old Wonders.

I am building the FP, and will soon know the corruption model, more or less.... oh, crap, I just realized that might mean a different FP location!!

Anyway, other than the inherent C3 versus C3C issues, it's a nice teaching tool.

Aqualung71 · October 6, 2004, 20:47

This was a vanilla Civ3 game, not PTW right?

I recall that the levels are harder under vanilla Civ3/PTW than they are under C3C, largely due to the number of levels. For example, under Vanilla Civ3 Emperor is 5th of 6 levels, whereas under C3C it's 5th of 8 levels. Certainly, I used to get my arse handed to me on Emperor in PTW, while in C3C it's a bit of a cakewalk usually. I presume the same applies for Monarch.

Then again, I'm not sure if playing it under C3C would account for 8 playing levels or 6

So maybe I should just shutup.

alexman · October 6, 2004, 21:21

Maybe.

The AI bonus at a given level is the same for PTW and C3C. It's the score that differs, and that's only for Deity.

Aqualung71 · October 6, 2004, 21:25

Then I stand corrected

I must admit, I've never even opened the PTW editor.

But I still maintain that PTW "felt" harder. Perhaps the AI was a little better and I've improved

Harovan · October 7, 2004, 02:49

PtW is certainly harder in SP than Conquests in the same difficulty level, because it has a halfway decent AI.

Aqualung71 · October 7, 2004, 04:40

Should've seen that one coming from SR

Harovan · October 7, 2004, 04:47

Better city placement (Conquests leaves gaps, PtW largely doesn't), better tile improvements, that adds up. Ah well, maybe Firaxis wanted to implement an "anyone can beat Deity" touch to the game. Must have been too hard for their broadest customer base.

Theseus · October 8, 2004, 00:10

Actually, whatever friggin' level I'm replaying at (I can't tell!), the AI CP is not so bad... no 5-tile at least... I think it's prolly due to terrain.

China is the most badass of the AI civs, but not the kind of killer I'd now expect to see in C3C.

Very weird reverting all the way back to vanilla, and also not being in the AU Mod... Had to disband all of my Swords!!

And I forgot how utterly dominating winning the Industrial Tech Corridor was!

Maaan, and back to my original approach to the game: Samurai and Cavs are indomitable together, and this time around I've got vanilla Infantry to hold the hard points...

/me trods upon baked goods