Damn US Police State

[Boris Godunov]

First, cop-bashing is easy. It's a lot harder to see the good things that the police do to keep everyone safe. It's pretty childish to start complaining about a cop doing his job.

Ozzy, ingorance of the law is no excuse. I, frankly, don't relish the idea of having people driving to New York and then sleeping in their cars. It would be a major problem. Should you be allowed just to plop your ass down on any city sidewalk and sleep?

I grew up in Salisbury, MD, on the Eastern Shore and went to school near Ocean City, so I'm well-acquainted with the area. If you knew the huge problems they have had in the past with seedy elements, you'd probably understand those rules a little better.

Rehoboth is a beautiful town, and the residents want to keep it that way. If they have the voting power and it's their community, tough sh*t, go somewhere else. Chances are that's exactly what they would want someone with your attitude towards authority to do.

Grow up a little and realize we live in a collective society. You're not going to like all the rules, but if you choose not to follow them, that's your responsibility.

Re Ocean City. Hehehe, I worked as a desk clerk at one of the more upscale hotels there during my summers between college semesters. I personally evicted several pot-smoking and underage people in our hotel, and was known as the "Tow King" for my uberzealousness in towing illegally parked cars from our lots.

[OzzyKP]

Originally posted by Boris Godunov
First, cop-bashing is easy. It's a lot harder to see the good things that the police do to keep everyone safe. It's pretty childish to start complaining about a cop doing his job.

What is "childish" about it? If unjust laws exist, and cops misuse their authority to harrass harmless travelers why is this beyond reproach? What kind of ridiculous statist are you that the police are beyond criticism? I'd like to see what you have to say if you ever get arrested for violating sodomy laws . Cops just doing their job, right?

[Lincoln]

Originally posted by Giancarlo
You people you should say this when the officer asks:

Officer: Your eyes are red, have you been drinking?

And you say: Your eyes are glazed, have you been eating donuts?

A joke I know... that would not be advisable to say unless you want to spend a night in jail.

When he takes out his ticket book you can also say: "Yes, I'll have a Big Mack and a large order of fries please."

[David Floyd]

Ozzy, you never have to show a cop your Social Security Card - it cannot legally be asked for as ID.

[Boris Godunov]

Originally posted by OzzyKP


What is "childish" about it? If unjust laws exist, and cops misuse their authority to harrass harmless travelers why is this beyond reproach? What kind of ridiculous statist are you that the police are beyond criticism? I'd like to see what you have to say if you ever get arrested for violating sodomy laws . Cops just doing their job, right?

I'm not talking about the cop abusing his authority, I'm talking about a cop acting within his authority. I've never expressed tolerance for abuse of authority.

How was this cop abusing his authority? You say he asked for your SS card because he didn't have a way to identify you. Why? Did you not have a license or some other I.D. on you?

You refer to yourself as a harmless traveler. How would he know you were harmless? Put yourself in a cop's shoes. Every day they get reports of stolen vehicles, escaped felons, fugitives, etc. So here he comes across a guy sleeping in his car near a resort with lots of hotels and motels. What if this guy is a fugitive, some escaped psycho murderer? Maybe he's sleeping in his car to avoid showing his face at motels, thus being I.D.'ed by townspeople. So of course the cop is going to bust you (for, we might add, doing something illegal, which is his job).

I would not blame a cop for enforcing sodomy laws if I were being stupid and doing such a thing in a public place where a cop could see me. But if he illegally enters my home and then tries to arrest me, fine, he's overstepped his authority.

I blame the laws for being unjust and I deplore cops who abuse their power. But I will sure not be stupid enough to get caught in places where such laws exist, nor blame a cop for enforcing the laws.

[Giancarlo]

Unfornately you may hate me for saying this, but I feel safer when cops abuse their authority. And sometimes here I see cops carrying assault rifles and 12 gauge shotguns and I feel a bit safer. Maybe it is just me.

Everytime a cop writes up a ticket it adds to their salary in the US I think. Go figure. If I was in a cop shoes I would be writing up tickets and busting crime.

[DanS]

"and they guy scratches his head, chews me out a bit, and lets me off the hook."



That's a great story. What were you doing in the States? Work?

[Boris Godunov]

Ok, read the part about your license and SS Card...gotcha. Yeah, he overstepped his authority. So he was wrong. Not to bust you, mind you, but for asking for the SS card.

Still, I don't like the blanket generalization that cops are like that in general. Keep in mind the ES of MD is a fairly rural place, so it's going to have more than its share of Sheriff Bufort-wannabees. And the residents kinda like it that way.

[tandeetaylor]

Originally posted by chegitz guevara
So you're all going to move to a state and force the people who ive there to impliment your ideas? That's not very nice of you.

No, we're going to exercise the right of people who still live in a country where they can move to other states, and exercise our right to vote and to freedom of speech. That's why one of the criteria is a native population that already tends to espouse freedom.

We're forcing freedom on people. Oh no! Us and those damn founding fathers...

[chequita guevara]

Your version of freedom is other people's verion of getting screwed.

[David Floyd]

Your version of freedom is other people's verion of getting screwed.

And what you define as "getting screwed" is what I'd define as the way things work out when an attempt is made to mix a free system with an oppressive one.

"Duh, what's gonna happen if we decide we're gonna have some free elements in society, but lots of restrictions and laws too? Nah, no one will get screwed!"

[Grrr]

Originally posted by OzzyKP
Grrr...

Godammit, why do all you guys think I'm your personal counselor

[Ming]

Originally posted by Giancarlo
Everytime a cop writes up a ticket it adds to their salary in the US I think.

So totally untrue it isn't even funny Maybe you can find some small town where it "might" work that way, but not in 99.9999% of America...

[David Floyd]

There ARE "ticket quotas" in some areas, although admittedly this isn't the norm.

Police officers also, though, tend to see themselves as a bit above the law - often times they would rather enforce law and order than protect individual rights, which I definitely see as a problem.

[Ming]

Originally posted by David Floyd
There ARE "ticket quotas" in some areas, although admittedly this isn't the norm.

Ticket quotas are entirely different than what he suggested...

[Boris Godunov]

[SIZE=1] Originally posted by David Floyd
Police officers also, though, tend to see themselves as a bit above the law - often times they would rather enforce law and order than protect individual rights, which I definitely see as a problem.

The Inspector Javert syndrome, yes.

[David Floyd]

Ticket quotas are entirely different than what he suggested...

But certainly a problem, wouldn't you agree?

[Moral Hazard]

Usually the way quotas work is that they are required to stop a certain number of people, but it doesn't matter if they give them a warning or a ticket or whatever.

In truth this is less of an incentive problem than the low amount for court fees ($6 in Pennsylvania) that they add on if you decide to fight the ticket. Which of course I always do.

[Timexwatch]

Ozzy:

It's all your damn sketchy beard. Get clean shaven, son!

[Jack_www]

if it were not for the police, and laws we would live in total anarchy, and that would not be nice. I have never had any problem with the police. I would say sleeping in your car is very supicous to me, and if i were a cop i would like to know what the you are doing in a car at 4:00 sleeping. Also you dont know why they have the laws they do. It is usually the result of people doing stupid things.

[moomin]

Originally posted by DanS
"and they guy scratches his head, chews me out a bit, and lets me off the hook."



That's a great story. What were you doing in the States? Work?

Nope, I was doing the last two years of my MS over at Oak Ridge. I spent half a year in my car, speeding across North America... I just love the way you can open up and drive like mad for hundereds of miles out in the middle of nowhere in the midwest... Europe is so frickin' crowded.

Got my fair share of ticket's but I never met a bad cop anywhere, and I saw a lot of them in a lot of different places, driving like I did. Still think guys reporting regular trouble with "bad cops" are doing something wrong.

[Arrian]

I agree with Boris on this one: grow up, Ozzy.

You have a serious problem with authority, which is obvious to anyone who has read your posts here. Frankly, it sounds like you wouldn't be happy unless you were living in "OzzyKPland" where you could do whatever you want.

-Arrian

[drake]

Does the "I'm a rebel" facade ever get you any chicks Oz? I hear its done wonders for Floyd.

[Sprayber]

Originally posted by David Floyd
There ARE "ticket quotas" in some areas, although admittedly this isn't the norm.

Police officers also, though, tend to see themselves as a bit above the law - often times they would rather enforce law and order than protect individual rights, which I definitely see as a problem.

In a lot of places police officers have Contact quotas. Meaning that they have to pull over some people,(who are breaking traffic laws) and give you those written warnings that I have gotten plenty of. That shows that he is actually out there doing is job instead of parked somewhere listening to the radio. At least that's how it is in the more rural areas. But there is no official ticket quota. Here in Arkansas there is a town called Tyronza and another one called Gilmore. In some respects they remind me of Hazard County in the Dukes of Hazard. I have to go through both to get to Memphis and I tell you guys, when I do, I go real slow.

Read the link to find out all about it, and consider yourself warned if you ever drive through Eastern Arkansas on Hwy 63.

http://www.memphisflyer.com/backissu...vrstory396.htm

[Sprayber]

Oh yeah, I forgot to add that the Arkansas Legislature had to pass a law that forbid a city or town from collecting more than 30% of its revenue from tickets.


http://www.memphisflyer.com/backissu...e417/cr417.htm

Is Gilmore a Speed-Trap? Audit Says Yes
by Phil Campbell

ACCORDING TO A STATE AUDIT, THE tiny town of Gilmore, Arkansas, is guilty of excessively ticketing motorists along Highway 63.

An auditing committee found that, in 1995, 56 percent of Gilmore's $210,887.49 budget came from speeding tickets and municipal court costs. In 1994, the town relied on fines 65 percent of the time. The results of an audit of Tyronza, also on Highway 63, were similar. Since both Gilmore and Tyronza are small towns with few streets, the majority of these fines apparently came from traffic violations along Highway 63, which links Memphis to Jonesboro and parts of northern Arkansas.

By comparison, Shelby County cities and suburbs only use speeding tickets as a small source of revenue. About 7 percent of Bartlett's annual revenue comes from speeding tickets and related fines. Speeding tickets from the Memphis Police Department account for a mere 2 percent of the city's overall budget.

The Flyer investigated Gilmore in September ("Speed Trap Blues," September 19th issue). At the time, state senator Jerry Bookout, representing Jonesboro, and the Jonesboro Sun were waging a war against the town's aggressive speeding-ticket policies. Bookout had noticed that out-of-state drivers were getting ticketed there at an alarming rate.

Two years ago, the Arkansas state legislature passed a law to punish towns that become speed traps. The bill provided that the Arkansas State Police had the authority to force communities such as Gilmore to stop issuing tickets on state highways if they made more than 30 percent of their revenue from traffic fines.

Unfortunately, the law wasn't clear enough, says Rick Hogan, the state's deputy attorney general. The state legislature is now wrestling with an amendment that will give a better definition of the word "highway." Attorney General Winston Bryant also noted in a legal opinion that it might not be fair to use 1994 audit figures to punish these towns because the speed-trap law did not exist then.

Senator Bookout, who pushed for the first law in 1995, says he feels vindicated over the results of the late-December audit. Now retired, Bookout and the Jonesboro Sun have been sharp critics of Gilmore Mayor Paul McClelland for issuing too many tickets along Highway 63.

[Adam Smith]

Originally posted by Boris Godunov
Rehoboth is a beautiful town, and the residents want to keep it that way. If they have the voting power and it's their community, tough sh*t, go somewhere else.

Sort of, but its a little bit more than that. I've been to Ocean City and Rehoboth more times than I care to count (or am able to remember ) Rehoboth gets my vote as about the most anal place on the planet. Only place I've ever been hassled by the police.....for changing my kid's clothes in the bathroom, and I was pushing 40 at the time. We wanted a quiet, family type beach (NOT Ocean City) and went to Rehoboth for a day trip. No place to change, so we headed for the bathroom. We basicly got hassled becasue we were there for the day and not renting a place in town.

[Ramo]

Gotta agree with Ozzy et al. The police has way too much authority in this country.

[Dr Strangelove]

I used to live in Maryland, and I have visited some of those beaches. many years ago Rehoboth managed to acquire an undisserved reputation as a "gay" beach thanks to a magazine article written by a fame hungry reporter. It began to attract visits from all amnner of unsavory types just trolling for a little bit of "the old ultraviolence". Since then local cops have been very touchy about vagrants. Remember though, that these are local ordinances, and they govern behavior on local publicly owned property.

What state are you going to dominate with a mere 20,000 supporters? Even Alaska has more than 100,000 in population.

I've always adopted the ultra respecting posture with cops too, but I've noticed that in the past 20 years it doesn't work as well. Face it, Andy ain't sheriff anymore.

[OzzyKP]

Well I have an interesting epilouge to this story that cuts both ways. I got a call today from the police department in which I got my ticket. The officer on the phone apoligized for the behavior of the cop who gave me a ticket, he said he was new to the force and they were erasing the ticket.

So the police chief or whoever agrees that I got shafted and the cop I encountered was an ass who was out of line. On the other side, the guy I talked to was really nice, and it was nice they canceled the ticket.

[Tuberski]

So, basically...........nevermind?