Olden Days Memories - Page 2

Stefu · June 13, 2002, 18:02

Giancarlo as a side-switcher? He started as a fascist and has evoled into... well... more moderate fascist?

Sirotnikov · June 13, 2002, 18:03

I remember I came for the Civilization 2 files.

I was in search for maps and scenarios.

Then I discovered the forums and lurked.

I remember all kinds of Strategy theory and advice given to me by Ming, on Civ 2 - Strategy.

Then Civ III came.

I moved there - offering tons of suggestions. You can find some of these in the Civ III - Suggestions - Archive.

Ah, those were the days. I was young. Still had dreams about Civ III. Made dumb arguements and suggestions.

Then, for a while I went to lurk in the Off Topic.

I remember tons of religious fights. I remember CyberShy.

I remember Imran and ... someone going at it about the link between Democracy and Peace, and me stepping in.

I remember CivNation's first rants.

I remember the first several coffee shops with Mao and all the great ones. Back when they were spread over dozens of pages with midi files and such.

I remember The Brain, making fun of things. His role now is taken by Stefu and sometimes Bugs.

I remember the Excellent Adventures by Imran and friends.

Ah, those were the days.

Today almost nothing is funny in the OT since there's no incentive.

Ming · June 13, 2002, 18:06

Quote:

Originally posted by Sirotnikov
I remember all kinds of Strategy theory and advice given to me by Ming, on Civ 2 - Strategy.

And who knows... maybe half of it was even right

Bugs ****ing Bunny · June 13, 2002, 18:10

Quote:

Originally posted by Sirotnikov

I remember The Brain, making fun of things. His role now is taken by Stefu and sometimes Bugs.

I remember the Excellent Adventures by Imran and friends.

Ah, those were the days.

Today almost nothing is funny in the OT since there's no incentive.

Well who's the first person to turn to if you want change? Pull your finger out and write something yourself.

Hueij · June 13, 2002, 18:11

Quote:

Originally posted by Ming

And who knows... maybe half of it was even right

Hehe... IIRC my first post after months of lurking was in a Civ2 Strategy thread about when barbs would appear from goody huts when you didn't build your first city

Kropotkin · June 13, 2002, 18:13

Quote:

Originally posted by Sirotnikov
Ah, those were the days. I was young. [...] Made dumb arguements and suggestions.

Oh well, some things do not change after all.

Bosh · June 13, 2002, 18:18

Quote:

connor became an atheist and another popular poster (I can't remember his name) got converted from atheism.

GS by any change? I forget
I also got atheized, Eroberer moved around politically a lot, Imran got sane, and BD stopped being pro-drug war. All I can remember off the top of my head.

Kropotkin · June 13, 2002, 18:23

You're actually the first poster I remember Boshko (even if i still have troubles spelling your name

). I guess I posted something in the CTP general forum and you started a thread or at least wrote a post asking about my name. We must have been young and good-looking back then.

Andemagne · June 13, 2002, 18:23

first came to apolyton on spring 99 (can't remember the
date) for ctp files. discovered forums in early autumm
(26.8.99), first OT thread that I read was by dr. feel
good, just a normal friday night spam, but it was
funny. then lurked, registered finally on 23.12.99, and
rest is history...

IIRC 26.8.99 was just after Spink/YYYH incident,
everybody was having a "we will never forget" sig,
but seems that they have forgotten.

MarkG/DanQ/Ming: would I get banned if I started
"free steward spink and YYYH"-tread now?
just for nostalgia

Lincoln · June 13, 2002, 18:46

Quote:

Originally posted by Boshko

GS by any change? I forget
I also got atheized, Eroberer moved around politically a lot, Imran got sane, and BD stopped being pro-drug war. All I can remember off the top of my head.

I think it was Bill something.

Az · June 13, 2002, 18:55

wow. I think that goes with Stefu latest thread very well. I found one of my first posts on apolyton. Of course , some people here posted on apolyton for so long , that there is no way that search site would find them. boardreader.com

Sirotnikov · June 13, 2002, 20:14

Quote:

Originally posted by Kropotkin

Oh well, some things do not change after all.

Never heard of verbatim quoting?

S. Kroeze and Gnu are giving me a lecture on it.

Come inside for a laugh

Sirotnikov · June 13, 2002, 20:17

Quote:

Originally posted by Ron Jeremy
Well who's the first person to turn to if you want change? Pull your finger out and write something yourself.

Well, first of all - I did - a long while ago.

Second - I planned to on April 1st, but the circumstances didn't allow it.

Third - I addressed Imran with several ideas - but he's busy.

Fourth - I've been busy.

Fifth - I believe that this stems from lack of post count. Not that people who post funnny stories seek higher post counts, but it generally makes one feel unappriciated, and by now most of the talented people have left.

I don't need speeches on why it was decided from the mods / owners.

I think they are wrong, but then again, they wanted to kill (put to sleep) the OT.

Imran Siddiqui · June 13, 2002, 20:26

Quote:

And how 'bout Bill3000 and Demesos, not to forget Fascesos? Everybody suu-uuu-ure hated that Demesos.

Ah, Fascesos... that was great! I think BD joined me in creating that

.

And I got sane?! Damn you evil Boshko! ARHGY!

Bosh · June 14, 2002, 00:47

Lincoln: Must have been Bill3000, he took Pascal's Wager if I remember correctly.

Quote:

I guess I posted something in the CTP general forum and you started a thread or at least wrote a post asking about my name. We must have been young and good-looking back then.

Yeah the closest thing we had to leftists besides me then were a lot of SocDems so I was outnumbered badly and I saw your name deduced the obvious and asked for back up. You said you weren't interested in off-topic posting if I remember correctly

DinoDoc · June 14, 2002, 01:03

Never mind

Kropotkin · June 14, 2002, 05:54

Quote:

Originally posted by Boshko
You said you weren't interested in off-topic posting if I remember correctly.

I wasn't?

DarkCloud · June 14, 2002, 11:13

orange-

QUOTE
I remember the failed Exodus to the Mod Asylum...i forget when...had to be over a year ago at least...the mods did something....probably took away post counts in the OT or something...I forget what, and me and a few others fled to the mod asylum in hopes that everyone would join us...they didn't.
ENDQUOTE

I dont think anyone knew about that... I certainly never heard of it

and anyways didnàt the Mod Asylum exist BEFORE CGN which came after the OT took away post counts?

--
QUOTE
Well it is nice to be remembered. It is interesting how views change over the years. I certainly have become better educated since I came here. I have also seen several people switch sides completely.
END QUOTE

welcome back lincoln- when did you return, a month ago?
are you now in California?
Having a good time

DarkCloud · June 14, 2002, 11:17

Didnàt infatuation shift sides as wel from anti to pro american?

QUOTE
I believe that this stems from lack of post count. Not that people who post funnny stories seek higher post counts, but it generally makes one feel unappriciated, and by now most of the talented people have left.
END QUOTE

Ah yes, thatàs why The Brain left

Bill3000 and others

I wish stories were allowed in the OT

in all the time Iàve been here they have died in Diplomacy forums

oh well

Imran Siddiqui · June 14, 2002, 11:49

Quote:

Third - I addressed Imran with several ideas - but he's busy.

Hey, don't blame it on me, ya ****er

. Just because I'm the comedic genius of both of us doesn't mean I have to keep writing. I'm just living on my reputation is all

.

I wish Stories would be allowed here too

.

November Adam · June 14, 2002, 11:50

I remember the attempt at a debate group, we almost finished our abortion debate then it stalled on the closing argument.

Guess people have lives, ah well.

I don't know why someone would want to go to newsmax, where would be the fun if everyone agreed with you.

Granted I should check it out to see how a moderate Christian would be treated.

Sirotnikov · June 14, 2002, 11:57

What exactly are stories?

axi · June 14, 2002, 12:08

I first visited Apolyton in the 30th of August 1999. I was back from my vacations and I was bored. Until then, I had never visited any message boards, although it was almost a year that I owned a PC. I was fascinated about all the stuff you could find on civ2 in these boards. Lurked for a couple of days and then registrated in September 9th. My fist post was in civ2 strategy, where I asked some question for which the answer was so obvious, that I was indignantly told by some old fart to RTFM (read the ****ing manual) which of course I did not posess because I had borrowed the CD from a friend, installed the game and gave it back.

Soon after that I discovered the OT. I was lurking for quite some time. My first real engagement in OT conversations was in a really hot debate, concerning the right of government to collect taxes. All of the holy monsters of flaming were in that, including Wraith, Black Dragon, Eroberer as the main contesters and all the other big dogs participating too (including Ming). The debates back then were a bit different looking than nowdays because there were no quotes at that old version of ubb. I was overwhelmed by the fierceness by which Wraith and BD supported such a conservative position which may be quite common in the US and in Apolyton, but would be totally untenable inside my own social environment. One might say that I had not yet discovered the vast differences in the mindsets of people across the globe and that I assumed that everyboday was thinking the way a modern Greek would. So I countered Wraith with a totally immature and inexperienced attack in the very essence of capitalism: private property. That was a big audacity from my part but thanfully only Ming considered my newbie status to accuse me of being a DL (of Eroberer). Perhaps back then newbies were faced with less suspicion. I will quote here my first post in that debate (of course I quit the debate after a while because I could not read page after page after page of crossfire, but, being my first experience, it is stuck into my memory.

Quote:

WRAITH:
" Beg pardon? Are we going back to the tired old "property is theft" argument? It's perfectly possible to create something without stealing. "

I believe that your esteem towards the advocates of such an argument (that is Proudhon and his successors, the anarchists and the liberal communists) is low, but how can you call this argument "tired" (What does this mean anyway? That you are tired of having it pointed out to you every time you post?) without having it logically examined it and disproved?
Although I haven't read the actual study by Proudhon (Since it is too large, I haven't had the time yet, but if you want to, you can find it in the Project Gutenberg archives: http://promo.net/pg/ ), I firmly believe that PROPERTY IS THEFT, although, as you have said, it's perfectly possible to create something without stealing.
As a matter of fact, since participating in a society, everybody has the moral obligation (and should have the legal too) to produce as much value as he can, in order to contribute to the welfare and progress of the community, in exchange for the privilege to partain to its benefits. Nevertheless, this doesn't happen in any western society, where quite a lot of people enjoy more than their share without ever doing a day's work (eg. stockholders), or, worse, an even greater amount of people gets away with their "work" being actually detrimental to the common interest (eg. warmongers), or at least beneficial to themselves only, since their trades are parasitic and in no way productive (eg. lawyers). All these social deformities are only made possible because these people, by claiming to have property and the right to defend it (the first being impossible without the second), legalize their anti-social behavior. Property becomes thus the greatest thieving mechanism ever concieved, since the person possessing it has the option of either using his priviledge to prevail in any competitive task, or, worse, using it to swindle the other people's production out of their hands by means of a capitalist relationship (the infinite circle of capital-labor-wages-production-consumption-capital...and so on), which is more profitable and less effort demanding, since, after the first stage, it works for itself yielding more and more property (aka power) to the hands of the proprietor.
All of the above though are only indicating that property USUALLY leads to theft, in the same way that a buildup of military forces usually leads to war, since these forces are useless for anything else. In fact, a large property owned by a single person is, pretty much in the same way, useless for him (since he can only consume a small portion of it), unless he needs it to steal from the others, in order to keep them subjugated and thus perpetuate his priviledge. I am now going to suggest that, even if it is not used in such a way, property is still theft, and that it should be done away with sooner or later, in our effort to finally reach utopia. Why should the fact that you have produced them make any goods in your possession your private property? If I were working in a toy factory, and I were producing 1000 toys per annum, wouldn't it be ridiculous if I claimed that all those toys were mine and nobody should play with them. Sure I would need 2-3 of them for my kids, but all the rest would be useless if they were not given to other peoples kids, to be THEIR toys. This example is to demonstrate the fundamental principle that all goods produced should be distributed according to peoples needs, regardless of their productive capacity. That means that only if I NEED something, it is my RIGHT to have it, and then I am not its PROPRIETOR but its USER. The fact that, concerning the distribution of goods,the principle of UTILITY is far better than the principle of PROPERTY is proved by the evident fact that the former is totally more beneficial to the average person and consequently to society as a whole. Therefore, if you use the claim that certain goods are your property in order to withold them from the people who have the natural right to use them, you are commiting theft against them and you behave anti-socially. Any society based upon the principle of property is a huge scam, staged by thieves, for two main reasons:
a) To keep them thieving us perpetually without them ever being punished and
b) To appease their own concience by twisting ethics in order to suit their actions.
Living in such a perverted society causes ethics to be severely distorted, their distortion growing bigger as property grows, pretty much what happens to a spring supporting a load that always grows heavier. You, living under the enormous influence of the social and ethical system that surrounds you, may denounce my arguments (say that I'm talking bull), but, hey, our ethics are different, so I pretty much do not expect you to behave otherwise. As long as I'm concerned, all kinds of welfare taxes that the US or any other government forces to its citizens, are just some kind of corrective - preventive measures, to assure that the load on the spring does never grow so big that it could make it snap, in other words causing revolution. As for those who constantly grumble about the government stealing their money, they should just consider those taxes as a small retaliation for the theft that they are constantly commiting against their peers.

Two months later, I was involved in Mark Everson's Clash of Civilisations project and that hooked me up in Apolyton for good. However I am a rather slow poster (at 0,7 ppd) and with the scarcity of my writings, I have kept a rather low profile during most of my time here.

Bugs ****ing Bunny · June 14, 2002, 12:27

Quote:

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui

I wish Stories would be allowed here too

.

Provided they don't overwhelm the place, nobody objects. I've never had one of mine moved.

Imran Siddiqui · June 14, 2002, 12:36

Ah, but I'd like them to overwhelm the place

. I mean, the most stories we've had at one time were 5, IIRC. There is a rule that no more than one story may be on the OT at one time (Ming's Rule of Stories).

Ming · June 14, 2002, 12:51

Quote:

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui
Ah, but I'd like them to overwhelm the place

. I mean, the most stories we've had at one time were 5, IIRC. There is a rule that no more than one story may be on the OT at one time (Ming's Rule of Stories).

And when was the last time a story actually lasted more than a day on the OTF...

It seems like the rule isn't even needed.

Maybe you should get off your lazy butt and start another one.

And I'll make you a deal. If you get a "good" one going, maybe I'll consider allowing a second to be going on at the same time. But the opperative word is "good"

SpencerH · June 14, 2002, 13:24

I have no olden days memories, I've forgotten them. Something about creeks or geeks or ... I still have pages of CIV2 unit graphics stored away from whatever site that was.

Imran Siddiqui · June 14, 2002, 13:32

Quote:

And I'll make you a deal. If you get a "good" one going, maybe I'll consider allowing a second to be going on at the same time. But the opperative word is "good"

WOOOHOOO! Time to get crackin'!

Ming · June 14, 2002, 14:08

Quote:

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui WOOOHOOO! Time to get crackin'!

You do that... and make it as good as some of your past great stories

Memories... ahhh... so many...

When responses to your posts on the ole Greek site were measured in days instead of hours or minutes...

When the old gang from the "Addicted to Civ" web site came over to the Greek site when Addicted shut down...

When people were asking "What the heck does Apolyton mean" when the merger occured...

When there was no OTF... just general disucssion forums for the different games...

The merger of the general forums into the OTF...

Getting sucked into being a Mod...

The story threads...

The endless political and religious threads...
(hmmm... it's still that way)

Area 25...

Black whatever...

When Spinks used to post under his real name...

The April Fools joke... boy, did we Suck MtG in...

All the old posters... All the old DL's...

EVC's rantings... and his DL's...

So many Memories... not enough time...

Imran Siddiqui · June 14, 2002, 14:16

Ming, already have a few ideas... just need to bounce them off people.

The #1 idea right now (with a bare bones plot in my head) is 'The Sum of All Beers'.

#2 idea is the 'World Cup Excellent Adventure'.

Just for Siro or someone half-way amusing to come on ICQ

.