On the Utility and Use of Marines - Page 6

Hot_Enamel · January 15, 2004, 01:48

MattPilot

Turn 1 after my invasion, Tibi destroyed every unit I had left behind in his territory.

Turn 2, he started moving a Stack towards my border.
(He was hampered by me pillaging his roads with Explorers & foresting tiles to limit his movements.)

His ally, Imtoops, has also begun to move a stack towards my border.
Again..Imtoops has been slowed by me pillaging roads & planting forests.

Turn 3
Tibi's stack has moved into position...but before he can attack..I destroy it and take all of his artillary

Imtoops stack, is still a few turns away.

Mat... I have never had slaves when I disband a city. Perhaps the slaves you got, were workers that were hiding in the city when you attacked.

notyoueither · January 15, 2004, 03:12

Raze when capture will give you slaves. Abandon after capture will not. I don't think raze on capture is an option in PBEM, is it? [None of my PBEMs have allowed a situation where I could capture a city, for a very long while now.]

vmxa1 · January 15, 2004, 03:43

I think the reason transports hold 6 is if you are loading an army.
They have held 8 since day 1.

MrWhereItsAt · January 15, 2004, 05:34

I was dead silent upon reading all that, Hot_E...

Up until I saw the 'doughnut' result. Sorry, I couldn't help but actually laugh out loud! I'm so glad I'm alone in this computer lab - they might have noticed I'm not actually working.....

Full kudos to Tib for his sportsmanship

Sorry for laughing dude, but, wow!

steven8r · January 15, 2004, 12:48

Quote:

Originally posted by vmxa1
I think the reason transports hold 6 is if you are loading an army.
They have held 8 since day 1.

Ok, I stand corrected.... or corrupted.....actually, I'm sitting.

"Information Assimilated" :salute:

Thanks,

Steven

Arrian · January 15, 2004, 13:24

Transports in CivIII/PTW carried 8 units. In Conquests, they carry 6.

-Arrian

vmxa1 · January 15, 2004, 15:32

Quote:

Originally posted by Arrian
Transports in CivIII/PTW carried 8 units. In Conquests, they carry 6.

-Arrian

Correct, but the game was before C3C came out. Ah, so hard to keep it straight, which game are we discussing. I should have been clearer, sorry.

Tiberius · January 15, 2004, 18:50

Quote:

Originally posted by notyoueither
Ahh. So not all of his interior cities were empty. How many were defended?

I loaded the save before the attack, and New Thebes (the FP) was defended by one Inf. By mistake, I suppose, because all my other inner cities were empty (except for Pi-Ramesse, which was close to the shore and also defended by one inf). Damn it, I was planning to bring in at least one infantry per city in my undefended core. Too late ...

Quote:

Second question, who will now keep at least 1 inf per city regardless of position once anyone gets near Marines (or an earlier defender if Berzerks are out there)?

Except for Pi-Ramesses and Giza I lost all my top10 cities (in terms of size, production, commerce and culture) and I don't want to repeat this stunt ever again.

Tiberius · January 15, 2004, 18:55

Quote:

Originally posted by notyoueither
PS. This is exactly what I have been expecting ever since I first started playing around with Marines and finding that they seem to have a bonus when attacking from ship.

Isn't this true only for Conquests? I thought they don't have an attack bonus in PtW.

Tiberius · January 15, 2004, 19:12

Quote:

Originally posted by vmxa1
I was first wondering how many transports are we talking about?
If I saw a single transport, I eye ball it, but don't panic. If I see a second batch, I get very worried. If any of these have more than one transport I am going to get proactive.

I was worried. But I thought he would attack later, with tanks. Obviously I didn't realize that he can take one coastal city (and one - I thought - far from his transports) and then wreak havoc with his 3-move units, taking advantage of my own rails and the cultural borders of every conquered city. If I had realized this danger, I obviously would have reorganized my home defences.

My army was always strong vs. H_E, so there was also a chance that he is playing a bluff, parading his transports and making me spend my resources on building an even bigger army, while he would have been happily researching faster than me and then attack with superior units or win by spaceship launch.

What can I say? My thinking should decrease in quantity and increase in quality

Btw, I should have attacked with Cavalries, long ago (before infantries). The burden of being a builder and not a warmonger

lmtoops · January 15, 2004, 19:57

Ah, I'm been missing some gems in this thread.

For my part, I was truely amazed when I saw Tibi's doughnut. When I figured out what had happened, I counted my luck stars that I was not the victim. The ocean I share with HE is very wide; so I may have been more suspicions, but I truly think I would have suffered the same fate.

Like Tibi, I did not expect attack until tanks (and before Mech. Inf.). Also since our previous (very brief) WW, I thought we had settled into a pattern. I did not think HE would launch an unprevoked surprise invasion. I obviously do not have the warmonger mentality.

I am very impressed with the results. It has definitely changed my defensive approach. It also has me worried about what else HE has planned. I hope that I'm not a victim of another Strategy thread.

notyoueither · January 15, 2004, 20:50

Quote:

Originally posted by Tiberius
Isn't this true only for Conquests? I thought they don't have an attack bonus in PtW.

Back at the beginning of this thread (June 2002) you will see me thinking there is/was a bonus based on my experience with marines. I thought that due to the success I had with them in SP. I found it common for a single marine to kill a fortified infantry straight up, and frequent that a second marine would finish the job if the first failed, without extensive bombardment. This was anecdotal.

A bit later in the first 25 posts, you will see Catt testing this and concluding that the odds seemed normal, ie no bonus. I forgot all about that and went merrily on my way thinking there is a bonus.

Be that as it may, bonus or no bonus... Marines are nasty brutes for just what H_E did with them. All that changes is the quantity needed to effect the same result.

Hot_Enamel · January 15, 2004, 20:51

Quote:

Originally posted by Tiberius

I loaded the save before the attack, and New Thebes (the FP) was defended by one Inf. By mistake, I suppose, because all my other inner cities were empty (except for Pi-Ramesse, which was close to the shore and also defended by one inf).

So I got your Forbidden Palace as well !
I was hoping I would.
Thats why I went straight into your core...and accidently forgot about Pi-Ramesse.

As soon as I realised I skipped it (I checked the wonder screen), I made my biggest mistake by incorrectly checking how many units I had left.
New Thebes finally went down, and I didnt have any cav to take Pi_Ramesse.
If you say it had a inf. defending it, I probably couldnt take it anyway.

But I still was p!ssed for leaving it & Hoovers behind.

Giza was a coastal city, which I knew would have defenders..so I did not even try.

Quote:

Originally posted by lmtoops
It also has me worried about what else HE has planned. I hope that I'm not a victim of another Strategy thread.

Trust me Leo ... I will make sure you will be the first to know

I just have to figure out how to kill your stack first
I dont care how much it costs, I demand more artillary !!!!!

MattPilot · January 15, 2004, 20:57

i'm just curious, when you destroy great wonders, can you rebuild them?

Jaybe · January 15, 2004, 21:02

Quote:

Originally posted by MattPilot
i'm just curious, when you destroy great wonders, can you rebuild them?

No you cannot rebuild them.
You cannot rebuild destroyed Small Wonders, can you??

asleepathewheel · January 16, 2004, 13:38

Quote:

Originally posted by Jaybe
You cannot rebuild destroyed Small Wonders, can you??

yes you can, a particular trick that i've used occassionally is to disband the FP city once I have a prebuild nearly finished in a better location.

BlueTrin · February 1, 2004, 21:13

Maybe they should add some features to marines, like

Ambush: the marine will be unseen in mountains/hill/forests and will attack any unit coming near without revealing its position. Only infantry(not mechanized) and spies can reveal its position. You would have to build some infantry just to protect your armors.

Calm revolts: the infantry would be the only unit in modern era which could quell resistants after invading an enemy city.

Invulnerability to airstrikes: The infantry cannot be attacked by air units (apart helicopters), it would make the helicopters more useful too.

Mad Bomber · February 3, 2004, 03:12

Quote:

Originally posted by BlueTrin
Maybe they should add some features to marines, like

Ambush: the marine will be unseen in mountains/hill/forests and will attack any unit coming near without revealing its position. Only infantry(not mechanized) and spies can reveal its position. You would have to build some infantry just to protect your armors.

Calm revolts: the infantry would be the only unit in modern era which could quell resistants after invading an enemy city.

Invulnerability to airstrikes: The infantry cannot be attacked by air units (apart helicopters), it would make the helicopters more useful too.

I hate to go on rants but these ideas deserve one.

First off the Ambush feature if implememtd AT ALL would be far more appropriate to the Guerilla than the Marine. The marine is a beachhead establishment unit and should remain as such.

Point 2: So the only one that quell Revolts would be a marine? Why would you want that option (other than a justification to build more marines) ? The result would be that any time you took a city over 4 in the modern ages your army would dissapear in city flips

Point 3: Why on earth would marines be invulnerable to airstrikes. This would have a result of destabliizing game play as well as being historically inaccurate

The marines abilities have been enhanced in C3C. if this is not enough for you then use the friggin' editor.