Does any of this really matter?

[Daddy-O]

I have a few questions about Civ2 v2.42 I have only started playing about a month ago and find this site useful but still have questions.

1) Does it matter which tribe I start as?

2) Does it matter who the AI countries are? I mean do the Greeks always act one way and the Russians another?

3) Does it hurt me to discover a new gov't type and then not have a revolution for several turns? I have seen the XXXO thread and I see that it is beneficial the limit the number of turns that my civ is in anarchy but I am unclear of the penalty for not ever revolting.

4) What level should I play at if I ever want to get good? Should I just start playing Diety or work my way throught the several levels?

5) SSC - Super Science City? It looks like this might be useful. I have seen claims of a size 3 putting out 100 beakers per turn. What is the definition of a SSC and how is one built?

6) Channel City? Is this true, I can move land locked boats through cities to water? How close to the water must the city be - next to the city square or next to the city borders? (I'd try these before asking but as you can see I'm hard at work )

7) Scouse Gits, when you say the 'Great Library must be built' are you talking about in the game or here at Apolyton?

[N35t0r]

1) Does it matter which tribe I start as?

-Not exactly. Unless there are definite starting locations and you use them

2) Does it matter who the AI countries are? I mean do the Greeks always act one way and the Russians another?

-Yeah, sort of. Check for their leaders' labels (militaristic, expansionist, etc.) There are three pairs, nothing means they are 'neutral' in this field.
There was a forum on these.


3) Does it hurt me to discover a new gov't type and then not have a revolution for several turns? I have seen the XXXO thread and I see that it is beneficial the limit the number of turns that my civ is in anarchy but I am unclear of the penalty for not ever revolting.

-I think that on some years, you get to choose govt. immediately, and on others you have to wait. No idea, though.

4) What level should I play at if I ever want to get good? Should I just start playing Diety or work my way throught the several levels?

Personally, i started on chieftain and worked myself up. After long periods of not-playing, i start from warlord or king.

5) SSC - Super Science City? It looks like this might be useful. I have seen claims of a size 3 putting out 100 beakers per turn. What is the definition of a SSC and how is one built?

-It is useful. It is basically a city with LOTS of trade-producing squares and all advances and wonders(preferably) which boost science. WLTxD also for govts such as Communism and Fundy.

6) Channel City? Is this true, I can move land locked boats through cities to water? How close to the water must the city be - next to the city square or next to the city borders? (I'd try these before asking but as
you can see I'm hard at work )

-Ships can move from a water tile into an adjacent city. from there, they can move to another water tile.
This way, you can connect an interior lake with the ocean if they are separated by a one-tile ithsmus(SP?)

7) Scouse Gits, when you say the 'Great Library must be built' are you talking about in the game or here at Apolyton?

I'ts a collection of AI cheats and other stuff (i don't know everything) here at Apolyton.

[Prometeus]

A brief answer...

1) Yes, different tribes have different starting optional technologies ( i.e. Mongol optional tech is Bronze Working );
2) Yes, differnt AI have different diplomatic attitudes;
3) No. Not really...
4) A newbie must start with Prince, IMHO... but i can be wrong.
5), 6) I like classic game, so i dislike that kind of strategies or hexediting. After all, a SSC is a hit-point for your enemies...
7) I think SG means o' the game.

[Daddy-O]

Thank you. Any other opinions out there?

[DaveV]

6) If you're desperate enough, you can move boats through any number of land squares, as follows:

a) Build a city.
b) Move the boats into that city.
c) Disband that city, leaving the boats beached.
d) Build another city, adjacent to the boats.
e) go to step b

7) The Great Library would be a section of Apolyton summarizing all of the amazing discoveries, tips, and strategies buried in the countless threads on this site. Most of the better players at this site do not advocate building the Great Library in a single-player game.

[Daddy-O]

re: the Great Library in SP games. Why not build it? Is it waste of resources or does it make things too easy?

[DaveV]

A succinct arguement against the Great Library in Single-Player games:

1. The AI research path is, shall we say, less than optimal.
2. Each tech you acquire makes subsequent techs cost more beakers to research.
3. Good players make a beeline for their favorite techs and don't want their progress slowed by picking up some garbage techs from the GL.

[Daddy-O]

Thank you. I did not know about your second point and if I'm being penalized for junk techs then the GL is junk. That is, unless someone gets to gunpowder before me.

[Rufus T. Firefly]

Some answers, one newbie to another:
1) There are apparently some differences depending which tribe you start as, but I've played as most of them and never noticed any significant effect on my game.

2) There are differences; you should learn to hate the Russians and the Mongols very quickly.

4) I started a thread in the strategy section called "the quantum leap from Prince to King," where others confirmed my sense that playing well at Prince didn't really prepare you for the higher levels -- that it's a very different game from King on up. So, logically, if you want to get good at Diety, you should probably start no lower than King. I'm still glad I started lower, though; it helped me get a good overall sense of the game and probably kept me from giving up in frustration.

5) I love the SSC (which consists of building the Collossus, the Observatory, and Isaac Newton in the same city, and generating lots of trade for that city through improvements and caravans). But I generally shoot for an Aplpha Centuri win; if I were trying to conquor the world, I'm not sure it would be so important.

7) The Great Library is a great example of a wonder that's fine at lower levels but irrelevant or even a drawback at higher levels. At prince or lower, I tend to build it for two reasons: to pick up military techs while I research other stuff (this is particularly fun when you also have Leonardo's; other civs keep upgrading your military!) and to keep the advantage away from other civs. But at higher levels, it's something of a drawback in research and there are other early wonders that deserve your attention more.

Hope that helps!

------------------
Dig trenches, with our men being killed off like flies? There isn't time to dig trenches. We'll have to buy them ready made. Here, run out and get some trenches.
-- Rufus T. Firefly, the original rush-builder

[East Street Trader]

quote: Originally posted by skrobism on 11-07-2000 01:21 PM 5) SSC - Super Science City? It looks like this might be useful. I have seen claims of a size 3 putting out 100 beakers per turn. What is the definition of a SSC and how is one built?

The essence of the SSC idea is simply to concentrate the development of one particular city on creating science beakers. So what you do is build the Collosus there (trade arrows generate beakers); build a library asap; get three good trade routes in asap; build Copernicus Observatory and Isaac Newton's there and then build a university and a research lab there. You will probably do all this in your capital because it has no corruption. But you also want at least one trade special within the city radius (say spice or gold) so you may have to choose a different city (although for a number of reasons I commend trying very hard to find a trade special before founding your capital).

You will have seen references to OCC (the One City Challenge). Maximising science output in the One City is the master key to success at OCC and there is an outstanding description of the strategy required in Paul's OCC (you can find a link on the second page of the Great Library thread in the strategy forum - tried to include the link here but have yet to master how that is done). The strategy get's referred to as "the Paulicy" in honour of its primary developer. Of course there is more to the Paulicy than the master key but I think you will be able to see the way the SSC idea runs through what is said. It's also a good read generally.

An SSC is good fun and satisfying to build so in that sense it matters. But there are many other ways to win so in that sense, no it doesn't.

Oh, and on questions 1 and 2, white civs (say, the Romans) get to move first (not very significant) and you can make use of knowing the characteristics of the other civs in a variety of ways. For example, if your nearest neighbours are the mongols or the vikings you must fight them. In the medium term they will not peacefully co-exist. If they neighbours are, say, the Americans, they will co-exist and will research down peaceful lines. So you may choose to contain them rather then wiping them out. I have seen a suggestion that it makes sense early on to maintain an alliance with a peacefully minded civ and with a (distant) warlike civ so that you can trade for the different techs each will research. In the long term, though, these are not really big points either.

The big points concern getting the right balance between food production, science production, shield production and unit production (oh and exploration is very important too). If the balance is wrong you won't expand fast enough, will experience unhappiness problems, won't keep up in the tech race, or will not be able to maintain your defences. By and large, food and shield production are the easier parts to get a good feel for. It is trade arrows that you will need to work on. The message in the threads is encapsulated in the oft repeated advice, if you have no good reason to do otherwise, build another caravan, - and having done that then build some more. I'll leave you to discover how to use the caravans once you have managed to build them. They are a versatile unit.


[This message has been edited by East Street Trader (edited November 08, 2000).]

[Scouse Gits]

Skrobism - It is no great deal if a civ gets Gunpowder before you do - just steal it! Gunpowder by itself is just a defensive tech allowing musketeers. It is more of a threat if another civ reaches Chivalry (knights) or Monotheism (crusaders) before you. Steal these techs quickly!
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SG (2)

hey, the Scouse Gits login has finally reached King level!

[Daddy-O]

Scouse Gits,

Thanks, I will keep that in mind.

[N35t0r]

of course, you would wnt to build it to prevent AI civs from having it.