Suggestion for PtW-buildings needed for making units

[The_Aussie_Lurker]

Hi Guys,

I've had this thought that, especially for the late game, their are a number of good units which don't require any strategic resources to build. What I was thinking was that it would be great if, in order to build them, you needed certain improvements or Sm. Wonders. For example, to build marines and paratroopers, you might need a "Special Forces Training Centre" which, in turn, might require that you have 5 barracks in your empire! Another example might be a "modern armoury" for the construction of tanks and other motorized units. This might, in turn, require either a steelworks or a factory and a power plant! A munitions plant might be neccessary to build infantry and other modern footsoldiers. Again, this might, in it's turn, require a factory!

The means to include such a feature, even just for the Mod Community, would be relatively simple! You'd simply have to pool the flags for units and buildings!
For example, in order to build a university you need a library. The flag which makes such a condition possible for buildings could be applied to units!!
Anyway, it's just an idea I had. Feel free to point out all the flaws in my reasoning (I'm sure there are LOTS) but, good or bad, I'd like to know what you guys think, especially Firaxians!!

Yours,
The_Aussie_Lurker.

[Mongoloid Cow]

that, and the ability for improvements and wonders to need the necessary resources in their borders, not just a rule for the sm wonders

[The_Aussie_Lurker]

Actually, I had always hoped that they would POOL all the flags for buildings AND units. Certainly the people behind the editor mentioned that pooling all the flags for Wonders, improvements and Sm. Wonders was on their wishlist! If this were to happen, I could envisage Sm. Wonders and Wonders being modded to grant the abilities of certain improvements, but nation-wide! I could also see the ability to create improvemefts and sm. wonders which could become OBSOLETE!!
Of course, pooling these flags with those of units would not only allow the buildings needed for units idea, but would also allow a situation where you could, if I understand things correctly, make units TRULY OBSOLETE! (Where they cease to function?) This would be particularly useful for a unit I had in mind. A slave unit which requires the "resource" Indigenous Populations. Later, when you get the Tech Emancipation (a non-mandatory tech deriving from democracy) this unit loses it's terraforming abilities! Meaning you either have to disband it, or integrate it into one of your cities!
Anyway, I just hope that this dream can become reality!

Yours,
The_Aussie_Lurker.

[Ninot]

got some good ideas there.

[star mouse]

It's a good idea, although it is not necessary to introduce new buildings for the most part. Here's some ideas:

Chariot, Horsemen, Knight, Cavalry: Require Stables.

Mech Inf, tanks, modern armor: Require Factory.

Infantry, riflemen: Require barracks (because they need equipment and the barracks is where the equipment is stored)

[The_Aussie_Lurker]

I agree, Starmouse, that for the basic game you would probably have units require existing buildings to make. But I know that quite a few modders, once they had that set of tools, would create a whole HOST of new buildings neccessary JUST for making units!! (Count me amongst them!)
I'm glad you mentioned Stables, though. I was thinking that you could have Corrals, which require horses, and a stable as a small wonder requiring 5 corrals. Then, all mounted units which used to require horses would just need a stable instead!!! This would represent the fact that you can now BREED horses! So, even if you lose your horses, you can still build mounted units (though your stuffed if you lose your stable!)

Yours,
The_Aussie_Lurker

[Jethro83]

Now those are good ideas.

[Panag]

Originally posted by LordAzreal
Now those are good ideas.

hi ,

, great , how about a port to make warship's , ....

have a nice day

[Andrew_Jay]

And airports for at least Jet and stealth aircraft. Since all Airports do are provide another trade link and make veteran aircraft, I don't usually build them till I already have most of my airforce constructed, having forgotten these buildings. And of course, port makes sense too, also in later ages. Perhaps triemes and caravels are the only boats you can't make without ports/harbours. Not having a harbour always seemed weird to me.

"So I guess they'll just run that battleship up onto the beach and make the repairs there like it was a little fishing skif? "

[Bleyn]

As I understood it, the Firaxis team specifically chose not to require resources for certain units in the later eras in order to insure that a player lacking resources would never be too far behind the curve in military power. It would be very annoying to have the complete tech tree researched and be stuck with spearmen and archers due to a lack of resources.

In the basic game, I think requiring buildings as a pre-req. for unit construction would go against the intent and spirit of that idea.

However, in a modded scenerio, I might not be totally disagreeable with the concept, assuming it were done well. There is thing I would want to see however. That is slowed research and an extention of the potential length of the game, preferably in proportion. Reason for this is that as it stands, its too easy to pick up new techs at a such a rate that you never bother utilizing more than a small handful of the units in a game simply because most of them are obselete before you get a good chance to use them. Adding a building requirement would just make a lot of units even less likely to be used. If research were slowed down, and the game made longer, we'd be less likely to be playing a game of scramble-to-keep-up in the building and unit construction departments.

And there is a mod that I wouldn't mind seeing thrown in with this if Firaxis were to make it possible, which I doubt. That is requiring resources and/or buildings as a prerequisite for certain techs. Ie. You want nuclear power, you'd better have uranium. You want Military tradition, you'ld better have a few towns with barracks in them. I would still want it possible to trade for or steal them without having those prereq.s but requiring them for direct research would be interesting. Or maybe somehow set them up so that if you don't have the prereqs you can still do the research, it will just take a lot longer. That would prevent someone from getting stuck because the Zulu have all the uranium at the moment and they don't even know it.

[The_Aussie_Lurker]

Actually, apart from requiring Barracks, Port/Harbour and Airport for all Land/Naval and Air units respectively, I really saw this suggestion in light of it's usefulness to Mod-Makers and Scenario writers!
For my part I'd love a situation where you destroy an enemies Munitions Plant in an artillery bombardment, thus eliminating that cities ability to produce new infantry! It might also be useful in WWII scenario's, where you send out strategic bombers to try and take out the enemies armouries and aerospace facilities!!

Some Ideas that I have had for a future Mod, if this editing capability is included, are:

Preceptory--->Requires Church--->Needed to build Crusaders and Missionaries.

Weaponsmith---> Requires Forge--->Needed to build most non-gunpowder units in the Middle Ages.

Smithy--->Needed to build all non-mounted ancient units except spearman and warrior.

Barracks--->Needed to build all ground units (non-mounted, non-motorized)

Aircraft Manufacturer--->Requires Factory--->Needed to build non-stealth air units.

Armoury---->Requires Steelworks--->Needed to build motorized ground units (Tanks, Mech Infantry)

Munitions Plant--->Requires Factory--->Needed to build infantry and artillery units.

Of course, many of the aformentioned improvements would also give a production bonus and, in some cases, pollution. It might also give people more stuff to build in the modern era!!

Anyway, fingers CROSSED!!!

Yours,
The_Aussie_Lurker.

[Panag]

hi ,

great idea's , and we dont even have enough for new units and buildings , there is even place for more era's , ....

have a nice day

[kring]

Very excellent suggestions, all. Maybe they will listen to you, and implement.

[Andrew_Jay]

I'm just curious, what do you mean by:

the Firaxis team specifically chose not to require resources for certain units in the later eras in order to insure that a player lacking resources would never be too far behind the curve in military power. It would be very annoying to have the complete tech tree researched and be stuck with spearmen and archers due to a lack of resources.

Are you refering to all late game units in general or just units like riflemen? Because it's my understanding that most of the late game units require as many as three different resources, while others require at least rubber or oil.

[Non Flammable]

Don't forget the one we already have:

Manhattan Project - Tactical Nukes and ICBMs. It be nice if they switched this one to the customizable system you are talking about.

Cheers!

[Adagio]

Originally posted by Andrew_Jay
I'm just curious, what do you mean by:

the Firaxis team specifically chose not to require resources for certain units in the later eras in order to insure that a player lacking resources would never be too far behind the curve in military power. It would be very annoying to have the complete tech tree researched and be stuck with spearmen and archers due to a lack of resources.

Are you refering to all late game units in general or just units like riflemen? Because it's my understanding that most of the late game units require as many as three different resources, while others require at least rubber or oil.

Isn't riflemen the "newest" unit, that doesn't require any resources? If all newer units (including riflemen) requires resources, then we'd have a civ that can only build spearmen as defense, so what they had done to fix it, is good, but (I guess) it can be done better:

All industrial/modern units require resources of some sort. BUT if yuo don't have the needed resource(s), then there's a cheaper model (of most units needing resources) avaliable. This cheaper model, doesn't require any resource at all, but this cheaper model will then only have a little of the attack/defense strenght the original unit has.

this idea could fix the problem seeing tons of horsemen running around in the modern ages, by giving them e.g. a cheap tank it doesn't look that bad, but they still don't get the powers of the tank...

Of course there's some units, that can't be made cheaper...

Anyway, back to topic...Those ideas are great, I really hope the Firaxians are listening to those ideas, it will after all be easy to implent...

[Panag]

Originally posted by Non Flammable
Don't forget the one we already have:

Manhattan Project - Tactical Nukes and ICBMs. It be nice if they switched this one to the customizable system you are talking about.

Cheers!

hi ,

this wonder should be looked at again , make it a big wonder , and when you build it you get one or two tacticals for free , and everynation should have to build a small wonder to get to nukes , after they have build at least one nuklear powerplant , ....

the same should apply to the nation that has build the bigwonder , after a nuke plant , ...

have a nice day

[The_Aussie_Lurker]

For my part, Panag, I still hold to the view that the Manhattan Project should be a minor Wonder which each Civ must build in order to build nuclear weapons (though there should be the option to grant the wonders benefits to an ally!). I do agree with you, though, that the project should give you a bonus nuclear unit when you finish building TMP, which would default as a Tactical Nuke, but which could be altered in the editor (I'd actually change this default to an atomic bomb-same general stats as a tac nuke, but must be carried on an appropriate transport plane!). I also do believe that Nuclear weapons should require a nuclear power plant in order to build (as they do in real life!).

Yours,
The_Aussie_Lurker.

[Panag]

Originally posted by The_Aussie_Lurker
For my part, Panag, I still hold to the view that the Manhattan Project should be a minor Wonder which each Civ must build in order to build nuclear weapons (though there should be the option to grant the wonders benefits to an ally!). I do agree with you, though, that the project should give you a bonus nuclear unit when you finish building TMP, which would default as a Tactical Nuke, but which could be altered in the editor (I'd actually change this default to an atomic bomb-same general stats as a tac nuke, but must be carried on an appropriate transport plane!). I also do believe that Nuclear weapons should require a nuclear power plant in order to build (as they do in real life!).

Yours,
The_Aussie_Lurker.

hi ,

, nuke's , a lot has been said about them , and more shall follow , ....

the manhattan project should give you two nuke's , no more , ....and it should be a great wonder .

if you want to build more nuke's later on , you would have to have a source of uranium , at least one nuclear plant and a small wonder that would let you build these nuke's , .....

other wonders , yes there is room for at least 20 more , ten big one's and ten small ones , ...

the canal's could change a lot , crossing by sea-units , walking over by land-units , ....
maybe not as a wonder , but it would make a lot of people happy if they are in the editor , .....
this way you could put them on the map , .....

maybe a missili silo as a small wonder would have to be build , or something like an ICBM control facility , before you could have ICBM's , ......

, there are so many things that could be in , ...

have a nice day