Flying Settlers

Winterlord · June 19, 2002, 12:14

I'm just curious if any one can give me an explination as to why neither settlers nor workers can be shipped between airports.

Arrian · June 19, 2002, 12:20

They are supposed to represent a LARGE number of people.

Now if you could tell me why a leader can't be airlifted, I'd be interested.

-Arrian

Winterlord · June 19, 2002, 12:30

Quote:

Originally posted by Arrian
They are supposed to represent a LARGE number of people.

Now if you could tell me why a leader can't be airlifted, I'd be interested.

-Arrian

Well, I also assume that an Infantry Unit represent a large number of soldiers also, but I can fly wherever, whenever (more then ever since 1.21f).

I guess I forgot about Leaders. Seems like such a waste of time for me to have to move Transports back and forth, back and forth. Assuming that I even have any free.

Jaybe · June 19, 2002, 13:25

Settlers, Workers, Leaders, Armies (those you build), and bombardment units cannot be airlifted.

For these "specialist" units, get a boat.
More of a play-balance issue than anything else. Airlift capacity is way too much as it is, and greatly compensates for players' perception of sea-lift capacity being too small because of low movement point values.

If you want to complain about things not being 'realistic', complain about Modern Armor being airlift capable. A single C-5 transport can lift TWO M-1 tanks. I think one heavy armored brigade was airlifted to the gulf for Desert Shield, and it was a major effort to do so.

Disclaimer: I do not claim that Modern Armor represents M-1 tanks, just as I do not claim that Bomber represents B-17 bombers.

Arrian · June 19, 2002, 14:27

Despite the fact that the unit icons look just like the Abrams and B-17

You're absolutely right, though. Mechanized units should not be airliftable, but I think leaders should be (not that it really matters that late in the game). Though they are long obselete by the time you have flight, horse units should probably not be airliftable either.

-Arrian

Carver · June 19, 2002, 14:47

You can always go into Civ3edit and check that flag.

SomeOneElse · June 19, 2002, 16:09

Because that's the way it was designed. I think it balances play. I play mostly continents anyway, and not warmonger at that, so all my cities are railroaded by the time I need to move instantly from one city to another anyway.

Arrian · June 19, 2002, 16:35

Quote:

Originally posted by Carver
You can always go into Civ3edit and check that flag.

Yeah, I could, but for some reason I dislike making changes to the game. Besides, I almost never use airlifting, so I have no reason to change it. It's just not very important to me.

-Arrian

Cookie Monster · June 19, 2002, 16:46

I think many people dislike making changes to the original game. Modding and scenarios a different story.

I dabbled in the beginning with making changes to the game and do not do it anymore.

I realized that the only way I can become 1337 is to be able to beat Civ3 on random everything at Deity and then do it again in MP! BWWWWAAHhhahahahhaha

Sorry, lost it there for a second. It was a long day today.......

Capt Dizle · June 20, 2002, 03:11

I think we should be able to air lift cities out of areas of cultural peril. It wouldn't be realistic but it would balance gameplay.

Coracle · June 20, 2002, 04:57

Why is it that Firaxis, after three patches insists that War Elephants can be airlifted (like Dumbo??), but leaders cannot? Firaxis thinks seventy ton tanks can be airlifted, and herds of horses. Gimme a break.

Answer: sloppy, careless programming. Edit it back to reality.

Coracle · June 20, 2002, 04:59

Quote:

Originally posted by Haupt. Dietrich
I think many people dislike making changes to the original game. Modding and scenarios a different story.

If I could not have Edited the ridiculous, non-historical, and goofy values that Firaxis slapped together I'd have sold this turkey on E-Bay last December for an old CD of
Civ 1.

Coracle · June 20, 2002, 05:00

Quote:

Originally posted by jimmytrick
I think we should be able to air lift cities out of areas of cultural peril. It wouldn't be realistic but it would balance gameplay.

It's as realistic as Culture Flipping.

dunk · June 20, 2002, 10:07

Quote:

Originally posted by Coracle
Why is it that Firaxis, after three patches insists that War Elephants can be airlifted (like Dumbo??), but leaders cannot? Firaxis thinks seventy ton tanks can be airlifted, and herds of horses. Gimme a break.

Answer: sloppy, careless programming. Edit it back to reality.

Do you refuse to admit that Dumbo Drop is a valid reason as to why elephants can be airlifted?

Why? If a Disney movie with Joey Tribiani in it doesn't convince you, nothing will.

Capt Dizle · June 20, 2002, 10:11

Walt Disney named an elephant Joey Tribiani?

Marquis de Sodaq · June 20, 2002, 10:24

Attack=0 units cannot fly. Why, I don't know, but there you have it.

kring · June 20, 2002, 10:39

You forgot Explorers; surely, they aren't any bigger than any military unit?

Last I heard, only 1 M1 could be airlifted, with part of a second one.

dunk · June 20, 2002, 12:34

Quote:

Originally posted by jimmytrick
Walt Disney named an elephant Joey Tribiani?

Perhaps, but that's not the intent of my post.

Matt LeBlanc, star of the popular US sitcom "Friends" has a role in the film "Dumbo Drop" as a US military officer who is charged with the task of airlifting an elephant to a zoo or somesuch. Zany adventures and many guffaws occur along the way, but in the end, the elephant is safely delivered to its destination.

Ogie Oglethorpe · June 20, 2002, 12:38

Quote:

Originally posted by jimmytrick
Walt Disney named an elephant Joey Tribiani?

They used a different spelling tho' in order to prevent lawsuit with NBC.

philippe666 · June 20, 2002, 14:18

its stupid and sloppy programming.the programmer should be shot.

King of Rasslin · June 21, 2002, 08:44

Phillippe666, Coracle, you 2 just don't make navies? I mean, just move the leader on the railroad or put him in a transport! How hard is that?

I agree that cavalry shouldn't be airlifted, but neither should leaders. Give me a break, you know that it would be unbalancing to the game to get him to your capitol in 1 turn.

The AI is excellent compared to CtP. Try programming it yourself and see how hard it is.

Loopy · June 21, 2002, 11:36

How can it possibly be considered sloppy progamming if the flag's there? Settlers and workers, in addition to representing a gameplay unit, are 2 population points and 1 population point respectively. Being able to airlift in population into captured cities would unbalance the game in terms of pop rushing, culture flipping, and city production. Very clearly a game design issue and not "sloppy" programming.

Leaders are also a game play issue. They're given three movement and no defense for a reason -- so you have to walk the leader to the city where you want to use it. Before you use the leader to rush a project or build an army, there's the risk that it'll be destroyed. That risk helps tone down the strength of leaders.

Armies could either be game design or sloppy programming. You could argue game design in that airlifting in a defensive army pretty much guarantees the city won't be taken. It could also be sloppy programming in that the programmers were having a hard time keeping the units together (see early stack movement).

Just because it's not the way you would have made it or because you wish you could exploit something doesn't make it stupid and sloppy programming.

Winterlord · June 21, 2002, 11:42

Quote:

Originally posted by Loopy
How can it possibly be considered sloppy progamming if the flag's there? Settlers and workers, in addition to representing a gameplay unit, are 2 population points and 1 population point respectively. Being able to airlift in population into captured cities would unbalance the game in terms of pop rushing, culture flipping, and city production.

THANK YOU!
I just wanted a reasonable, and intelligent rationale for not being able to Airlift Workers.
They things I program suck pretty bad, so I would never accuse the people who wrote my favorite game of sloppyness. They had their reasons. I mean you can change the game as much as you want, I do it, but I like to understand the reasons Fir. had in mind when they made their game. Your answer makes sense.
Thanks.

MarkG · June 21, 2002, 14:51

Quote:

If I could not have Edited the ridiculous, non-historical, and goofy values that Firaxis slapped together I'd have sold this turkey on E-Bay last December for an old CD of
Civ 1.

darn, if the game was less editable we might have been saved...

btw, please release your mod so that we can enjoy civ3 again!
/me alt-tabs back to civ3