Unofficial pole on France relations

Ninot · June 20, 2002, 22:58

vote as per your conscious!

Inverse Icarus · June 20, 2002, 23:00

as stated in the other thread, voted #1, killify france.

and again, lol @ pole.

this post brought to you by supreme military commander UberKruX. Glory Comes From Spilt Blood.

Ninot · June 20, 2002, 23:01

checkout details over here

jdd2007 · June 20, 2002, 23:06

war! uber shall lead us to glorious victory among the despicable french. genocidal maniacs can fight, believe it or not. we shall loot their banana farms and take joan of arc in chains!

however, we need some more offensive techs!

Chandragupta · June 20, 2002, 23:08

We need good land, France must have it (better than ours I would imagine), therefore we take from France.

Inverse Icarus · June 20, 2002, 23:08

Quote:

Originally posted by jdd2007
war! uber shall lead us to glorious victory among the despicable french. genocidal maniacs can fight, believe it or not. we shall loot their banana farms and take joan of arc in chains!

however, we need some more offensive techs!

first off, joan in chains IS an objective in my military campaigns. she'll be the nations "lass of virtue true"... for a while anyway.

and yes, we need offensive techs. i will win, if they let me.

Trevman · June 20, 2002, 23:51

We need to find out more about the French before we make a foreign policy concerning them.

Inverse Icarus · June 21, 2002, 00:00

Quote:

Originally posted by Trevman
We need to find out more about the French before we make a foreign policy concerning them.

like what?

we know they can only have spearmen/warriors, and only have one city.

Ninot · June 21, 2002, 00:03

Quote:

We need to find out more about the French before we make a foreign policy concerning them.

\

visit my offices at the foreign ministry for a full report on what we know of the french currently.

They only have Paris.. we know they have warriors, but we have no evidence of any spearmen yet. We know they probably have a bigger army (im guessing they have 3 warriors, over our 2, lol).

Jon Shafer · June 21, 2002, 00:07

Quote:

Originally posted by Ninot we know they have warriors, but we have no evidence of any spearmen yet. We know they probably have a bigger army (im guessing they have 3 warriors, over our 2, lol).

They have Bronze Working...

Ninot · June 21, 2002, 00:09

yeah but maybe they havent gotten around to building a spearmen yet... my secretary (the in game advisor) tells me they only have warriors (for all that is worth)

Jon Shafer · June 21, 2002, 00:10

But it's reasonable to believe they could build Spearmen at any point, should they choose to.

Nubclear · June 21, 2002, 00:12

I don't think we should completly conquer them....

I think we should take all but one of their cities, open negotiations for peace, extort all of their techs, gold, map, and everything else we can, and then completly conquer them.

Nubclear · June 21, 2002, 00:13

Quote:

Originally posted by Trip
But it's reasonable to believe they could build Spearmen at any point, should they choose to.

But Ninots original statement still holds true. We have no evidence that they have spearmen.

Timeline · June 21, 2002, 00:21

Quote:

Originally posted by Tassadar5000
I don't think we should completly conquer them....

I think we should take all but one of their cities, open negotiations for peace, extort all of their techs, gold, map, and everything else we can, and then completly conquer them.

Go Tass

(although I am sure Ninot would vehemently disagree, but still, talk about efficient industrialists, you can't get any more efficient than that LOL)

Inverse Icarus · June 21, 2002, 00:23

and ruin our precious reputation?

Ninot · June 21, 2002, 00:29

yeah, i vehemently disagree

if we leave 1 city, then im gonna have to make everyone wait 20 turns before we re-declare war (cuz thats my kind of policy).. and even then, the benefits we gain might not be worth 20 turns of wait.

If we get a bus-load of techs and everything else we want, in exchange for a 1 city enemy.. thats acceptable. I still wont let our rep slip, but its reasonable atleast.

But if we get MAYBE 2 techs out of it, and a little bit of gold, thats pathetic, and i would rather Uber invade the last city immediately so we could begin to culture-ize it and make it our own.

Switch · June 21, 2002, 00:33

Quote:

Originally posted by Tassadar5000
I don't think we should completly conquer them....

I think we should take all but one of their cities, open negotiations for peace, extort all of their techs, gold, map, and everything else we can, and then completly conquer them.

They only have one city! So your saying to just skip step 1? (conquer all but one of their cities)

Timeline · June 21, 2002, 00:34

Quote:

Originally posted by Ninot
yeah, i vehemently disagree

if we leave 1 city, then im gonna have to make everyone wait 20 turns before we re-declare war (cuz thats my kind of policy).. and even then, the benefits we gain might not be worth 20 turns of wait.

If we get a bus-load of techs and everything else we want, in exchange for a 1 city enemy.. thats acceptable. I still wont let our rep slip, but its reasonable atleast.

But if we get MAYBE 2 techs out of it, and a little bit of gold, thats pathetic, and i would rather Uber invade the last city immediately so we could begin to culture-ize it and make it our own.

Yeah, well, waiting 20 turns would be out the question. If we pulled a scam like that off it would have to be a backstab, because we run the risk of a city flipping back every turn for 20 turns strieght, and that is not worth even a "busload" of techs.

As far as rep, I generally don't like running it into the ground either, But then again on Emperor the AI is always gonna screw ya anyway.

It's something I leave up to the foreign minister and the people, I don't really care

Timeline · June 21, 2002, 00:35

Quote:

Originally posted by SwitchMoO

They only have one city! So your saying to just skip step 1? (conquer all but one of their cities)

Do you really think the AIs only going to have one city when by the time we aready to attack them? Have you ever played on Emperor???

your in for a ride bro

Switch · June 21, 2002, 00:37

WEll, I just hadn't thought far ahead, and no, I've never even played beyond Chieftan (well, I played Warlord once, but it was too tough

)

Timeline · June 21, 2002, 00:43

Quote:

Originally posted by SwitchMoO
WEll, I just hadn't thought far ahead, and no, I've never even played beyond Chieftan (well, I played Warlord once, but it was too tough

)

lol, ur funny

Nubclear · June 21, 2002, 01:14

All I have to say is: To hell with our reputation

I would rather get everything we can from them, even if its just one tech because that's one tech that we don't have to research.

Plus, whenever I do it, the only thing that happens is that a few civs turn to "Cautious" status. It isn't a very serous atrocity, nothing like violation of RoP or something like that.

Guardian · June 21, 2002, 04:30

Okay, here's my assessment of our current situation:

We're stuck on a peninsula with lots of jungle and we have discovered a rival civ within "walking distance" who is currently stronger than us and - we have to assume - has better land. If we sit tight and try to get cozy with them, we risk being isolated in the Notylopa jungle while they settle all the good land. They'll grow big and strong while we're busy trying to keep our heads above the water, and by the time we're starting to get things right, the French equivalent of the Hawk Party is going to say, "We want those cities!". At this point, of course, Uber's men are going to be outnumbered, outgunned and out of luck.

We can't risk letting this happen.

So, I support a change of plans and a more aggressive stance:

Instead of going after alphabet next, we should get the wheel and start building up our military. (The French already have the alphabet, so we'll get it from them one way or another.) We should also start clearing and/or roading the jungle to make a path to the grasslands beyond. We need access to that land and we need to secure an early dominance of our neighborhood. We can not just sit here with our heads stuck in the sand and hope that the French warriors will all get lost in the jungle.

So yes, we're gonna have to come down on the French, preferably in an aggressive war where we attack first and take them out or seriously mess them up before they get a chance to come knocking on our doors.

I see no other viable alternative.

They are simply too close, and they're either already in our way or they're going to be.
Besides, we have to assume that's exactly how they will look at us.
So, it's really just a matter of who strikes first and how soon it will happen...

Oh, and if anybody's surprised to see me take this position... well, I never said I would stick my head in the sand.

Eli · June 21, 2002, 04:43

Conquer them and establish the core of our empire in their land.

Nubclear · June 21, 2002, 04:43

Quote:

Originally posted by Guardian
Okay, here's my assessment of our current situation:

We're stuck on a peninsula with lots of jungle and we have discovered a rival civ within "walking distance" who is currently stronger than us and - we have to assume - has better land. If we sit tight and try to get cozy with them, we risk being isolated in the Notylopa jungle while they settle all the good land. They'll grow big and strong while we're busy trying to keep our heads above the water, and by the time we're starting to get things right, the French equivalent of the Hawk Party is going to say, "We want those cities!". At this point, of course, Uber's men are going to be outnumbered, outgunned and out of luck.

We can't risk letting this happen.

So, I support a change of plans and a more aggressive stance:

Instead of going after alphabet next, we should get the wheel and start building up our military. (The French already have the alphabet, so we'll get it from them one way or another.) We should also start clearing and/or roading the jungle to make a path to the grasslands beyond. We need access to that land and we need to secure an early dominance of our neighborhood. We can not just sit here with our heads stuck in the sand and hope that the French warriors will all get lost in the jungle.

So yes, we're gonna have to come down on the French, preferably in an aggressive war where we attack first and take them out or seriously mess them up before they get a chance to come knocking on our doors.

I see no other viable alternative.

They are simply too close, and they're either already in our way or they're going to be.
Besides, we have to assume that's exactly how they will look at us.
So, it's really just a matter of who strikes first and how soon it will happen...

Oh, and if anybody's surprised to see me take this position... well, I never said I would stick my head in the sand.

Yes I am in complete and total agreement. We will obtain the Alphabet (whether by trading or by, more preferably, Military means.) because if we don't do something now, we will be isolated in a jungle and eventually conquered because of our unforgiving starting position.

We MUST research an offensive tech because if we do not we will most certainly perish.

Down with the french!

The Thing · June 21, 2002, 05:02

Lets research warrior code and then build three archers to take a city of them. Because they have only two or three cities they will immediately be begging for peace.

Waiting for war chariots will take too long and we are not sure to find horses.

Harovan · June 21, 2002, 05:34

Weaken them, but don't kill them yet. We need them as research partner, leader generating punching bag and expansion reserve. Do it now, with archers and spears, as if we wait for a road through the jungle to attack with War chariots, we may face pikemen in Paris.

Eli · June 21, 2002, 05:45

Quote:

Originally posted by Sir Ralph
if we wait for a road through the jungle to attack with War chariots, we may face pikemen in Paris.

Confirmed. With the two workers we have now it'll take ~30 turns to build a road only to the newly discovered grassland area(not the French themselves, wherever they are).

Guardian · June 21, 2002, 06:16

Quote:

Originally posted by Sir Ralph
Weaken them, but don't kill them yet. We need them as research partner, leader generating punching bag and expansion reserve. Do it now, with archers and spears, as if we wait for a road through the jungle to attack with War chariots, we may face pikemen in Paris.

Okay, this makes sense.

There are too many things that can go wrong with the plan calling for war chariots. To pull it off, we need the wheel and horses and a clear path or road all the way to the target. We don't even know for sure if we can get all of these things, and even if we can, it's likely to take a good long while.

If we get warrior code, we can train archers who do not require any additional resources or infrastructure and who's only disadvantage compared to the war chariots is the movement rate. (They only move half as fast, but they hit just as hard once they're in position.)

I maintain nonetheless that we should start clearing and / or roading our way towards the grassland as soon as possible, as we're going to need easy access to those areas in any case.