Ratification of the Constitution

[Jon Shafer]

Aka, Code of Laws for you anti-Constitution people.

This is the Constitution as it stands to be voted on. Yea or Nay, you call it. Most votes win. Once the expiration of the poll takes place, the results are official.

APOLYTONIA CODE OF LAWS

These are the code of laws that we, the new citizenry of Apolotonia, have decided upon. In it, we have declared that we shall form a government of the people, a Democracy, in which -WE- shall choose who leads us. We shall gather the smartest and most wise people of our tribe together, and they shall erect sacrad polls, and they will do their bidding. Let no other nation, barbarian, or calamity stand in our way, WE ARE CIVERS, AND WE WANT TO PLAY!

Government Stucture

Executive Branch

This is the administrative section of our nation. The Executive branch is made up of the President and Vice President. These two are required to abide by the suggestions of the ministers, who represent the will of the people.

President:
The President shall physically play the game after referring to his advisors, and generally checking with the people.

Once the turns are played the president shall send out the save game file via e-mail only to all the members of his cabinet and any Apolytonia member who specially request it. The Historian and Reporter must receive saves from the end of each turnchat.

The President is required to host at least one turnchat a week.

The President must have a 2/3 majority before he can change our Government type or mobilize our economy for war.

The President has control over drafts.

Vice-President:
The right hand of the President; he may assist the president in any way currently needed (holding polls, consulting ministers, distributing the save files, etc). In the event the President is unable to play his turn, the Vice-president shall play the turn instead.

Ministerial Branch

Ministers make up the core of our government. They do the hard labor required to point our country in the right direction. Ministers are experts in the area they oversee, and they have the serious task of informing and advising the people on our situation. They are required to conduct polls in order to interrupt the people’s will. They are then to carry out that will, by giving their direction to the President.

All Ministers are allowed to advise and consult with each other. They are also granted the right to petition for changes or actions from other Ministers that may be critical to the their department. Ultimately, however, it is the Minister in charge of his/her section that has the final say in how things are handled.

Science Advisor:
The Science Advisor is the nation’s greatest mind in the area of technological advancement. It is his/her responsibility to advise the president on which techs the people wish to research.

The Science Minister is acknowledged the right to advise the Foreign Affairs minister on matters of Tech trading.

Military Advisor:
This officer is the principal military advisor to the President and the people, and prepares military plans and reviews overall military requirements for our nation. He/She also has the responsibility to assess threats to the security of the country and keep everyone up to date on these threats.

The Military Advisor is granted the power to set up the army's strategy. He tells what troops to move where, and which battles to engage.

The Military Advisor is granted the right to take an active part in negotiations of Peace Treaties, Mutual Protection Pacts, or a Right of Passage agreements. (Note: The Foreign Advisor calls the shots, but the Military Advisor must have his voice heard).

Foreign Advisor:
This minister is the government’s chief advisor on foreign affairs and is responsible for carrying out foreign policy. He/She is given the power to enter into diplomatic negotiations with other countries, however should refrain from making commitments until approved by the people.

The Foreign Advisor is granted the power to make peace, accept Mutual Protection Pacts, offer Right of Passage Agreements, and forge Military Alliances. The exchange of all items, except Strategic, Luxury, or Gold resources falls on the broad shoulders of the Foreign Affairs Minister. It is strongly recommended that the Foreign Affairs Minister consult the appropriate ministers when gifts or exchanges are involved.

This Minister is required to consult the Trade advisor when Gold, Luxury or Strategic resources are involved.

Trade Advisor:
The Minister of Trade is the principle authority on all international trade. He/she handles all trade involving the exchange of luxurious goods and resources, and has control over any times that gold may be involved.

The Trade Advisor is granted the power to make/accept Trade Embargos.

City Planner:
The City Planner is truly an artist and an economist, for he is responsible for making the foundation of our nation, cities, as prosperous and successful as possible. The City Planner manages building queues and citizens, but may also request the Public Works minister to improve city tiles when needed.

The City Planner is strongly recommended to accommodate all Ministers who approach him/her with their various needs.

Imperial Expansion Minister
The Imperial Expansion Minister posses the important job of placing our glorious new cities.

Public Works Minister:
The Public Works Minister is in charge of all the workers and slaves in our empire.

Financial Minister:
The Financial Minister has the power to control the budget of our civ. That involves assigning income for science, trade and luxuries.

Public Information Servants

Historian:
The Historian logs everything that happens to our nation, however, he should do so without biased to political leaders or parties. The Historian is not allowed to vote in governmental polls.

The Historian may request detailed information on certain things from the President, and shall be granted access to multiple saves per turn (before and after the save has been played).

Reporters:
These independent agents are bestowed the great privilege of keeping the people informed on the happenings of the game and government, as well as the general environment around us. They should strive to obtain accurate facts, and state things how they are, free of political involvement. The reporters act as a window into the game, serve as a government watchdog, and are general tool of the people.

Government Policy

Amendments:
Amendments to this Constitution can be submitted by any member of our nation. An amendment is passed and made official by a 2/3 or greater vote on the amendment's inclusion.

Length of Office Terms:
All office terms shall last one month. A member can run for a different office at the end of his term, but he cannot change offices during it. If a member is elected three times into the same office, that member must run for a different office in his forth term, or not run at all.

Impeachment:
All members of our great nation are recognized the right to bring foreword the issue of impeachment of any government official at any time.

A poll will be posted which will expire in no less than 5 days. There are to be three poll options, yea, nay, and abstain. Upon the expiration of the poll, if 2/3 of the people who voted deem impeachment necessary, then the official shall be immediately removed from office. The President shall establish an emergency member to take his/her place until a new election can be held, and a new person voted into office to finish the term. The same holds true for any possible resignations.

Polling:
Polls may be conducted in an ‘unofficial’ format to simply gain information, but CANNOT be used in any official decisions. All of the following rules are regarding ‘official’ polls, which may or may not be used as official results for the actual game. Any unofficial polls must be labeled as so within the first post.

General Rules:
Each official poll should have its rules laid out, as well as a form of expiration, either when a certain event takes place (i.e. ‘when the game starts’), or a time limit (i.e. ‘5 days’). This is to prevent the occurrence of an incident such as if doesn’t include an expiration, and says 3 weeks later "well this poll said this" kind of thing, and use its results officially. Each poll should lay out the potential options, as well as the question in a clear format. The required inclusions for the post are: an expiration date/event, a fair, clear and concise, unbaised question which addressed the issue of the poll, and a general description of what your poll entails. Instead of a description if you wish to post a link to another thread to give a description, that is acceptable as well.

Those who wish to put up a poll are strongly recommended to first discuss the issue in another thread, and bounce around possible options for voting. If someone feels that a poll could have been better made as a 'grouping' poll, or a 'yes/no' poll, then it may be deemed invalid.

Length of a Poll
Each poll must be open for a minimum of 3 days. This allows enough time for the majority of our members to see the poll and vote in it. Any poll open or taking results in less than 3 days is invalid. This includes 'spur of the moment' polls, that say something like 'This poll ends when turn 5 starts', but turn 5 starts in 2 days instead of 3 - this poll would be invalid.

Fairness and Neutrality:
The first post in a poll thread should be completely neutral. No options are to be suggested for voting, just what each option entails in an unbiased format. The same is true for the voting options. While poking fun at an option will probably be acceptable, if someone thinks that it interferes with a voter’s decision, then they may deem it invalid. If you show bias in your options, then it is no longer fair. So be warned, if your poll is a landslide one way and should win but someone feels that the options you presented are unfair and calls for a validity vote, if it’s deemed invalid your poll is useless.

Poll Format:
Each official poll MUST include either a ‘yes/no’ format, or a ‘group’ format, where similar options are grouped together, where the winning option within the group with the most votes is the official winner. The only time these formats do not have to be followed is in true multiple-choice polls, i.e. ‘Which Civilization should we be: Egyptians, Persians. Etc.’ In these cases, a simple ‘yes/no’ or ‘grouping’ poll does not suffice.

Repolling:
If someone wants to conduct a repoll, then it must be created at least 3 weeks following the initial poll. If a repoll is created before 3 weeks has passed, then that poll is immediately invalid. If a poll is an alternative poll, offering alternatives to decisions made in a previous poll, then it also must be conducted at least 3 weeks following the first poll, or be immediately deemed invalid. Any poll that's general purpose is the same or similar as another poll will be considered a repoll.

Length of Validity:
Poll results are valid until either a repoll is conducted, or an optional expiration on the results of the poll is included (either from an event or a time limit). In any other case, the results of a poll are official until the end of the game.

Invalidity of a Poll:
If these rules are not abided by, anyone may consider the poll invalid. If someone believes a poll to not be following these rules and declares it invalid, then a vote may be conducted among the elected officials listed in the ‘Current Administration’ thread to be either ‘valid’ or ‘invalid’. If the poll is deemed invalid, then its results cannot be used for any official purposes regarding the game. A poll deemed invalid cannot be voted on again unless it abides by the rules regarding a repoll.

Question:
Is this Constitution fit for ratification?

Options:
Yea, Nay, Abstain

Expiration:
4 Days

[Trevman]

Polling standards are too lengthy and strict plus we need to address resignation because of recent events.

[Inverse Icarus]

resigned posts shall be treated as Impeached posts.

[Timeline]

Originally posted by Trevman
Polling standards are too lengthy and strict plus we need to address resignation because of recent events.

I also strongly feel that polling standards should be included apart from a constitution, and or maybe simplified some.

If you vote yes please give an open ear to ammendments, because this thing is going to need alot of them (I should know, I practically rewrote the whole thing).

[notyoueither]

I think it sux that we are even considering voting on an unfinished document.

Where was this discussed? Was it discussed publically, or was it brokered through back room deals? I recall no discussion of Trip's modifications to the previously arrived at consensus regarding polling.

I await answers, but am inclined to vote no to such a flawed document.

[notyoueither]

So OK.

People are urging others to vote for this flawed document because 'we can ammend it later'.

Well, to begin with it only takes 51% to pass this monstrosity. Then, it requires 67% to ammend it.

With the way partisan politics are shaping up, how many 67% majorities do you think will be achieved?

That means we'll be left with this... dictated document. Little or no discussion. Tyrannical clauses added with zero discussion.

Vote yes. Vote for Timeline and Trip to dictate our constitution. Bahhhhh!

[civman2000]

The President has control over drafts.

This makes no sense. It should be the city planner or maybe the minister of war.

These independent agents are bestowed the great privilege of keeping the people informed on the happenings of the game and government, as well as the general environment around us. They should strive to obtain accurate facts, and state things how they are, free of political involvement. The reporters act as a window into the game, serve as a government watchdog, and are general tool of the people.

FREE SPEECH FOR THE PRESS! They should be unofficial and able to, if they wish, write anything within reasonable bounds (ncluding biased things).

Each poll must be open for a minimum of 3 days. This allows enough time for the majority of our members to see the poll and vote in it. Any poll open or taking results in less than 3 days is invalid. This includes 'spur of the moment' polls, that say something like 'This poll ends when turn 5 starts', but turn 5 starts in 2 days instead of 3 - this poll would be invalid.

THis makes it nearly impossible for the ministers if we're having 2 chats a week and you dont get your report done until the day after the chat (aka me right now). I have only 2 days until the next chat, so because I was really busy last night that means I am unable to give a report.

Any poll that's general purpose is the same or similar as another poll will be considered a repoll.

Again, too restrictive. This can be too generally applied to polls that are more clarification than a repoll (exapmle: SMC's second plea).

I have to agree with NYE. I would only ratify a constitution with this many problems if it could be changed with a simple majority.

[civman2000]

I just realized something: by these rules, not one decision can be made in time for the next chat. There were only about 70 hours (now even less) from the last chat until the upcoming one on Sunday and 72 would be needed for any poll. The time restrictions really need to be laxer.

[punkbass2000]

I agree about the time restrictions. Maybe 48 hours instead, and 24 if a minister needs a poll to be in before a turnchat.

[Timeline]

Originally posted by notyoueither

Vote yes. Vote for Timeline and Trip to dictate our constitution. Bahhhhh!

Actually, I have to agree. This thing is not ready. It was supposed to be discussed before voted on. This vote violates the very polling laws in the constitution.




We have time, don't push it.

BTW: Trip must have known this, why els would he be pushing for it except to further his own agenda. He is anti constitutionalist, so why is he hurrying things???

We can live without this, for now. But we can't live with it.

VOTE YES AND VOTE FOR TIMELINE AND TRIP TO DICTATE THE LAWS OF OUR NATION!

[Ninot]

ok, i havent voted yet, but i need clarification (for my own sake) if this is passed...

"The exchange of all items, except Strategic, Luxury, or Gold resources falls on the broad shoulders of the Foreign Affairs Minister"

"The Science Minister is acknowledged the right to advise the Foreign Affairs minister on matters of Tech trading."

Allright.. so just for my own petty knowledge, straighten this out for me.

I will not have any say over the trade of resources, unless i request them for diplomatic relations such as peace, war, whatever.. that i pretty much understand.

But for technology trading, as stated above, I understand I get the final say over whether a tech should be traded or not. Is this correct? Or is more correct to state the Science minister has this final say? Or is it I have the final say, but i must weigh the advise of the science minister? Please clarify.

[Timeline]

Originally posted by Ninot
ok, i havent voted yet, but i need clarification (for my own sake) if this is passed...

"The exchange of all items, except Strategic, Luxury, or Gold resources falls on the broad shoulders of the Foreign Affairs Minister"

"The Science Minister is acknowledged the right to advise the Foreign Affairs minister on matters of Tech trading."

Allright.. so just for my own petty knowledge, straighten this out for me.

I will not have any say over the trade of resources, unless i request them for diplomatic relations such as peace, war, whatever.. that i pretty much understand.

But for technology trading, as stated above, I understand I get the final say over whether a tech should be traded or not. Is this correct? Or is more correct to state the Science minister has this final say? Or is it I have the final say, but i must weigh the advise of the science minister? Please clarify.

The last one is the correct one. He has a right to be present during times when tech traded is consider, he must be consulted. And he must advise you, but you have the final say.

Trade Minister has the final say in all aspects of resource/luxury/gold trading, and must be present when a negotiation is underway.

I feel we should merge the trade advisor and foreign affairs, or merge SOMETHING.

All this was suposed to be debated before voted on, this is crazy.

[Panag]

hi ,

no merger's , this gives a lot of power to one , ....

have a nice day

[Jon Shafer]

The document, complete or not, is nearly getting a super-majority without the support of the most vehement citizens. Do you think that getting an amendment ratified if most of the vocal people support it would be a problem? Incomplete document or not, anything and everything can be changed, and since you're complaining so much about it, then you should be supporting some sort of rules. Right now, there are no official rules because there is no Constitution/Code of Laws.

As far as the polling issue, with the schedule having 2 turnchats per week, the vast majority of times you have a good idea of what people want within the first 1-2 days. The results from polls for game decisions can be accepted before the poll is closed, simply because waiting is pointless (unless it's close), and the fact that the ministers have the final call anyways.

[Panag]

Originally posted by Trip
The document, complete or not, is nearly getting a super-majority without the support of the most vehement citizens. Do you think that getting an amendment ratified if most of the vocal people support it would be a problem? Incomplete document or not, anything and everything can be changed, and since you're complaining so much about it, then you should be supporting some sort of rules. Right now, there are no official rules because there is no Constitution/Code of Laws.

As far as the polling issue, with the schedule having 2 turnchats per week, the vast majority of times you have a good idea of what people want within the first 1-2 days. The results from polls for game decisions can be accepted before the poll is closed, simply because waiting is pointless (unless it's close), and the fact that the ministers have the final call anyways.

hi ,

who is complaining , ....

panag > start's to load banana's in the huge banana gun , .... just in case , .....anyone does not like our law , ..

have a nice day

[ManicStarSeed]

This thing really need some help, but it is a good start. I think that Trip is just trying to shake things up. Good job Trip.

Ive done this stuff before for intentional communities , and it is always shocking to see it on paper. they generally need to change, but not as much as you first think.

We need an impartial body somewhere. The historian is fine, but we need a court system to make judgment calls. How about a group of three justices that help with "invalid" polling, Temporary assignments and the such.

[Jon Shafer]

NYE, CM, punkbass, Linney were, IIRC. Ninot wanted some clarification, but I don't think that counts as an official gripe.

[Panag]

Originally posted by ManicStarSeed
This thing really need some help, but it is a good start. I think that Trip is just trying to shake things up. Good job Trip.

Ive done this stuff before for intentional communities , and it is always shocking to see it on paper. they generally need to change, but not as much as you first think.

We need an impartial body somewhere. The historian is fine, but we need a court system to make judgment calls. How about a group of three justices that help with "invalid" polling, Temporary assignments and the such.

hi ,

remember the senate , ..... it could take a lot of stress from some shoulders , it would be a group that is neutral , and that supports the government , .....

and they would rule on any court issue's , ...

it would have to be 5-7 people , ...

have a nice day

[Spiffor]

I have to agree with NYE
I can't vote for this consitution, as a 2/3 majority will be required to correct this flawed document, and a 2/3 majority will be nigh impossible to reach with partisan politics.
Almost the whole document is good, since many elements have been voted (majority and initiative for impeachment, mobilization, amendment).
But the flaws civman referred to need to be adressed without rushing things.

[Kuciwalker]

NAY NAY NAY

[Jon Shafer]

Originally posted by notyoueither
That means we'll be left with this... dictated document. Little or no discussion. Tyrannical clauses added with zero discussion.

Vote yes. Vote for Timeline and Trip to dictate our constitution. Bahhhhh!

I suppose the people want a tyranny, as the votes stack up.

[Kuciwalker]

Doesn't this need a 2/3 majority to pass? If so, then it's not going to make it the way the votes are now.

[Inverse Icarus]

Originally posted by skywalker
Doesn't this need a 2/3 majority to pass? If so, then it's not going to make it the way the votes are now.

it is pretty close though...

[Panag]

Originally posted by skywalker
Doesn't this need a 2/3 majority to pass? If so, then it's not going to make it the way the votes are now.

hi ,

it has two thirds now , .....

we can only hope that more people vote , ....

have a nice day

[Jon Shafer]

Originally posted by skywalker
Doesn't this need a 2/3 majority to pass? If so, then it's not going to make it the way the votes are now.

Says who, there's no rules remember.

[Kuciwalker]

Panag, 2/3 is 66.67%. It has 63.64%. Not quite 2/3.

Trip, if it doesn't have a 2/3 majority but we say it "passes", it would, by its own provisions, become invalid, after which it would be valid, creating paradox and making the entire forum blink into nonexistance.

[Panag]

hi ,

, some people shall vote yes , so lets go the american way on this , this or that person say's , i shall vote for this or that , BUT i want to propese an amend this or that , ....

it could work , .....

have a nice day

[Panag]

Originally posted by skywalker
Panag, 2/3 is 66.67%. It has 63.64%. Not quite 2/3.

Trip, if it doesn't have a 2/3 majority but we say it "passes", it would, by its own provisions, become invalid, after which it would be valid, creating paradox and making the entire forum blink into nonexistance.

hi ,

it changed , ....

we should mobilize more people , ...

have a nice day

[Kuciwalker]

It didn't change. It's still at 63.64%.

[Kingof the Apes]

We have 150 members and there is 33 votes?

???