Hide the spy? - Page 2

vmxa1 · July 12, 2002, 15:58

I forgot to mention the stealth ships, since I have not encountered them lately. I will often not have any of the scanners needed to detech them and boom a huge fleet at your door. They take down your planet even when it has all the defences up, Start Forts etc. The interdictor does not help as they can take as many turns as is needed, you do not know they are coming. That is why I often take Omi for my pick at mutation time if they are still in the game. Now they can not sneak up on me and I can get a fleet there to spank them.

Spaced Cowboy · July 12, 2002, 17:12

I agree, you just can't figure out where thier fleet is to take them out.

moomin · July 13, 2002, 12:57

I hate having my racial upgrade go toward anything but a 40 point score upgrade. That's why I hate the Darloks

vmxa1 · July 13, 2002, 13:38

Moom, I hope you are not playing large or huge maps and trying for a good score. That would take a ton of work to colonize all the those planets and crank out artifical ones. I have never attempted to run up the score on anything bigger than a med map. That is moe than enough work.

Alphard · July 14, 2002, 11:05

I read all your posts about spying in MOO2 and wanted to add what i know.. and what i do.. i have played moo2 for years and what i post are practical tricks i use myself and i have noticed to work..

1. Producing spies: in the beginning it is intentional.. but after u got both aut.fact. and robo-plant, u tend to get those planets with aa buildings ready and all ppl on science.. with extra prod left over for spies.

2. Early game defence: in the early game when u have just a few spies and the nme infiltrates u constantly, place 1 or 2 on (attack) espionage or hide. i have noticed that in such situations nme spies wont get through that ez and u have a good chance of killing that single bugger that kept robbing u. or if he kills ur spy, at least he wont get the tech.

3. Spy operations: it DOES pay off to put the spies into 'hide' for a while. just as it did in MOO1. In that game it was explained by spies staying alive and then gang attacking. I assume in MOO2 the philosophy is that the spies you have in nme empire need to infiltrate the ranks (go undercover-hide). anyways when you let them stay hidden for a while and only then set them on espionage there is a good chance of getting through their defences right on that turn.

4. Spy count: It is true that very often when you have max spies, you still cannot get through to the nme unless your spying is WAY better than his.. i have a theory and explanation for this also which is linked to point 3->
+ every turn there is x% chance that your spy will infiltrate nme ranks.
+ successful covert operations can ONLY be performed by spies that already have infiltrated nme.
SO->if you have only a few spies that have already infiltrated the nme, the nme has a good chance of stoping them, although you have 63 spies on him.. cos only 2 attacked. and that is where hiding comes in.. u let more spies go under cover..

u guys dont really think that they added the 'hide' command to the spies just for the heck of it with no practical purpose?

vmxa1 · July 14, 2002, 13:03

Quote:

Originally posted by Alphard
3. Spy operations: it DOES pay off to put the spies into 'hide' for a while. just as it did in MOO1. In that game it was explained by spies staying alive and then gang attacking. I assume in MOO2 the philosophy is that the spies you have in nme empire need to infiltrate the ranks (go undercover-hide). anyways when you let them stay hidden for a while and only then set them on espionage there is a good chance of getting through their defences right on that turn.

I am not sure of the value of hide in either game. In Moo1, it had some use as you could maintain spies that you had acrued on that race and not cause war once the conflict ended. In Moo2 you can just move those spies else where or back to defend. So what I am doing is trying to avoid a conflict. In Moo2, I stock pile spies on defence. When I want to spy on someone, I send a bunch over. No need to hide and build up (except for the very start of the game).

Quote:

Originally posted by Alphard
4. Spy count: It is true that very often when you have max spies, you still cannot get through to the nme unless your spying is WAY better than his.. i have a theory and explanation for this also which is linked to point 3->
+ every turn there is x% chance that your spy will infiltrate nme ranks.
+ successful covert operations can ONLY be performed by spies that already have infiltrated nme.
SO->if you have only a few spies that have already infiltrated the nme, the nme has a good chance of stoping them, although you have 63 spies on him.. cos only 2 attacked. and that is where hiding comes in.. u let more spies go under cover..

u guys dont really think that they added the 'hide' command to the spies just for the heck of it with no practical purpose?

I do not profess to know how it works, but by the time I have 20-30 spies on them, I will have the best spy techs, so unless they have spy traits, I should have some sucess. In fact even if they did have better traits and tech, I will soon have some sucess. This is because I will build as many spies as it takes and they will not. In Moo1, spying was basically a one way street. I spy they suffer (hard/impossible). I would run with no defensive spies and they hardly did anything except some sabatoge. I put 4.4 or 4.8% in on the race I was after and sooner or later got everything. I never use hide.Why bother? In Moo1 they have no chance and when I make peace I may turn off the spies or not. If they do not like it, what do I care? The peace was their idea, not mine, let them get mad. In fact they have to decalre war soon anyway, since all the planets are taken. In Moo2, just move the spies home or to some other race. I do not make more than 40 spies on any one race, but will max out defensively.

Spaced Cowboy · July 16, 2002, 16:53

I thought that I read something in one of the Moo manuals that hiding the spy results in a better chance to accomplish your mission. That is why I asked this question in the first place.

However, no one here seems to use that tactic and they do not have any issues with stealing tech. I was however, even though I had all of the spy techs and thought that I had quite a few spies on them. Never a bleep though.

vmxa1 · July 16, 2002, 17:24

Quote:

Originally posted by RPMisCOOL
I thought that I read something in one of the Moo manuals that hiding the spy results in a better chance to accomplish your mission. That is why I asked this question in the first place.

However, no one here seems to use that tactic and they do not have any issues with stealing tech. I was however, even though I had all of the spy techs and thought that I had quite a few spies on them. Never a bleep though.

Notice, I did not say it was not valid, just that I do not see any reason to do it. I have not tested it enough to say if it works or not. I don't care, I do not want the extra work of tracking it. I could forsee setting them to hide and forgetting about it for a long time. Why risk it or make myself keep track? Just keep making spies non stop and put some on them and some on defense. Once I have what I want or make peace (not likely), then I will move the spies some place.
If you are not getting steals or sabatoge, check to see what traits they have, what tech for spying and how many spies they have. If they are a spying race like Darloks or Elerians, that may be your problem. Do check to see that they actually have tech for you to steal. They may not have anything you do not have. What is a lot of spies? If you have the better tech, then 4-8 can be enough. If not, go up to the max. At this stage of the game, I do not care about getting caught, war is coming anyhow.

Spaced Cowboy · July 16, 2002, 17:54

I'm not worried about getting caught. I'm just trying to better my oportunities for actually being successful at getting tech or sabotage. I was just wondering if someone has had luck with few spies, but hiding them initally??

vmxa1 · July 16, 2002, 18:23

Run some test and let us know how it comes out. Get to a point where you have your normal number and save the game. Try different tactics such as hide and then spy. Try just continuing to add more spies and see which works.

The Mad Monk · July 26, 2002, 06:00

By the end of a game, I often have 200+ spies, so I use 'Hide' to warehouse them with other races.