Adjust science rate?

ixnay · June 22, 2002, 21:28

This issue came up in the last batch of polls...should we change our science rate? Discoveries are coming every 4 turns and we're getting 174 income. Under communism, the max rate for anything is 80%.

MrWhereItsAt · June 22, 2002, 21:35

Perhaps listing what techs are within about 4-5 discoveries away with our current science and their benefits/lack of would help.

I'm not sure if there are many at the moment that will seriously help us in this (soon-to-be, I promise you

) all-out slobberknocker of a war, since we are avoiding the Devil's magic of Electricity.

Please confirm this, Senor Science.

Minister of WAR, not peace.
MrWIA.

EDIT: And now I'm KING Vegeta. Lovely.

ixnay · June 22, 2002, 22:01

Ok, then - here are possible paths from where we are now.

Corporation -> Refining -> Combustion -> Theory of Gravity -> Flight

Combustion gives submarines, flight gives fighters

Theory of Gravity -> Atomic Theory

Gives Newton's and sets us up for Nuclear Fission once we get to Mass Production

Magnetism -> Electricity -> Steel -> Machine Tools

I know we're trying to avoid this path as long as possible, but when we do go down it we'll get Destroyers (4.4.6), Cruisers (6.6.5), and Artillery (10.1.1)

Plus there are some dead-end techs we can research - Fundamentalism and Theology. I'll go into more detail on all of this when I do the official science poll later tonite.

MrWhereItsAt · June 22, 2002, 22:16

You rock, ixnay. That was FAST.

Minister of WAR, not peace.
MrWIA.

cavebear · June 22, 2002, 22:23

70% is working pretty well so far, but the President needs to have the right to change it as circumstances dictate (temporarily). For example, when we were about to get Darwin's Voyage, I dropped the science rate to zero for a turn so we wouldn't waste any beakers and could get some extra gold in the treasury. That won't occur again, but sometimes the tax rate can be played around with to good advantage.

atawa · June 22, 2002, 22:48

Why dont we go fundi after espionage?

The only tech we might need to conquer the planet is steel in case Chartagians get gunpowder.

But if we wake up our clads

and start killing units in Chartage we can just load 2 transports and take half their civ in the first turn.

While in fundi, we are earning LOADS of money

.

And becouse we have mike's every city gets +2 trade

With all that money we can rush buy factory's in our big production city's and then start cranking out a unit a turn

Lets get this over with

CannonFodder · June 22, 2002, 23:38

I say we jack it up to 80% and grab up mobile warfare! MUAHAHAHA!

cavebear · June 23, 2002, 00:12

Artillery in Communism sounds pretty good too. Besides, I hate talking "fundie".

Kropotkin · June 23, 2002, 04:57

Increase it to 80%. Karl Marx taught us that changes in the means of production is the driving force in the historical dialectics and the quickest way to true global communism!!!

Also, we have a huge fisc. surplus. The loss in monetary resources for bribing will pay off as even more superior weapons that's more economical in the long run and we will in a longer perspective get a larger fisc. surplus as our external costs goes down.

MrWhereItsAt · June 23, 2002, 07:31

I think we are diehard Commies and it is this government form that shalll emerge dominant.

In theory, Communism works. In the real world, it rarely does. But in our game, theory rules.

Minister of WAR, not peace.
MrWIA.

JCP · June 24, 2002, 14:51

A usefull information should be how many turns for discoveries with each science rate.

(as basis citizens, we know only 70% =>4turns.)

cavebear · June 24, 2002, 15:07

With Luxuries at 0% (as they currently are):

80% - 4 turns - 81 net gold
70% - 4 turns - 138 net gold
60% - 5 turns - 191 net gold
50% - 6 turns - 249 net gold
40% - 6 turns - 293 net gold
30% - 8 turns - 351 net gold

Going for gold might be worth considering...

After we get Spies, anyway.

-Jrabbit · June 24, 2002, 15:12

I'm with atawa. oonce we have spies and cavalry, we'll have enough of a tech lead to CRUSH OUR ENEMIES and a move to Fundy will give us nearly unlimited rushbuilds and bribery funds.

Any techs discovered by others can then be appropriated to our cause in the normal course of events.
(The normal course of events being to take CItY AFTER CITY AFTER CITY.

FUNDY MEANS SWIFT AND TOTAL VICTORY!!

cavebear · June 24, 2002, 16:03

Quote:

Originally posted by -Jrabbit
I'm with atawa. oonce we have spies and cavalry, we'll have enough of a tech lead to CRUSH OUR ENEMIES and a move to Fundy will give us nearly unlimited rushbuilds and bribery funds.

Any techs discovered by others can then be appropriated to our cause in the normal course of events.
(The normal course of events being to take CItY AFTER CITY AFTER CITY.

FUNDY MEANS SWIFT AND TOTAL VICTORY!!

We already have Cavalry (43, and 16 in production). We even have Marines, if we want to build them.

The Civiliopedia is not really detailed on the advantages of Fundamentalism, and I seldom use it (just usually can't stand to take the loss of tech research). Tell me more about what we gain from it.

-Jrabbit · June 24, 2002, 17:28

I'm sure I will be inaccurate here, since I just did my first Fundy win. that's OK, I'm sure others will be quick to correct me.

The main advantages of fundamentalism in a military victory scenario are --

1. "Tithing" from your cities produces extra funds aplenty.

2. Each city can support 10 militia in the field before you're charged a shield. Kinda like a King Richard's in every city.

3. No unhappiness -- ever. It's against the law!

As you can probably guess, I totally kicked butt this weekend. I changed from Coomie to Fundy as soon as I had Tactics and Espionage. Yes, eventually, Destroyers happen, but by then the sea power questions had been asked and answered -- which we're well on our way to doing here.

Sound familiar?

FUNDY ROCKS !!

-Jrabbit · June 24, 2002, 17:31

I should also add that this means you can run your tax rate ridiculously high, with no luxuries or science required. Annual surpluses get WAY higher than what we're currently seeing.

One of the Scouse Gits -- SG[1] IIRC -- is a hard-core fundy player.

H Tower · June 24, 2002, 18:00

once we get industrialization and espionage we should go to fundy and jack up the tax rate.

cavebear · June 24, 2002, 18:20

So the increase in building units comes from the rush-builds, which comes from the tithing... OK, I can understand that. Sort of a minor "Capitalization".

Oh the shame... From King, to Premier, to High Priest. Where will it end?

But, the will of the Citizens shall be done, in civ as it is in politics. Efficiency shall rule.

I'll poll about it...

CannonFodder · June 24, 2002, 18:25

You guys really should play some scenarios now and then, it's a great way to learn the inticracies of the Civ2 governments.

civman2000 · June 24, 2002, 19:02

I'm a fundyist too

atawa · June 24, 2002, 19:12

With Fundi we have almost no unit support, plus with Mike's we get a lot of extra money

Lets do it

Marquis de Sodaq · June 25, 2002, 10:51

How about becoming a democracy? Fundy is $ and units, but we are already slapping the AI about like a ragdoll! Fundamentalism just makes it too easy...

I suggest democracy after we have pummeled the AI down to just a city or two remaining, in order to boost our score.

JCP · June 25, 2002, 15:34

Fundy or democrcy ? why not remaining commies : in Civ2, it works !

With communism, we continue to progress... hotwizers are the best battle field units for that kind of world !.
Fundamentalism may accelerate the total conquest.
As we are in a bellicist attitude, democracy is out of matter : why trying a better score ? if we want one, we must keep an ennemy city, turn to democracy, disband most units and growing with luxuries ans WLTPD and continue, and continue... up to 2005 and launching our spacial ship for AC ! For that, no need citizens and councellors : one président pasts long hours to finish the game !

atawa · June 25, 2002, 15:57

I feel the game would get boring when there is nobody left to kill

And why do we need howitsers against phalanx

cavebear · June 25, 2002, 16:32

We don't need Howitzers against Phalanx. But we do need something against a Walled city filled with Musketeers that is too expensive to bribe and resists having our Spies knock down the Walls.

I think it is best to have a Spy Squad that travels together from city to city ahead of our positioned Cavalry. Let them investigate the city, see what the bribe price is, then destroy the Walls if required with several attacking in turn til they fall.

And there is no point in adopting any game strategy that doesn't offer participation by the Citizens...