Minitourney III - Spoilers

[jshelr]

Sounds like fun to me.

[Velociryx]

Will make it a standard 8 map then, so we don't exclude anybody....how's that sound?

It'll feel strange not having my industrious workers (nor a steady supply of slave labor from lots of warring...Hmmm....maybe I'll not be alone on the continent tho....dunno!), but that's okay...if we ARE isolated, I'll be able to forego much military and double up on the number of workers....that should get it done.

Yeah...I'll play around with it tonight...see what I can come up with....will probably post periodic notes on the game in progress (fairly detailed, since everybody will eventually inherit the Kingdom to make their own), so you can track the progress.

As to when....the main thing is that I'd like to leave lots of possible branches to head down....I'll leave that part floating for the moment, and see how the game develops.

-=Vel=-

[Txurce]

Nathan, I blanked on your citing Chinan as your FP site... and guessed it my first time. Optimal location, indeed. I see what you mean about infrastructure. Great job.

By the way, just as the rough terrain was a notable factor in the German tourney game, I think that the large continents played a similar role in this one. The amount of land available for the taking was large enough to be a strategic factor (which I ignored). Along with the more research-friendly Monarch setting, it made peaceful, research-focused expansion the smartest way to go.

[alexman]

Originally posted by Txurce
What happened in your game?

I'm always interested in the details of fast starts. How did you research your way to the Middle Ages so quickly, apart from the slider being at 100%? Lots of cities? Libraries? I haven't played at Monarch in ages until the two current tourneys, but building cavalry in 830 with only the locals to share tech with seems very fast.

I haven't had time to finish my game yet, but I'm at 1330 A.D. and I'm going to enter the modern age in two turns. I will invade with modern armor as soon as I upgrade all my tanks. The other civs just discovered steam power last turn. I'm still in Republic and getting everything in four turns with science at 50%. I won't switch to Democracy.

My research went fast because, just like Nathan, I focused on infrastructure early on, and let the AI develop their cities. When I got Egypt's territory, it was already developed (industrious enemies rock) and the FP in Memphis doubled my production instantly.

By the way, I was bulding cavalry three centuries before 830 A.D., as I beelined for it

[Chemical Ollie]

Originally posted by Txurce


Olaf:

Very nice adjustment with the longbows, and your wonder building is impressive. How much production did your capital have, with so many temp cities within its radius?

Well, during the GA, my capital was size 12 and had about 50 production shields if I recall right. Or was it 35? I don't have a savegame to check. The temp cities were not really cannibalising the capital but rather the first ring of regular cities.

About the wonders: I have not been beaten on a single wonder since I wrote my last game summary. TOE helped me to Hoover (Three Gorges) and I had been prebuilding both.

[Catt]

I finally finished my game and read through all the posts here. Sounds like fun had by all. I enjoyed the game, but I think that the fortuitous start affected my game in a similar way to others – the game was essentially won by the middle ages, and I hung around into the modern era just so I could play with some modern toys. That being said, my start was quite different than the ones you all have described.

*********

Chinese Domination

I built two or three warriors for exploration, and pretty quickly met both the Japanese and the Egyptians. I popped four or five goody huts – one conscript warrior and the rest barbarians. But I didn’t lose any explorers, and ended up with several elites as a result. I identified a river location five tiles northeast of Beijing (I built where I started) with two cows as the location for city number 2 – this would be a settler pump. Overall, the start looked very good – excellent terrain, seemingly a lot of room for expansion, and a welcome neighbor in Egypt as I wouldn’t feel threatened by them (I knew that with the Japanese in the game, I would have to cripple them before samurai or fight a painful middle ages war).

Fertile grasslands with a good smattering of hills and mountains for production, and lots of rivers – a definite builder opportunity. I have never employed Sir Ralph’s ultra-early archer rush and quickly decided against experimenting with it here. I planned on expanding like crazy until nearly out of the ancient age, and then going after Japan before the advent of samurai. I bought (or traded) for The Wheel from Tokugawa, and identified what I though was the closest horses far to my east, in what I would later learn was the approximate center of the continent. At least there were hills / mountains close by but more importantly, a cow. I selected the tile between the horses and the cow as a city site for city 4 or 5 when I got to that point and my industrious workers had a road built out that way. I started researching the Alphabet – I planned on bee-lining to Literature and the Great Library, so I could turn off research and build infrastructure and chariots / horsemen.

But I’m getting a little bit ahead of myself. Except for the exploration and the goody huts results, most of the foregoing was all a gleam in my eye – the very early planning stages of a game where one takes the lay of the land and forms one’s overall strategy and near to medium term goals. Before I got my first settler to the “cow” location northeast of Beijing, Tokugawa built his second city very close to Beijing – he expanded directly towards my capital from his. His escorting spearman fortified in Osaka, but his escorting warrior continued on towards Beijing. In 2800 BC, Tokugawa’s warrior was just outside Beijing – my first settler had just reached his designated city tile, but not yet built city #2, and Beijing had just produced another warrior (making two in the city) so that I could finally pop the goody hut just east of Beijing. I politely asked Tokugawa to leave my territory; he apologized and agreed.

[Catt]

At this point, I had six warriors (one conscript from a goody hut), the sixth just having been built in Beijing making a garrison of two warriors. The remainder are somewhat scattered to the winds, doing what they were supposed to do – explore. My military advisor informed me that I had a strong military compared to Japan. I decided to have Beijing start on a few archers just in case Tokugawa planned on getting aggressive. I ended my turn. Tokugawa then declared war and attacked Beijing with his interloping warrior – which promptly died. This is actually the earliest I’ve ever gone to war (2800 BC) – I haven’t even built my second city yet! and Tokugawa built his second city perhaps 2 or 3 turns before!

It took a few turns to assemble three warriors for the assault on Osaka, but the battle was won – just barely – one warrior survived. Osaka’s spearman fell and the city was auto-razed. I started building troops (primarily archers) for the march on Kyoto, slipping in a settler as population growth permits. My first assault on Kyoto failed – I lost three or four archers and several warriors while my protecting spearman retreated to some nearby mountains. During this long early war, I always had units close to Kyoto, and Tokugawa was not able to expand beyond his capital city. I on the other hand was able to loose a settler every now and again, and planted my fifth city, Tsingtao, near the horses I had identified so long ago.

Tsingtao was largely undefended – I had a warrior within reach, but nothing else within two or three turns of movement (rivers are wonderful – except when you need quick movement in the ancient age). A Japanese exploring warrior (now elite) suddenly appeared from the north, and all I could do was hope my lone warrior held out against his more experienced foe. Unfortunately, he could not. My “horse city” was destroyed. Had Tokugawa been willing to make peace before the destruction of Tsingtao, I would have been generous in order to avoid Tsingtao’s razing; with the fall of Tsingtao, I vowed to take Kyoto. And I worried that Cleopatra would get a settler to Tsingtao’s ruins before I could do so.

My reinforcement armies marched on Kyoto, and a pair of archers, moving rapidly along my industrious road network, managed to capture a Japanese settler who tried to escape to Kyoto’s northeast. At this point, without warning or provocation, Cleopatra declared war on China independently (i.e., not allied with Tokugawa). My second assault on Kyoto was successful, and Japan no longer had any cities. But the remnants of Japanese society regrouped (respawned) to the south-eastern most portion of the continent, many years’ hike from Beijing.

I made peace with Tokugawa in his new capital of Osaka, taking everything he had, and turned my armies north and east towards the lands of Egypt. Cleo managed one spiritless attack on a Chinese city and then sued for peace. Although I felt that Egypt should pay for its unprovoked attack, I resolved that she could pay in gold and technology rather than captured and razed cities. I took nearly everything Cleopatra had, and fortified my positions rather than engaging in another 500 years of war. Military production requirements and support costs had greatly slowed our entire continent’s technological advancements, and it looked to be a very late entry into the Middle Ages. Furthermore, I needed to expand into the wonderful lands surrounding China’s nascent empire (particularly in those areas near iron deposits now that I had extorted iron working) and work on my infrastructure in preparations for a horseman assault on the remnants of the Japanese civilization. Tokugawa’s dastardly sneak attack before I had even founded my second city required Japan’s complete destruction, and I vowed that Tokugawa would never, ever have a chance to build even one single samurai. I decided to eliminate him and his pitiful civilization out of a sense of duty and honor, and no longer simply out of prudent game tactics.

Shortly after the first wars concluded, my wise men discovered Writing. But none of me and my two neighbors had made contact with any other civilization. I began to suspect that we were alone on a largish continent, and decided that the Great Library was not a worthy object of China’s production efforts. I continued my Pyramids build, but with the intention of building the Hanging Gardens. I set my research sights on Monarchy, a form of government I intend to adopt and retain through any early Middle Age wars. I also managed to build a new city on the ruins of Tsingtao – Chengdu could become a production powerhouse, and a potential site for a Forbidden Palace. Although no iron deposit was visible nearby, I also held out hope that iron could later appear, and, with a lot of luck, Chengdu might one day build the Iron Works.

Sometime in the 200’s BC, the Chinese people selected Mao as the Chinese Constitutional Monarchy’s first King. In 130 AD the good citizens of Beijing completed the Hanging Gardens great wonder, bringing satisfied contentment across China’s lands.

By the second century AD it had become abundantly clear to the Chinese that our land mass was shared by only the untrustworthy Egyptians and the nefarious Japanese. Only the Egyptians represented any conceivable threat to greater Chinese glory. King Mao determined that the time was near when China’s expansion eastward would proceed, and would proceed at Egypt’s expense. Because of the length of the Chinese-Egyptian border, Mao planned on a short campaign to move eastward, followed by a quick peace to allow for proper defensive fortification of such a broad border. The goals of the initial Chinese expansionist war would be: (1) generate at least one great leader; (2) push our borders eastward to within striking distance of Thebes and the tempting ivory surrounding it; and (3) trigger the Egyptian golden age during a time of war, and during a war without iron so that the most potent military unit that the production of a golden age could produce would be war chariots / archers / spearmen. Of particular interest was the Egyptian city of Hierconpolis, built in the same mountain range as Chengdu, but to Chengdu’s south. Hierconpolis, like Chengdu, looked to be a potential production powerhouse – more importantly to my present concerns, Hierconpolis contained what was then the Egyptian’s only source of iron.

Four Chinese armies, each consisting of between 6 and 8 horsemen, and two escorted by swordsmen, prepared for a simultaneous assault on four Egyptian cities.

[Catt]

All four assaults were successful, with relatively few losses. Either Cleopatra had neglected building swordsmen or had not had the opportunity to do so before completing a road to the iron deposits outside of Hierconpolis – for the Chinese forces faced few, if any swordsmen. Cleopatra sent numerous war chariots at our occupying forces, and with one early war chariot victory certainly entered the Egyptian golden age. But the Chinese defenses held, and Mao’s forces counterattacked at wounded chariots again and again in an effort to generate a great leader. This was accomplished in the 16th elite unit victory (chances of a leader 1/16 anyone ).

Our first great leader (Sun Tzu, I believe) formed a horseman army which promptly defeated a wounded war chariot. Shortly thereafter, in 310 AD, the Chinese graciously made peace with the Egyptians, taking all available technologies, a world map and all gold in Cleopatra’s treasury.

The war was considered by the Chinese people to be an overwhelming success. We accomplished all three of our initial goals. Beijing was building the Heroic Epic small wonder; our borders pushed eastwards and now had us within near striking distance of Thebes; and the Kingdom of China now controlled all know sources of iron on our continent. Furthermore, the Egyptian golden age was underway, and was no doubt being used to produce a large number of now nearly useless war chariots in order to repopulate the devastated Egyptian army. A second great leader (for a Forbidden Palace) would have been welcome (and very lucky), but one leader and a victorious army had been Mao’s goal. The Chinese had not forgotten the bloodthirsty betrayal of the despotic Tokugawa, and Mao would waste no time in shifting his available forces south for the planned destruction of the Japanese.

In making preparations for the destruction of the final pieces of the Japanese empire, Chinese horsemen have been tracking 2 settlers (and their escorts) roaming through the unpopulated interior of China’s empire. Around 450 AD, Japan builds two cities, in each case surrounded by Chinese population centers and/or the south China sea. Although it would have been nice to capture the settlers as slave workers, Mao’s forces were not yet in position to make a lightening strike on Japanese core interests. But now is the time to strike, before the newly founded cities can build any additional defensive improvements / units.

In 470 AD, China declared war on Japan, and very quickly destroyed Tokugawa’s two newly founded cities and captured one of Tokugawa’s 4 remaining cities. Over the course of the next 150 years (most of it spent in travel time through forests and hills to Japan’s 3 remaining cities) Japan was systematically dismembered. Tokugawa never had the opportunity to move out of despotism or to build a samurai. Mao felt so sorry for him of course . Justice was finally fully served for the dastardly Japanese attack in 2800 BC and the Chinese people rejoice.

Some 50 years before the conclusion of the Chinese-Japanese war, Cleopatra, less than 20 turns after seeking peace with the Chinese, declared war against China again. She promptly lost one city that the Egyptians had snuck onto the northern coast well west of China’s eastern borders, and shortly thereafter a large and productive Egyptian frontier city was razed to the ground. But Mao refused to see Cleo’s envoy, and was instead determined to fight until another great leader appeared since the Japanese war failed to produce a leader despite numerous elite victories. In 620 AD, a second great Chinese leader appeared, and Mao promptly made peace with Cleopatra, again draining her treasury and taking whatever techs she may have accumulated during the peaceful portion of her golden age. War would resume, but on Mao’s terms and at a time of Mao’s choosing. The next war would be fought with the fearsome Chinese riders.

The second Chinese great leader was used to rush a forbidden palace in Chengdu, located at near the center of the “Chinese” continent (for that’s what it would be one day). Mao, knowing he would need to expand overseas, planned to relocate his palace to the new world when it was discovered and partially subjugated. Cleopatra’s world map also showed Mao that, though currently unconnected and one tile outside the nearest Egyptian city, an iron deposit did lie well behind Egyptian lines. Destruction of the future Egyptian iron mine would allow Chinese riders to fight against spearmen and perhaps a few pikemen – a welcome opportunity. In preparing for the next war, Mao kept his eye on the sole Egyptian iron supply.

The Chinese technological research was nearly stagnant. China was still a constitutional monarchy, and intended to remain so until after its expected war with Egypt to trigger a golden age. Mao also spent many centuries building cities and city infrastructure to fill out the undeveloped land west of the Chinese eastern border, and to prepare a full and ripe Chinese empire for a golden age. Furthermore, Mao had a very large stable of horseman that would need to be upgraded to Chinese riders at quite a pretty penny a pop – so Mao bided his time and let research dribble along at a snail’s pace.

In 1080 AD, China and Egypt finally (!) had first contact with nations from across the oceans. Though Mao was pleased to discover a significant “score” lead as well as a moderate power lead, he was disappointed at the technological backwardness of his own civilization. The Germans had already built Copernicus’ Observatory, many others were building JS Bach’s Cathedral, and the English were building Magellan’s voyage. Mao knew that his research had proceeded at a snail’s pace but did not mind – he fully intended to catch up through trading, warfare and his coming golden age.

Here is the Histograph (with a superimposed minimap) from 1080 AD.

[Catt]

Around 1150 AD the Chinese traded its technological advance “Chivalry” to the entire world (including the hated enemy Egyptians) significantly catching up in the technology race and securing a fair amount of gold. But Mao had already placed an innocent galley loaded with two Chinese pikemen just outside Cleopatra’s northern borders – just two moves from an unloading point onto the Egyptian mountain containing Egypt’s sole supply of iron. Mao calculated that Cleopatra would have little, if any, time to build knights before a rider onslaught.

In 1170 AD, with approximately 30 riders, 15 elite horsemen, and a number of pikemen and musketmen ready for war, Mao declared war against Egypt, intending to quickly take around 50% of the Egyptian empire and then make a 20-turn peace to: (1) exploit the remainder of the Chinese golden age for peaceful economic development; (2) consolidate and upgrade as necessary; and (3) prepare for the final destruction of Egypt following said 20-turn peace (or not, if Mao felt Cleo could still be toyed with for fun and games). Mao’s objectives in this war were: (1) trim Egypt and make Cleo into a permanent vassal state to be coddled or destroyed at will; (2) take Thebes and its surrounding ivory; (3) take from the Egyptians their sole source of saltpeter, which lies just east of Chinese borders; and, of course (4) generate great leaders for Smith’s Trading Company, Newton’s University, Magellan’s Voyage and/or Universal Suffrage eventually.

The first Chinese rider attack was successful, and China entered its golden age. The Chinese were quite surprised to be facing primarily spearmen, war chariots, longbowmen, and the occasional musketman, but hardly any pikemen and certainly no knights. The Chinese pikemen landed successfully in Northern Egypt, severed the sole iron supply and fortify in their mountain positions. Chinese riders secured the former Egyptian city that offered the Egyptians their sole source of saltpeter. Several additional Egyptian cities fall. Mao then took the war very slowly and with great care, husbanding elite units and carefully plotting their attacks to ensure success – with Egypt denied both iron and saltpeter, the war was largely won, and Mao could probably take cities at will – but Mao wanted great leaders, and so he reigned in his forces, and largely waited for the Egyptians to come to him. Mao also hoped that Cleopatra might complete Smith’s Trading Company, which she had started just before the war, so that he could then take it with the fall of an Egyptian city. But even with the Heroic Epic built and working away, no Chinese leaders were appearing. Perhaps the battles were too lopsided to inspire Mao’s Chinese warriors?

And then, quite to Mao’s surprise, several Egyptian cavalry appeared! This changed the war’s dynamic somewhat, and Mao knew that the Egyptians must be trading for saltpeter in order to build cavalry. A swarm of Chinese riders surrounded Thebes (which had largely been left unmolested other than a pillaged tile or two, for fear of so demoralizing the Egyptians that a spirited fight would never come). Within a few turns, all roads leading to Thebes were severed, and 10+ riders were fortified on a hill just east of the city, taking opportunities to destroy the occasional passing cavalry and longbowmen. Still no leaders appeared. And then once again Mao was caught quite surprised – Egyptian riflemen were seen massing to the south and north-west. The blasted Germans (scientific) must have completed Magnetism and gotten Nationalism – somehow Cleopatra had traded for it. Cleopatra was also no longer building Smith’s, and Mao made the decision to take Thebes (and pray for a leader) and then make peace. In a series of attacks by only elite units on Thebes, the defending lone rifleman and several spearmen fell, and on the penultimate battle for control of Thebes, the third Chinese great leader of the game appeared. With Thebes (and several other cities) taken, Cleopatra was only to happy to make peace, and gave up all of her technology (except Nationalism, which she absolutely refused to give) and all of her gold.

The war ended, and the accomplishments were a mixed bag. Although the Chinese had taken Thebes and its ivory, had generated a great leader which built Smith’s Trading Company, and had significantly trimmed Egypt’s productive power, Mao was twice caught by surprise by superior Egyptian military units, and spent more golden age time than he would have liked in a war. On the other hand, with the successful pillage and capture of Egypt’s sole sources of iron and saltpeter, Mao felt comfortable enough that the war was firmly in control, and did manage to convert much of his golden age productive power into infrastructure development, even while the war raged on.

With peace and the conclusion of China’s golden age, the Chinese people elected to convert their constitutional monarchy into a modern republic. Thereafter, China’s production and commercial advantages were unbeatable, and the game seemed a forgone conclusion (was probably true at the beginning of my war with Egypt). The Chinese missed Newton’s University by a whisker, but successfully built the Universal Suffrage, the Theory of Evolution, and Hoover Dam. And Chengdu (the location of China’s forbidden palace and a hoped for Iron Works) never did get a source of iron or coal within its radius – but Hierconpolis just south of Chengdu did, and the Iron Works was built there.

Shortly after the discovery of Replaceable Parts, Mao was surprised to see that no one had yet taken Paris – Joan had been peacefully OCCing it since the 600’s AD (I learned from the game replay). Paris, you see, contained the Sistine Chapel. Two Chinese galleons of infantry and a few cavalry sent Joan to her retirement, secured Sistine for greater Chinese happiness, and established a beachhead city in the new world.

Every twenty turns or so, Mao traded technologies for luxuries to the overseas powers. Had this been a “normal” game, Mao would simply have taken the luxuries, but he has his heart set on naval invasion and “Fun and Games with Modern Armor” and other modern toys. The tech trading (more like gifting!) keeps the new world reasonably caught up in technology.

Cleopatra was an aggressive warmonger from the early BC years, and the late years were no different. In 1730 AD, when I’d finally had enough waiting around, I decided to take the Chinese continent and ready the dogs of war for the new world. Cleopatra was already at war with all other nations in the world. Poor Cleo had no chance.

A “mini-tribute” to Zachriel’s Civ III home pages:

[Catt]

In 1758 I made peace with a OCC Cleo so I can take whatever she has (and to avoid going all the way to a small island south of the new world where Cleo has one hold-out city. Cleo was destroyed by the Germans a few turns later.

I began scripting my cross-ocean invasion. Paris already had an airport, twenty infantry, a dozen or so tanks, and 16 artillery. Given my enthusiasm for marines (probably well-known by those in this thread) I felt I simply had to use them in this mini-tourney (and I have already built 16 of them for just such a purpose). In reality, this is not a game I would have used them. I already had a safe, secure airport city on the continent, and there simply weren’t many attractive targets for an amphibious assault. And, after building SETI, I traded away Computers to the new world to "even the playing field" somewhat (since no one, not even Germany, was building any tanks ). England had been engaged in war with Egypt for a long, long time, and was now communist. I felt that she would certainly attack Paris if I didn’t attack first. So, knowing I needed to use marines, I settled on Nottingham as the best target – it contained both Sun Tzu’s and Magellan’s, and provided easy access to London and the Pyramids. I assembled an invasion force and slowly moved it towards the seas north of London.

Sure enough, in 1818 Liz attacked without warning, well before I could get my amphibious assault force positioned. A stack of 100 English infantry (and a few riflemen) marched on Paris. I immediately allied with America and Germany, and the dismemberment of England commenced. While my offensive emanated mainly from Paris (and the English stack was totally destroyed in two or three turns), I did eventually use my marines to launch a flanking attack on Dover – the city just east of Nottingham (Nottingham was defended by at least a pair of mechanized infantry, Dover by no more than normal infantry). After bombarment from three bombers on a nearby carrier, Dover fell easily without a single marine casualty, and the landed forces (tanks and mechanized infantry) took Nottingham on the same turn. I ended up using more marines in disbanding them for build starts and rushing builds during city resistance than for an amphibious assault.

[Catt]

I rushed an airport and took London (and the Pyramids) a turn or two after. England was gone only 10 or so turns after she decided to go to war, and the conquest of the English supplied the Chinese people with local supplies of both furs and silks, as well as three useful great wonders. The war with England was producing great leaders on just about every turn (sometimes more than one per turn). I was using them to rush libraries, cathedrals, universities, anything (already had 5 or 6 empty armies in the new world). I did eventually use a leader to relocate my palace to London.

At that point I could have easily stormed the Americans or Germans, but wanted to get modern armor, radar artillery, manufacturing plants, ICBMs etc. I researched Miniaturization and Genetics rather than bee-lining to Synthetic Fibers (in the hopes that the AI civs will get Synthetics or something else to make the end game more competitive without having to just give them techs to keep them in the game). I built the two Genetics wonders. But time started to creep, and it seemed like I’d been playing this game forever, so I decided to go get Synthetic Fibers, upgrade to MA, and take out America in a quest for a mercifully quick domination victory. Even with Abe’s 131 mechanized infantry, it took only 5 turns or so (while fortifying cities rather than stationing a few MA outside each conquered city in case of flips – probably a 2 turn war if I really pushed it, but I wanted to see some counter-attacks and how my defenses stacked up). A domination win soon followed.

I tried hard to take the game all the way through the tech tree, but on my older laptop (PII 400 or 450 mz w/128 mb RAM) the game was simply slowing down a bit too much for me in a game that was already a foregone conclusion. Ended in 1894. Domination with only me and Germany left.

************

Some game notes:

* The great start location (lots of rivers and grassland) made for a pretty easy game.
* Definitely my earliest war – 2800 BC. I’ve seen chatter on the boards about an “aggression flag” being triggered by early warfare. Don’t know how that works, but Japan’s early attack and a series of early skirmishes with Egypt basically turned Cleo into a bloodthirsty (but very unsuccessful) warmonger.
* From the game replay, I could see that Russia also went to war very early, and succeeded in taking a bite out of France and America; Russia was then dismembered by America, Germany and England, and was left with 3 cities around 500 AD. France was OCCing it in Paris from 630 AD onwards. A few other “new world” wars, but no great gains or losses – overall more pacifist than the Chinese mainland.
* My luck with barbarian huts was about the same as most (not like Vel’s )– I got one conscript warrior, one village just east of Beijing was deserted (I waited a long time to pop it – until I had two warriors in Beijing) and the remaining 4 or 5 contained barbarians - although I survived all attacks IIRC. I experienced one barbarian uprising, but managed to get undefended workers and a few extra units into the endangered city before the attack – I lost a few units, but the rest were promoted to elite.
* My tech rate (like others’) was slow; in my case very, very slow. I attributed this to the very early warfare which really crimped Japan’s and my research efforts, and to a lesser extent Egypt’s, my extended stay in Monarchy (until the 1300’s!), and a lackadaisical approach to my own research efforts (knowing that neither a UN or Spaceship defeat was possible) – I was keeping research somewhat low and using the surplus cash to rush city improvements, stockpile for upgrades, and after discovery of the new world, to buy some techs. Interesting to know whether the rate among AI was so slow for an identifiable, game specific reason as Vel posits. Also very interesting to see that I entered the Middle Ages around 500 AD – several others did so BC!
* I couldn’t possibly have won via domination as early as Txurce, but probably could have done so a century or two earlier than I did. I really wanted to get through the tech tree and make war under the threat of nuclear attack, but interest was flagging and I just had to end it. BTW, I destroyed the American city that had built the Manhattan Project, wondering (after reading it here or at CivFanatics) whether the destruction of the wonder would really prevent further nuclear weapons production – it doesn’t.
* Couldn’t successfully plant a spy into a democracy (as a republic) until my eighth try.
* I think that I need to spend a little bit more time in alexman’s corruption thread. When I relocated my palace from Beijing to London, effective production went UP significantly on my mainland in the former Egyptian cities – these cities remained far closer to my FP in Chengdu than the new palace in London, and only a few tiles closer to the new palace than the old palace in Beijing (a few tiles out of like 25 total!). To top it off, Beijing and its surroundings lost very little production and commercial power to corruption and waste post-palace jump. I will look more closely at the changes soon to better understand why this happened.

Catt

[Jawa Jocky]

Catt that was a great summary

I had a slow tech rate as well. I hit the middle ages about the same time as you (if memory serves correct). I used oscillating war but with only two neighbors there was not a lot of tech to extort (plus I never really gave them a chance to research much).

I feel your pain on the speed issue. My PII 450 with 256 doesn't do well either

[Chemical Ollie]

The Egyptian longbowman was homesick and exhausted after years of campain in hostile China, walking at daytime and helping his better armed infantry comrades to dig trenches before nightfall. He had not seen much close combat, as the Chink bastards were deeply entrenched on the hills, while his own men had to keep in the valleys where the Chinese artillery shells kept falling on them day and night. The few efforts they had made to take a hill had ended in Phyrrus' victories at the best, but more often repelled with heavy casualties.

His own task in the huge invasion force was that of a scavanger. He was supposed to kill wounded enemies who could not make it to their own lines before nightfall, enslave astray enemy civilians and loot as much of the enemy resources as he could. He could still remember the rape and plunder party he and his comrades had at a Chinese wineyard just at the former border. He had heard from liberated slaves that the enemy civilians were pretty upset by that little move and had protested on the streets of every city when their wine stores had gone empty. The Chinese government had been forced to use a great deal of their war funds to keep the citicens happy. At least he had achieved something in this war before it turned into the misery it had become.

The heavily armed infantrymen in his division were taking the worst blow from the shellings, as they had to keep guard looking over the top of the trenches to watch for the enemy cavallery that occasionly came charging down the hills. Most of the time, the Chinese cavallery were moved down by the heavy machineguns his better armed comrades carried, but quite a few times they killed his badly shrapnel-wounded comrades before riding back to the hills. Most of the infantrymen had at least one peace of shrapnel in his body. Some were even missing limbs and had to be carried. The longbowman had to help in this task as the few, still healthy men with machineguns had to be used for guard duty.

By now, his general had decided to retreat with the army to native Egypt to resupply. But when they finally arrived at the border after the long walk, all Egyptian road signs was now in Chinese and the mountain range that law between them and long-loved Egypt was soiled with Chinese trenches, barbed wire and machinegun nests. It would be a loooong walk home indeed.

As he lay in the shallow thrench, rather a muddy ditch than a useful shelter, he heard the shells coming closer. You never really got used to being under constant barrage. The fear was unbearable and he had seen many men loosing it and try to run away, only to be hit by flying shrapnel. Now the grenade impacts were less than a hundred meters away and he tried to lay as flat as he could in the wet mud, trembling with could and fear. Men were screaming with fear and agony all around him. He saw them in the bright light of full moon. Suddenly he flet a hard blow to his tigh. He grabbed his leg with his hand and felt the warm blood running. He had been hit, for the first time in this long war! He tried to crawl to the squad medic only to find him dead.

Suddenly the barrage stopped. This could only mean one thing. The Chinks were coming! He looked over the top and expected to see enemy cavallery get moved down by his machinegunner fellows, but saw none of it. Instead the hill slopes were flooded with running Chinese infantrymen, making a charge on his position. Why weren't his comrades shooting back? A chill went down his spine when he realised they were dead. Now it was just his regiment of longbows against enemies with machine guns! He stood up and ran in the opposite direction, staggering with his wounded leg. Some of his comrades tried to hit the enemy, but the arrows fell short. Bursts of machinegun fire redused Egyptians all around him to masses of blood.

He dived into the next line of trenches and found a machine gun in the hands of a fallen comrade. So had many of his fellows done. They were just about to start shooting when the enemy suddenly turned back and returned to the hills. He realised how young the enemy soldiers looked. They were just kids. It seemed their mission was not to overrun his position but to gain battle experience. How humiliating! These Chink kids were hardly borned when the war started and now they were using him and his comrades for target practice! But what could he do about it? He had to tend his wound before he lost too much blood. He also started to feel the pain.

A medic was dressing his tigh when he heard an awful noise from the opposite side. It sounded like some kind of machinery, but nothing like the steam train that had taken him and his unit from the barracks to the border in the beginning of the war. This sound was louder and more agressive. The medic looked horrified, cursed and ran away towards the trench were the longbowman had been hit. Longbowman raised his head and felt the blood freese in his veins. Down from the slopes opposite from where the Chink infantry had come, dozens of huge green-painted metal chunks on tracks were coming with a roaring sound. On top, they had turrets with long pipes that could only be cannons. He had never seen anything like it before. He found himself correct about the use of the pipes when he saw muzzle flames and heard the roar of thunder as they sent artillery shells with high precision onto the few machine gun positions still intact in the Egyptian defence line. Machine guns on the turrets sent tracers all over the place.

The pain in his leg was awful. He could not run away, so he crawled deeper down in the mud-filled trench. He felt the ground tremble as the mastodonts were closing. Some of his comrades were firing with machine guns onto them, but for no good. Suddenly the sky went dark. One of these Chinese war-machines had stopped over the trench, just above him! This must be almost the same fear people felt back in the good old days, when longbowmen made the sky black with arrows. Now it was his own turn to feel the horror. The awful machine started to turn on its tracks, left and right to wear the trench walls down. He would be crushed and could do nothing about it. At least I raped myself some stupid Chink ***** back at the wine yard, was Longbowman's last thought before the 50 tonnes of steal pressed him into a mess of mud and blood.

[Catt]

Olaf, I really enjoyed your story.

On a side note, I am assuming that you're not an American masquerading as a Swede (your use of the "continental English" terms like "wine stores" and "hundred meters"). And, given that I've made that first assumption, I am going to assume that you're not a native English speaker but truly are a Swede.

Just wanted to say that, in addition to liking the story, I am really impressed with your mastery of English.

I lived in Italy for a while and considered myself fluent, and lived in Egypt for awhile but was never fluent, traveled fairly broadly elsewhere -- in all I've picked up "liveable" abilities with several languages. BUT, I could never, ever, EVER hope to write in any language other than my own native American english with anything even close to your skill, fluency and idiomatic ability. Truly amazing and impressive.

Not only a great short "vignette" of a story, but a really impressive mastery of a second language.

[And if you're an American ex-pat masquerading as a Swede, then I take it all back ]

Catt

[Theseus]

Catt, you're back!! I gotta sleep (NYC), so I'm going to wait till morn to read through your game. Look forward to it.

[nbarclay]

"Operation Overkill" was a smashing success: twenty-five cities spanning four rival nations and crossing the entire continent the first turn, twenty-four the second (including one I had to retake because I didn't bother to analyze England's counterattack potential adequately), and six hard-to-get-to cities the third (after the game was officially over due to a domination victory) to complete my conquest of the world. It's amazing what a hundred plus modern armor and a hundred twenty plus mechanized infantry can do to opponents who don't even have tanks yet! See why I wasn't concerned about happiness problems fighting as a Democracy? (Note: I won't absolutely guarantee the counts above; I counted while watching the replay, but I didn't doublecheck.)

There were several keys to doing the job so quickly:

(1) Since I knew the mech infs couldn't keep up on a blitz, I landed a large percentage of them in the mountainous area on the southwest of the enemy continent the same turn my modern armor initiated their attack. (That included four four-unit mech inf armies, since MIs could use the extra punch if they ran across defending infantry while MAs could take care of themselves.) Then the second turn, I took most of the southwest out using MIs, and the third, I finished the job. (I did have a tense moment when a couple shiploads of troops missed their landing date and had to stay at sea for an extra turn to get where they were needed, but they landed without incident.)

(2) I hit cities first and then cleaned up any troops in the area (unless the troops happened to be in the way). That way, MAs could get better use out of their multiple attacks (hitting one straggler, then railroading it to another) and MIs could get to more distant targets. On a similar note, there were some troops I ignored altogether at least for a while; it cost me a little when I found that I hadn't looked carefully enough at what some of them could do, but it stretched my forces farther.

(3) I'd brought over two transport-loads of slaves from my home continent to supplement my American captives and whatever I picked up along the way. That was only barely enough to keep me from stalling due to inadequate rails, but it was enough. (It probably wouldn't have been if I weren't a Democracy, by the way, although if I weren't a Democracy, I probably would have brought more workers.)

(4) Wounded MAs with at least three hit points left didn't stop fighting (and sometimes ones with only two kept fighting). There always seemed to be plenty of pikemen, spearmen, and other assorted obsolete units participating in city defense, and any unit a wounded MA could take out meant one more healthy MA I could use elsewhere.

(5) Because I had the forces to tackle all four opponents at once, I had more flexibility in planning my invasion routes. For example, I had to take St. Petersburg to get to Berlin quickly, and the best path to Leipzig went through Oxford.

By the way, the operation was launched as early as it could be: get the tech, upgrade all my tanks except for three elites (I already had the gold saved up), and go. Actually, the attack force could even have been stronger if I hadn't made research centers and recycling plants high-priority items once I got the necessary techs.

The file I'm enclosing in this message is a save after my landings but before I started my offensive.

Nathan

[nbarclay]

Now the save from the end of the first turn.

[nbarclay]

End of the second turn, which is what the world looked like when I officially won the game.

[nbarclay]

But what power-mad dictator could possibly settle for dominating the world when he's just six cities or so away from owning it? (Oops, I forgot, we were in a democracy. Make that, what nation caught in the grip of a raging fever of manifest destiny would possibly settle for dominating the world when they are just six cities away from owning it? )

Nathan

[Chemical Ollie]

Originally posted by Catt
Olaf, I really enjoyed your story.

On a side note, I am assuming that you're not an American masquerading as a Swede (your use of the "continental English" terms like "wine stores" and "hundred meters"). And, given that I've made that first assumption, I am going to assume that you're not a native English speaker but truly are a Swede.

Just wanted to say that, in addition to liking the story, I am really impressed with your mastery of English.

I lived in Italy for a while and considered myself fluent, and lived in Egypt for awhile but was never fluent, traveled fairly broadly elsewhere -- in all I've picked up "liveable" abilities with several languages. BUT, I could never, ever, EVER hope to write in any language other than my own native American english with anything even close to your skill, fluency and idiomatic ability. Truly amazing and impressive.

Not only a great short "vignette" of a story, but a really impressive mastery of a second language.

[And if you're an American ex-pat masquerading as a Swede, then I take it all back ]

Catt

Well, thanks! I am not an American in disguise and my mothers tounge is Swedish. I actually hold a Cambridge Certificate of Proficiency in English and use English to write scientific reports at my job every day. As you have noticed, I try to stick to British English to preserve the cultural integrity of Europe against Americanisation (notice the lack of Z in the last word). I also use SI units instead of yards and pounds just like the rest of the world, except for some stubborn, less than 5 % of the world population, who are Brits and Yankies. We're moving to the metric system inch by inch!

I am a little surprised that you are so impressed of my story. When I wrote the story it was after midnight, and I was to tired to read it through for spell and grammar check. Now when I read it in daylight I see that it is full of typos, strange grammar and peculiar use of words.

I think I have gotten my feel for war terminology by reading English paperbacks with war fiction (and some non-fiction) during business trips. My last read was "Blackhawd Down", which is highly recommended.

After reading your game summary, I notice that you and I seem to be the only ones who had some struggle to claim our own continent and keep up in tech with the AI. I think your early war with Japan slowed you down somewhat, as the barbarians who ransacked my first settler did. My game progress update to follow. The story contained some hints, but a more dry technical description would save time for us all.

[Chemical Ollie]

My bad luck with the resources continues! In retrospect, I was perhaps a little too eager to start the war with Egypt. Right after I built the Intel Agency, I provoked the already furious Egyptians to start the war as they captured my spy. I had about 30 cavallery but was soon chocked when I found out I could not build any more, as the saltpeter mine I had grabbed from Japan had expired. The Germans was only willing to sell it for unbearable cost. My first strike was done with artillery and cavallery on an Egypt city located in a tounge deeply into China. As the city was heavily defended with Infantry, I lost at least ten cavallery and all the rest were wounded before the city was finally razed.

Egypt countered by bringing huge stacks of various foot soilders deeply into my territory (also see my mini story to learn more about their fate). They looted the land, liberated some Japanese slaves left without guard, and even conquered one of my cities. I could take the city back on the next turn, but only with tremendous civilian casualties. I decided to move the city to a better location now when it was down to size 1 anyway. The worst blow came when Egypt pillaged my only wineyard on the same turn as my oversees trade deals expired. Huge war disorder followed, as I had no resources to renew the luxury trade. This slowed down my research for motorised transportation to take 15 turns instead of 10 (with one tech in between), which made my progress stall.

A second "tounge city" was located deeply into China, but despite constant artillery barrage, my few surviving cavallery was never able to take it, as it had too many defenders. Instead I focused my efforts to harass the huge invasion force of foot soldiers by denying them high ground and letting them walk long gauntlets through artillery fire. When all units in a stack was down to one HP, I used it to train infantry units to become elites and great leaders. I think the whole war gave me more than five leaders, who were used to create armies and rush things like War Academy and Pentagon. Thanks to the "Three Gorges" hydropower wonder, factories and mobilisation, my major cities were pumping out artillery and infantry every second turn.

Finally, I got tanks! Guess if the Germans was willing to pay for them? I got all they had in lux and money. My tanks used the wounded foot soldiers for target practice, just like my infantrymen had done (see mini story) before they gathered at the border cities for the assault. The tounge city was finally reduced to tourist attraction ruins. In less than ten turns, the up till now world leading Egypt was my vassal far up north of the continent.

The year is now 1750 something. As soon as the peace deal expires, Egypt will have to share the tiny Island to the north with Japan. By then, I will have computers and my tech trading with Europe is likely to end. I might try some short wars to get lux, Sixtine and bridge heads on the European continent, but mostly I expect a lot of space bar clicking until I have future tech and am ready to start WWIII.

[Catt]

Any chance of folks posting screenshots from their games (rather than just saves)? Saves take a long time to load and view, but a nice little screen shot would help tell the story (even if only minimaps from various points in the game).

Off-Topic: Olaf, don't resist the Americanization (notice the "z") -- we are trying hard for culture flips and expanding our territorial influence by miles, acres, yards feet and inches every day! Your occasional spelling / grammar errors largely convinced me that you weren't an ex-patriate American and also highlighted that you were probably writing the story on the fly -- that's what made it impressive! When I considered myself fluent in Italian, I would have (1) certainly taken longer to write what you did; (2) made plenty of errors; and (3) never had a chance at using (effectively) idioms and more esoteric words that are always so hard for non-native speakers to adopt and use.

Catt

[Txurce]

Catt, how do you make a screenshot to post? You're right that they make things much easier.

I'll read your version of the Iliad soon!

[Catt]

Posting screenshots can be easy or hard (depending on your own native software and comfort-level in using it) -- in my case the first time was a b**** and wasted over an hour, all subsequent times quite easy. And Txurce, this is all for a PC - I don't know about Macs.

1. While playing (or when reloading from key saves for that screenshot capture), have a graphics program also open -- MS Paint (an accessory program included in Windows) is sufficient.

2. Center your screen view wherever you like. Press ALT-PrintScreen at the same time. (PrintScreen is usually in the upper right of your keyboard, near the F12 key).

3. ALT-TAB to the graphics program. Press CTRL-V (or manually select the command for "Paste.")

4. Save graphics file. Repeat using new file names.

[A couple of complications due to Apolyton restrictions -- (1) attachments can't be bigger than 500K, and most "bitmaps" (graphics file format from MS paint for instance) are very large files. So you will need to convert your bitmap screenshot into a JPEG format (which is essentially just a file compression). Unfortunately, MS Paint won't save the file as a .jpg without screwing up the colors. I found a second graphics program called Imaging (also MS PhotoEditor) that allows you to easily save the bitmap in the .jpg format -- in the "Save As" window simply change the file format drop-down. And (2) graphics files won't post unless smaller than my default screen size (which was 1024 x 768 pixels) -- the Apolyton message told me to keep the size below "600 x 0" -- I didn't know if that typo meant 600 x 800 or 600 x 450 (which is the same ratio as 1024 x 768). So I resized my screenshots to 600 x 450.]

5. When posting, simply attach your .jpg file and the boards automatically present it as a graphic (instead of a downloadable file). Note that you can only post one graphic per post, and only at the end of your post -- thus my string of 5 or 6 posts in a row when it could have been one long one.

Most PCs come pre-installed with some sort of photo / image editor, whether it is Adobe PhotoShop, ArcSoft, MS Photo Editor, etc. (I found three different applications on my older laptop -- none were purchased off the shelf).

It was a bit of a chore the first time I did it (especially having to use different programs for resizing and converting to jpegs), but I got the hang of it quickly. Now when I play, I can capture and save screen shots with a few keystrokes, and later convert and resize a dozen shots in about 10 - 15 minutes.

EDIT: added a clarification.
EDIT: changed file size limit to 500K from 500mb ( - thanks FrustratedPoet)

Catt

[FrustratedPoet]

Originally posted by Catt
1) attachments can't be bigger than 500mb

shouldn't that be 500k? ... five hundred megabytes sounds a little large ...

This is an all-around AWESOME thread, btw.

Lots of the usual useful strategy tips, some cool stories and screenshots and now a graphics tutorial!

[alexman]

Catt, thanks for the great description of your game! You seem to have followed the spirit of this mini-tourney better than most of us. My 15th century invasion of MA versus riflemen is very boring, and surely not what Sir Ralph had in mind when he proposed this game.

As for the reason the corruption of your mainland cities improved after relocating your palace, think in terms of number of cities closer to the palace or the FP, not distance. Your palace and your FP both get an optimal number of cities, where the corruption with number of cities increases relatively slowly. Before the move, you probably had some overlap, which means that you had some cities that were within the optimal number of cities of both the palace and the FP. When that happens, you effectively reduce the optimal number of cities in your empire, because the overlapping cities count against the limit of both your palace and your FP.
When you moved your palace, the mainland cities closest to London suddenly got much lower corruption due to number of cities, even if they got slightly higher corruption due to distance. Does that make any sense?

[Catt]

alexman - I reread your corruption thread, but not sure if I fully understand how it works - if I understand how the optimal city number (OCN) factor works (a big if ), then your explanation of the effects in my game is almost certainly the correct explanation. Does the OCN factor determine which cities receive its benefits based on proximity to the palace / FP? Meaning, if the OCN is 16, do the closest 16 cities to the palace enjoy lower corruption due to OCN and due to the distance factor? Or is there some other manner of determining the OCN effects (or lack thereof). Put another way, once you've blown past the OCN, does the OCN factor largely go away and now corruption is down to pure distance / improvements / WLTKD?

Sheesh, I know I don't understand something well when I can't articulate it at all

I changed tactics a bit in this game and laid out a denser city build than I normally do -- most "native" Chinese cities only three or four tiles away from each other (backfilling where necessary). So, between my palace in Beijing and my FP in the center of the continent, there were a fair number of cities and no doubt some of them were overlapping. East and north of the FP (i.e., Egyptian lands), the cities were fewer and farther in between, a la typical AI build pattern.

By relocating my palace to London (also typical AI spread build patttern), I must have "made" the OCN effects reach out and benefit cities far, far away (which were then, in turn, mildly affected by the distance factor).

I will say that I was impresed with the extent to which Beijing and its surrounding cities were able to continue as production powerhouses after the palace move. In any event, I will go back and look at some saves to get a better feel for it.

Catt

[Theseus]

OK, back in the game (Catt and Olaf inspired me).

Dateline 1230AD:

I just went Industrial. I own the whole original continent. 53 cities. Everybody's polite... thanks, Arrian.

Got an FP in Thebes, but I'm still struggling just to get Temples and Libraries built. Republic.

Handbuilding the GWs is a pain, but looks like I'll do well.

90% of workers are automated... I just can;t deal with it otherwise.

England and France have Nationalism, I alone have MT. I'm skipping Nationalism, which I've never done before, and racing for Rep. Parts.... it's only 3 techs!! England is the AI power; I can't believe Liz isn't taking out Bizzy-marky. I'm debating upgrading the elite Riders... I've got 46 total, and am building a Galleon fleet. Sorry, SR, but I gotta take out the northwestern part of America, need the luxs. I will wait for Tanks or MA to roll over everyone.

I'm exporting like a madman... 14 different resources. What a pain to keep checking value. Need money, need money!!

[Theseus]

Just got Bach... makes my heart go pitter-patter.

[Catt]

Originally posted by Theseus

[. . . .]

90% of workers are automated... I just can;t deal with it otherwise.

England and France have Nationalism, I alone have MT. I'm skipping Nationalism, which I've never done before, and racing for Rep. Parts.... it's only 3 techs!!

[. . . .]

Theseus, I know the feeling. I didn't automate workers until all of my cities were connected via a rail line, and my capital, FP city, and IW city were fully RR'd. As soon as I had a transportation net between cities complete I ditched the micromanaging and automated everyone (pulling a few back to manual as needed) -- and I didn't even have the entire continent to manage at that point! I was certainly not going to manually RR every city radius.

I too had never before completely ignored Nationalism. I usually researched it or traded for it (always going for steam power as the first industrial tech). When Cleo wouldn't give it to me in our peace negotiations, I said "screw it" and went straight for RP, then Industrialization (US wonder) and then ToE. Never missed it for a second.

Catt