Minitourney III - Spoilers - Page 4

nbarclay · July 2, 2002, 22:53

I generally view researching Nationalism myself as a waste of time. I tend to follow George Washington's advice on foreign policy: avoid entangling foreign alliances. If I don't sign ROP's, I don't have to worry about defending my interior cities against a possible sneak attack, and if I don't sign MPPs, I don't have to worry about getting dragged into a war I don't want. Couple that with the fact that by the time my cities are finished building factories and back to building troops, I'll be ready to build infantry instead of riflemen, and Nationalism becomes pretty irrelevant.

That's not to say I NEVER sign ROPs or MPPs, and if I found myself fighting on the defensive around that time, riflemen could be really handy. But as long as the game is going well, I mainly just care about Nationalism as a step toward Communism for police stations.

Nathan

Chemical Ollie · July 3, 2002, 07:38

After I got modern armor, I declared war and erased the remnants Egypt in 2 turns. The Europeans had destroyed the Japanese and Egyptian outposts on the northern island, so when I took the whole home continent, Egypt was history. The Europeans were suddenly very angry at me.

I could not resist the temptation to sell modern tech, as Russia and Germany kept up and took other research paths than me. I got both fission, luxuries and 100+ gold per turn for one single tech! With the rate they were getting techs by their own research, I thought trading was a better option, as they would soon get it anyway. However, I kept the pathetic Americans in the dark, as their luxuries was my next war objective. They deserved to die anyway, as they stubbornly resisted to employ the metric system, thus was far behind in tech. I mean, how could you create any useful science if you still fool around with miles, gallons and pounds? No hard feelings, Catt

I tried Vel's 5-turn single transport invasion manouver, which did not really work in my game. I took New York on the first turn allright, but it took 3-4 turns before the resistance ended and I could rush an Airport. By then, they had pillaged and bombed all roads around my bridgehead, so the further onslaught was considerably slowed down. Despite this, I took Washington and two other cities on the tip of the western peninsula. The huge city size led to heavy losses and single veteran foot infantry could quite often kill elite MA, not to mention the MI the Yanks had on top of that. I have 10-15 stealth bombers, which seems immune to the Yank F-15, but I need more to wear down population and defender HP before attacking.

Washington culture flipped back to Yanks so next time I will raze it and use the slaves as landfill in construction of the cathedral in New York, alternatively as guinea pigs in my nuclear test lab.

I did a tiny "cheating" experiment at the last turn before I went to sleep last night. I have never used nukes myself, even if I have been on the wrong end of them a few times. I saved the game and nuked the Yanks to see if Russia and Germany would declare war. They did, even before the missile landed! I immediately closed the game without saving, so this little nuclear accident never happened.

More to come later

alexman · July 3, 2002, 11:38

Catt, I replied to your corruption question in the corruption thread so we don't take this one too much off-topic.

Txurce · July 4, 2002, 10:41

Speaking of nationalism and WW3 scenarios... I've been playing the German tourney game, which I missed. (The starting situation's relative difficulty intrigued me.) Although I know too much from your posts, I played it as honestly as possible. Anyway, both games I played with this start took me into the very WW3 scenario which we are discussing here.

In both games, a northern civ invaded with dozens of infantry, motorized and not.

My bacon was saved the first time only because nationalism allowed me to pump out MI, while a tactical nuke wiped out about 50 French infantry in one shot! Outraged declarations of war from the offshore folks and a mess to clean up after, but a very satisfying moment nonetheless. That said, it was very much like WW3, with much destruction and no real victor.

The second time around, the combination of Hoover's and the Golden Age made a huge difference in my panzer production and I had the iron works building armies, while threatening England and France were manipulated into beating each other up. The end game went the way most games do, with a crushing blitz victorious. Even here, however, I wasn't certain of the outcome until I actually attacked.

my first time through the Fren

Theseus · July 5, 2002, 01:00

After my Independence Day festivities, I've played through a little more.

I'm a little bored though... so I'm experimenting.

I 've mostly held true to the original theme; my only pre-modern intercontinental attack was on America, at the NW end of the other contintent. 2 luxuries, had to do it.

I waited until Tanks for further aggression, and now MA.

No great deeds to speak of; I'm just rolling over everyone.

It's too easy... I've got 100+ each MA and MI on the other continent, I've wiped out the initial American, French and Russian postions, and am now at a digestion pause before going after England. I'm beyond UP... it's as if Hitler went after Gandhi.

My new favorite buildings: Courthouse and Police Station. I am so far beyond the OCN and distance factor that the primary issue is getting past 1 shield of production.

It's weird... coming off the horrible German game (for me and Arrian at least), every game since has been a snap. I hope the new effort with Vel and others produces moe challenges.

Sidenote: For the new group effort, let's hold off on modern games until the new patch... I cannot WAIT for auto-bombard.

Catt · July 5, 2002, 01:46

Screenshots, dammit, we need screenshots, people.

Theseus · July 5, 2002, 02:09

I'll do that... it's 2am am for me dammit!!!

(I also didn't keep a log as I had planned, so that's loading SAV after SAV)

Thanks for the primer, tho'.

BTW, been watching you on CFC... it seems to me like Apolyton is more, I don't know, 'scientific.' I might be wrong though. Both your analytics and your game stories are quite good.

Catt · July 5, 2002, 02:35

I've almost given up on CivFanatics. The "General Discussions" draws a few interesting posters; certain Firaxians seem to visit frequently; I always search out Zachriel's posts (he's far more active there than here).

Poly's strategy forum is worthy of its name. CF's strategy forum is at the point where they ought to just chuck it and stick to "General."

Will look forward to your screenshots. Where is Nathan? Vel? Txurce? jshelr? I know Sir Ralph is tied up and I know Arrian has been playing the GoUP. But there's little chance I'll actually ever have the time to dowloand peoples' games at various points, load them, look at them, and still have time to play Civ3, talk about Civ3, play with my family, etc., etc.

Give us all some views -- a picture is worth a thousand words

.

Catt

Chemical Ollie · July 5, 2002, 06:38

Muahaha! I really like the idea of delivering the good news to American civilians with the help of stealth bombers. Especially on July 4...

The Yanks were down to 1 good city and some outposts when Bismark declared war when I didn't give in to his blackmail. Before I could even respond, all my American cities but the initial beachhead New York were razed. To my surprise, the Krauts sent a million MI and a few cavallery on the offensive but not a single Panzer or MA. They suffered tremendous casualties against my defending MI and MA, but with that massive onslaught, they eventually broke through and killed/captured all my stealth bombers and artillery plus denied me 2 luxuries (ouch!) I made an alliance and RoP with Russia which will keep the Krauts busy while I'm mobilising and building up a bigger assault force. This will also hopefully prevent the Ivans from turning on me when I nuke the Krauts to hell.

I have some boomer subs in position around the German coast plus a few ICBM, so they will pay a high price for their dirty deeds. But I will wait until I have flied over enough MA to take advantage of the nuking. Germany will be turned into a parking lot, and then I will build franchise springroll restaurants all over the place.

Or perhaps not, as I don't want to trigger domination vic. I have never won by conquest, so this will be my first (I don't see how I could lose now). I do not intend to keep more than the strategic wonder cities. Smith's is in London (German) but I don't remember about Sixstine. Is there a way to find out without using spies?

And sorry Catt, no screenshots as I am writing this at lunch break on my job, where the IT manager would kick my ass if I installed CIV3. Final game report expected before Sunday.

DeepO · July 5, 2002, 07:27

Quote:

Originally posted by Olaf Hårfagre
Smith's is in London (German) but I don't remember about Sixstine. Is there a way to find out without using spies?

Sure there is: hit F7, the wonders list. It will tell you where every wonder is / is being constructed.

DeepO

Txurce · July 5, 2002, 17:13

Catt, I'm away for the weekend and may not get a chance to post my screenshots, but those CFC Mac guys fine-tuned your advice, and I should be ready to go. I always enjoy others' images, and it's about time I contribute some of my own!

Harovan · July 6, 2002, 15:37

I'm back to the game. I used the industrial age to build up a killer economy. Everybody was polite, even the English, whom I attacked before, because they founded a city at my continent in ex Egypt. I had neglected this spot, because it was desert and completely corrupt. The Americans sneak attacked me, even abusing our RoP agreement. They took the 2 cities at the nortern island with cavalries. They were defended only with spearmen. I retook them quickly, made peace and Abe went polite again. Far from this event, the industrial age went unspectacular.

In the end of the industrial age I had targetted 3 American cities with luxuries and the city with Leo's, and I prepared the assault. I built a transport full of infantry and a transport full of artillery for each city. 2 transports full with tanks had the mission to hunt down wandering riflemen, longbowmen and cavalries and to raze 3 near cities (with artillery support), to prevent the beachhead from flipping. The war went quick, only 8 turns, I took the 3 cities, razed Washington and 2 other cities and rebuilt Washington. Then I made peace. My casualties were low, only 2 tanks.

Now I own a broad beachhead and a small one. I'm in the modern age, building military and airlifting it to the beachhead. I'll research Rocketry, Computers and Ecology, Recycling and Synthetic Fibers. After this, the showdown begins. I intend to try Aesons Recycling Blitz, it should work a charm under these circumstances.

Harovan · July 7, 2002, 10:55

The fun part of the game begins.

Location: Beachhead at the NW tip of the other continent
Time: 1758 AD, just discovered Recycling
Plan: 2 Armies kill America and proceed towards France and Russia

Catt · July 7, 2002, 14:26

Excellent screenshot Sir Ralph -- and look at all those paratroopers!

Theseus · July 7, 2002, 15:02

NICE!!!

And see how many Transports there are next to San Fran... how many Marines?? ( I right-clicked on the picture to find out... ha).

Buffalo as the nation's capitol... that's a hoot.

Harovan · July 7, 2002, 17:24

It's 16 Paratroopers and 16 Marines. Philadelphia fell the same turn (razed/rebuilt), Boston was taken by Tanks and the jar heads took San Francisco. Next turn the Paratroopers took Miami and St. Louis, and Tanks took Buffalo and Chicago. Abe had only 1 city left, a small oil city N of the screenshot. It fell 2 turns later to my brave Marine corps. Own casualties: 1 Tank, 1 Marine and 1 Paratrooper, because I met only Riflemen. Abe was poor, he lacked most of the resources. He didn't even have coal for railroads.

I used a short peace break to upgrade my Tanks to MA's and to replace my losses. Currently invading the French and Russian corelands. Aesons Recycling Blitz works very good. France has infantry and is a bit stronger than Russia, but both they are no match for my mighty army. Germany declared war, because they had a MPP with Russia. At the other side of the globe 6 Battleships and 4 Carriers bomb the sh!t out of Bismarck. I have Peace only with England. They are my fur supplier... erm, till I take Paris (has furs). After this, I'll pick on England as well. England is the strongest and most advanced AI civ. Strange, this rarely happens.

I'm about 250-300 tiles apart from domination victory. I don't know yet if I go for conquest. Also, I still am a Democracy. I plan to switch to Communism as soon as I discovered ICBMs.

Theseus · July 8, 2002, 00:54

Quote:

[SIZE=1] I plan to switch to Communism as soon as I discovered ICBMs.

Why?

I haven;t finished yet, but I plan to for a conquest victory, and I'm not gonna bother with England.

Oh, just had a fun idea: Fight a standing battle with England just to generate Gls for my spaceship!! No city-taking. We'll see. MAs just can;t be stopped though... issue for MP.

Theseus · July 8, 2002, 00:56

Sir Ralph, it looks like there are a lot more ships parked next to San Fran than enough for 32 troops. But since we can see the Transports on top, it can't be strong protection.

What's going on there?

Harovan · July 8, 2002, 02:49

Theseus, Space Race is off, you'll have trouble to build the ship

. And there are only 2 unprotected transports. The dashes you see are the marines at the ships.

Theseus · July 8, 2002, 08:17

Oops.

Harovan · July 9, 2002, 04:02

After more than half a year of intensive Civ3'ing, I finally have seen Him. I could not believe it first, but it was true. Undoubtly, He was it. The one and only Anti-Tank Spearman!

It was during the siege of Lyons. Hordes of Chinese Modern Armors were attacking the city. 3 veteran Infantries, 1 conscript Rifleman and 1 regular Musketeer were already killed. This was His hour. A brave regular Spearman took the fate of Lyons in his hands.

The colonel of the next veteran Modern Armor regiment grinned disrespectful. After the Army corps had blown so many good defenders, this must be the last defense line of the hated Frogs. Yawn, what a mess. He gave his troops the order to attack.

And it happened. Wave upon wave of Modern Armors hit the city and was exterminated by His Mighty Spear. With only the fourth part of his initial strength (1 hp) remaining, the colonel finally gave the order to retreat in shame. The Spearman took 1 hp damage.

What shall I say? Kudos to the brave Spearman. The ungraceful Frogs did not even promote Him to veterans. And the next Modern Armor regiment finally killed Him.

He is no more.

Chemical Ollie · July 9, 2002, 19:10

I thought I would be finished by now, but it took longer than expected. Those enemy MI in metropolis cities on hills are kinda hard to break, sometimes they even survive nukes and kill 5 MA before they finally die.

I'm too tired to write much details now, but I will post a few screenshots to show my progress.

A few turns before the last strong opponent (Ivan) was finished, the game crashed on me. After that, I have not had time to play, and it will take another week before I will.

Anyway, I used the RoP to position 2-3 MA on top of each Russian resource square. I also razed all German towns, except those with useful wonders, and pillaged all resources in no mans land except some luxuries that I colonised. As Russia had used all it's nukes on Germany and had no uranium within it's territory to build new ones, they declared war on me after trying to blackmail me for the uranium.

It took a while of stealth bombing, nuking and artillery shelling to break the bigger cities, but finally, Russia is down to only 8 cities up north. The 3-4 size cities could often be razed by a single MA if they were not on a hill. America is in a hateful peace with me and is rebuilding the razed land. However, they have no resources to build any strong units, as I have pillaged the whole continent. I am currently 4 turns away from my first future tech ever in CIV3 and perhaps 10 turns from my first ever conquest victory. Lets hope that I will be able to restore the chrashed game from autosave, otherwise I will have to replay 20-30 turns.

Chemical Ollie · July 9, 2002, 19:22

Look at the screenshot in my last post. Please note the pillaged resources and that my units are in safe distance from Ivan's cities so that I will not nuke them by accident. Friendly fire is not!

Please also note the boomer sub in position on top of the screen, with Moscow just at the far range of it's striking distance. There's another one outside the screen, targeting Petersburg.

Mow imagine the loud BOOOOOOMMMM of the nuclear impact and the roar of my MA rolling in. Below is the result. Moscow held Smith's so I kept it. Saved me roughly 200 gold per turn IIRC.

Theseus · July 9, 2002, 19:35

I can't believe Russia turned killer in your game Olaf... I don;t recall seeing that in any others, and in mine they had 3 cities for much of the game.

dawidge · July 9, 2002, 23:32

It took me a while, but I finally got a chance to tackle mini-III (the new jay-oh-bee is really cutting into my civ time).

Sorry, Catt, no screenshots attached. Somehow, Win2kpro+DirectX has frelled up alt-prntscrn such that it's an instant reboot.

4000 BC. What an absolutely beautiful starting spot. I set my tech to beeline for libraries and began exploring. The game unfolded to give me the same early advantage Vel got: the nearby goodie hut spawned a settler and throughout the ancient era I was able to develop as many cities as bot Egypt and Japan combined. Ohmigod, first-hut settlers are unbalancing to the development curve. Of course, so are first-hut barbarians, so I guess it kind of balances out over the long run.

I quickly meet the Japanese who have absolutely no interest in trading fairly, so...

3150 BC. First Sino-Japanese War. A warrior rush captures 3 Japanese workers (2 from a settler - ouch, I bet that hurt) and spends a few turns pounding their axes against the walls of Kyoto before Tokoguwa gives up his tech to appease us.

Between the Japanese tech and 3 different goodie huts yielding tech advances, I now have HBR and spot those horses SSW from Kyoto on the coast. I have already decided that Japan is going to be my ***** for the ancient era (I do not let them get to Samurai if I can possibly avoid it), so I earmark that spot as a) closer to me than those just west of center and b) less likely to get me into any early tussles with Egypt. Egypt will wait until *I* have the combat advantage. Pause in the warrior-warrior-settler cycle to build some barracks.

2190 BC. Start building up for an archer rush, but have to move quickly to fend off the stray barbarians.

1790 BC. Tokoguwa beats me in the race for that horsie SSW of Kyoto. I know exactly where those archers will go when they are ready. I plop a city nearby and start work on a temple. Maybe I can get a flip to rub salt in his wounds.

1500 BC. My much-vaunted archer army is pinned down fending off wave-after-wave of barbarian hordes. I start spreading them out to clear the fog and prevent the barbs from showing up in the first place. Unfortunately, this ties down a lot of units. Fortunately, I'm still cranking out settlers wenever I have the pop.

1100 BC. $@!#$%@*&%^@ Tsingtao flips to Japan before it can pop-rush a temple. The archer army converges on Chengdu to rally for the coming fight to liberate those loyal, but misguided, subjects of Mao.

875 BC. S-JW2 begins when Tokoguwa refuses to compensate me for Tsingtao. He will pay dearly for this.

730 BC. Peace breaks out when Tokoguwa decides to cut his losses after I've recaptured Tsingtao and taken Edo (horses) and Kyoto. I get all his tech, all his money, a worker, and a city way out on the eastern peninsula. Somewhere in the confusion, he slipped a settler over to the horses west of center. Now we each have a horse resource.

490 BC. Edo flips back to Japan (WTF!!!) and the buildup for S-JW3 begins. All of my warriors trade in their axes for swords and the industrial might of China is focused on the forge and sharpening wheel.

30 BC. Overwhelming forces are ready to pounce on Japan and the third and final Sino-Japanese War begins. I trade some tech to Egypt for an alliance against Japan to encourage them to trigger their GA. I certainly don't want them in a GA when I finally attack them. Just to butter them up, I give them that indefensible city out on the eastern peninsula (which still hasn't been able to build a defender and has at least one japanese horse in sight). They are very, very happy with me.

150 AD. Egypt makes its only conquest of the game and triggers their golden age.

380 AD. R.I.P. Tokoguwa 4000 BC - 380 AD. I have more than adequate troops to defend my cities and all the free space on the continent is taken up, so I shift from feckless warmonger to enlightened builder. I go for libraries, markets, and temples in that order and beeline for Chivalry.

700 AD. Chinese scientists seal the fate of Egypt when they discover Chivalry. My 6-8 horses are rapidly converted to riders and moved into position. Every Chinese city stops what it is doing to build the glorious swarms of riders.

770 AD. It's the dawn of a golden age as my riders swoop down upon the Egyptian city of Giza accomplishing the first goal of the war vs. Egypt: capturing the city in the exact center of the continent (between the lone mountain and the lake smack dab in the center of the land mass). We have eight goals in this offensive:
1) Capture Giza
2) generate a GL to rush the FP in Giza. - 870 AD
3) generate a GL to build an army, so I can start building HE (no hero necessary to rush it, but I'll want HE later, and it will have a huge impact on the game). - 890 AD
4) capture all horse resources. - 890 AD
5) capture all luxuries, including Thebes. - 920 AD
6) capture any Egyptian wonder(s) (only one is Sun Tzu in Thebes).
7) force the Egyptian capitol to bounce over to the eastern tip of the continent. - 920 AD
8) wring Egypt for all its tech in the peace treaty. - 950 AD.

All in all, a very productive war. Egypt lost exactly half of their 22 cities with 10 captures and 1 razing (keyboard slipped). I inherited reasonably well-developed cities as well as a number of industrious slaves.

The icing on the cake, and what prompted me to push for a quick end to the war, was that in 900 AD a little pink splotch appeared on the map. The French founded the city of Amiens at the northwestern tip of the continent. In my mind, I modified goal 8 to include "and world map and any contacts they've acquired", but contacts never showed up, even though Egyptian cities
were *very* close to Amiens. I spent my entire GA building riders and stagnating in tech (I wouldn't have gotten much further than the two techs liberated from Egypt, anyway, and I collected *huge* sums of money).

960 AD. A lone rider dashes through Egyptians farmlands to meet the frogs touching off a cascade chain of trading "contact w/Egypt" and a World Map for at least a contact, WM, and tech (sometimes two).

During twenty turns of peace and prosperity, I've built up my
infrastructure, with markets, temples, libraries, and banks scattered throughout old China. The tech trading in 960 put me at tech parity with all of "europe" and the huge sums of cash are bankrolling negative cash-flow 4-turn tech research.

1160 AD. Now that my reputation won't take a hit for erasing the Egyptians (my long-range plans for the continental landing involve ROP/MPP and I don't want my reputation to take a hit), the second Sino-Egyptian war begins.

Riders augmented by Cavalry eliminate them by 1230. China now controls all of "Asia" except for Amiens. I know exactly who my first target will be. Asia will be purified and if I have to conquer all of Europe in the process, so be it.

1330 AD. I am the first to enter the Industrial Age. Steam Power is shared all around and fills in all the medieval age techs I'm missing, including Democracy. I make the switch to demo and watch my super-duper workers lay rails.

1600 AD. I enter the modern age with a strong tech lead over everyone. I'm building tanks and transports like crazy and research is focused on MA (Rocketry-Ecology-Synthetic Parts).

1685 AD. Five transports brimming with 40 veteran MA depart the eastern peninsula destined for the French coast (which abuts American waters. No defensive units accompany the transports.

1695 AD. I negotiate a ROP/MPP with Abe and land all 40 troops next to Miami (the same place on the map that Sir Ralph landed). Those coastal mountains NW of the city are French, but Jean has sentries posted. It'll cost me an extra move/attack to swing in from America, but I'm glad I have the MPP/ROP to simplify things.

1700 AD. MA swoop down on two french cities, with the critically injured ones getting burned to rush airports next turn. Losing a few tanks now will pay off immediately. Everyone else cleans up the stray forces within my boundaries and moves in to secure them against flips. Two MA in Asia sieze Amiens.

Here is the political situation at the start of 1700:
China MPP America
France MPP Germany
Germany MPP America
During the sequence of turns in 1700,
I attack France, Germany declares against me.
I ally with England against France. England atacks France. Germany declares against England. England attacks Germany. America declares against England. England attacks America, I declare against England.

The only wild cards are Germany and Russia. I cannot attack Germany first, or America will throw in against me, so I wait them out. Russia is insignificant with only two cities remaining from a long series of wars with America.

By 1710 AD, I've taken eight of France's 16 cities and my two airports on the continent are receiving 27 MA/turn.

In 1715 AD, a French SOD (40-45 Infantry, riflemen, and musketeers) appear out of the American countryside and threaten one of my new captures (Lyons) from a hilltop. The ensuing battle results in an obscene number of promotions to Elite and two GLs. The first GL went to bounce my palace to Besancon (slightly off-center to the west, just north of the ountains ENE of Miami). The second produced SETI. Carefully sequester those Elite units in a place where I won't confuse them with untriggered Elites. Enough tanks are leftover to reduce France to 3 cities on the continent and 1 colony on the N island. A huge percentage of my strike force needs to rest and recover hit points

1720 AD. Germany *finally* attacks me, parking a 50 unit SOD (infantry, rifles, and longbows) next to one of the 1715 captures. America declares on my side and picks off German border units everywhere. The Germans also drag the Russians into it, and America and I split their two cities. Between the units recuperating from the French SOD and the units deflated by taking out the German SOD, I can only send a dozen troops into the Ardennes to position themselves to strike at the remaining French continental cities. A transport of 8 MA is headed for the N island. I am also able to seize 3 English cities (including London and HG(useless, of course)), 3 German cities (including Berlin and LW). The various engagements generate another three GLs, which all go to army generation loaded with the units which have already triggered GLs. When the turn passes to Germany, they politely request a peace treaty, which, of course, is sternly refused.

By the time 1745 rolls around, I have 165 MA in "Europe" and only Abe and I are on the continent. Russia, Germany, and France are eliminated, while England has been reduced to two colonies on S island (shared w/2 American colonies). Abe has netted exactly 1 city in the entire war, and that came at the expense of the Russians. There are 10 turns remaining in our treaties.

Klytus, I'm bored...

In 1750, I decide that the only point in letting America live is that they might (although I doubt it) polish off England. I decide to abuse the ROP and carefully position 5-8 (sometimes + army) adjacent to each and every one of his cities except three colonial cities. By the end of 1750, There is no trace of America on the continent, not even their stupid spear-defended iron outpost and I am able to park more than enough defenders to prevent a flip
in each city.

1752 AD. Mao the Magnificent wins a Domination victory with a score of 4181.

I missed a conquest by 5 cities. I may load up one of the saves to see what my score would have been if I'd decided to send a couple transports to S island and better time my troop movements on N island to sweep through all of America in one turn.

Catt · July 10, 2002, 02:26

Great summary (even without the screenshots). Interesting that France was a powerful civ in your game (in mine, Joan was OCCing it in the 600s AD; in Olaf's the Russian's were dominant).

Very ambitious goals for the first Egyptian campaign -- and the goals were exceeded! It seems that several of us focused on causing Cleo to burn her GA in what we thought was an unproductive way -- a powerful strat against the AI (but I fear would be much harder against a human player in MP

).

Although I didn't call it out in my summary, I also burn my severly damaged modern armor / tanks as disband units to rush improvements in captured cities (I assume others do as well?) -- even with a surviving barracks in the captured city, a rushed improvement or two definitely pays off in the long run over preserving an MA for a couple of turns before its utility returns.

Good stuff!

Catt

Harovan · July 10, 2002, 03:57

Quote:

Originally posted by Theseus
I can't believe Russia turned killer in your game Olaf... I don;t recall seeing that in any others, and in mine they had 3 cities for much of the game.

In my game, Russia is pitiful poor and backwards. The best AI civ (won't call it Killer AI though) is England, which is also pretty rare. I expected the industrious civs to be better, but Abe and Joan remained mediocre. Germany is astoundingly weak in the game, Berlin was multiple times captured and retaken. Finally, I took it from the French.

Chemical Ollie · July 10, 2002, 06:19

Quote:

Originally posted by Theseus
I can't believe Russia turned killer in your game Olaf... I don;t recall seeing that in any others, and in mine they had 3 cities for much of the game.

Actually, the Krauts were the killers after the fall of Egypt. Ivan was strong but always a few steps behind. America was in third place on their continent but was still hard to break with their MI in metropolis cities. Costed me 20-30 lost MA to take them.

Then the Krauts backstabbed me and razed all my American cities but New York before I even got the chance to respond. An alliance and RoP with Ivan saved the day and Germany was history. The RoP allowed me to prepare for the inevitable Russian war, which broke out when I denied them uranium.

dawidge · July 10, 2002, 18:49

Quote:

Originally posted by Catt
Great summary (even without the screenshots). Interesting that France was a powerful civ in your game (in mine, Joan was OCCing it in the 600s AD; in Olaf's the Russian's were dominant).

I wouldn't call them "powerful". The Americans and Germans were the closest thing to having any power on the second continent, and they were at least 5 techs behind me and shelling out 74-100gpt each for the few techs I deigned to sell them, completely stunting their own tech development. The French were behind them in tech but square in my sights due to having a city on MY continent.

The final war could have gone much differently, as well. As it was, I was able to trade 3-4 luxuries with America throughout the war for the low cost of 2 lux + 1 tech (I forget which) and they threw in 100 gpt to sweeten the deal. If I hadn't paid attention to how the MPP web was constructed, I might have foolish attacked Germany before they crossed into my territory and had to fight Abe much sooner. If I hadn't gotten the initial MPP/ROP w/Abe, my initial thrust into France would not have been nearly as successful and might have made an enemy of America from the start. As it was, I eliminated everybody else from contention, then went through Abe like grass through a goose. He literally never knew what hit him.

Quote:

Very ambitious goals for the first Egyptian campaign -- and the goals were exceeded! It seems that several of us focused on causing Cleo to burn her GA in what we thought was an unproductive way -- a powerful strat against the AI (but I fear would be much harder against a human player in MP

).

It wasn't so much unproductive as not used to directly harm me. In my game, Cleo led tech on our continent until I forced it out of them. It could have gone very differently if she had bothered to make first contact with the French. If she had, I'd've been forced to negotiate for the contacts and tech with hefty gpt deals rather than simply cascade through all of them dishing out cw/E and Wmap for a contact and tech. My map was insanely valuable to all of them.

I don't remember if I mentioned it, but I was amused that several of us, including me, bought embassies right away rather than give them info on Beijing (not that it matters to the AI. but it's the principle...). I didn't build a single GW until Universal Suffrage (missed Bach by 6-8 turns and dumped it into a SW, probably HE). I didn't allow a single GW to slip away after missing out on JSB and ASTC.

I ended the game with only 4 modern techs. I decided halfway through Fission that I'd never get any use out making it to Nuclear Power and building Nuclear Power Plants. Noone else made it to the Modern Age and the only reason Abe made it as far as MotorTrans is because I gave it to him.

Theseus · July 11, 2002, 00:34

dawidge, that rocked. I would have never thought of going after France first, at least the way my game played out. I don't recall Joan having any especially great land or resources... what was your logic?

Does anyone have a CLUE why the other continent could turn out so differently across the various games??!! The only things I can think of are the RNG seed and Great Wonders.