Invasion tactics

[Barfus]

specifically, i would like a tactic someone has for invading a neighboring country. see, ive seen many tactics for "d-day", but not one for when you inhabit the same landmass, and have a border equivalent to the US Canada border. also consider that you may be sandwiched between two civs, with looooooooooooong continuous borders. i was thinking something along the lines of having a stalwart defense, let the civ bash his head on it a few times, then rush out and taske cities. but im guessing hell switch to unit production too fast and just end up swallowing me. the only other solution i can think of is piece meal conquest over several centuries in separate wars. suggestions?

[geofelt]

If you have the tech and strategic resources to build a unit with retreat capabilities that has enough strength to damage defenders, then build up an army of vet units. Don't attack until you have enough fast units to take several cities. Hopefully your core cities can keep up with replacements and defenders so that you can take the whole civ.

[Theseus]

Helluva topic.

Quick answer: Judo.

Welcome enemy forces into your territory, but make sure they are funneled into killzones. Keep the high ground.

Soften with Bounce (i.e., arty). Kill them.

Say goodnight to the women and children... let the games begin.

[Nakar Gabab]

I like to take one city intact (i.e. still a metropolis) if at all possible, and dump MASSIVE quantities of defensive troops into it. I mean enough to prevent a flip no matter what. Then fortify and watch them toss everything at you, whilst they annihilate their own terrain improvements. Then attack using that city as a base.

EDIT: This works best for overseas invasions, since they'll often attack other cities if you share borders. Best advice: Fortify that entire front. If they use fast troops, fortify lots of defenders. Slow troops, use lots of attackers when they're one square away - usually it works out in your favor.

And for the love of God, KEEP WORKERS OUT OF THE AREA. They'll be captured and disbanded if the AI even thinks it has a prayer of getting them.

[spy14]

1) Fortify extra defensive units in your current front line

2) Build as many fast offensive units as is possible in the circumstances

3) Attack the front line of cities, hold as many as poss, reassess the situation

4) If the resources are available advance further, if not hold what you have for a few turns and sue for peace. Dont overstretch your forces.

5) Build up forces again, repeat

[Harovan]

You need lots of forces if you have a long border. Place defenders along your border, if possible at high ground. Place stacks of attackers in the direction of enemy cities to capture, big enough to take the city. About 6-8 tanks should be fine. Declare war, soften the cities with bombers and artillery and and attack the cities, one by one. Quickly take the war on enemy territory. After you took the cities, move the defenders forth and form a new line. Try to hide injured units on a defended square. Repeat while you are strong enough. Then make peace for 20 turns. Repeat.

[zulu9812]

try and attack in mass at one point of the border - that way you can punch through easily and then swing round to take the rest of the cities. It's a tactic referred to as the Oblique Line

[planetfall]

Originally posted by Barfus
specifically, i would like a tactic someone has for invading a neighboring country. see, ive seen many tactics for "d-day", but not one for when you inhabit the same landmass, and have a border equivalent to the US Canada border. also consider that you may be sandwiched between two civs, with looooooooooooong continuous borders. suggestions?

Post your SAV file as THMicroGame, ala DDay challenge. For more info see:
http://apolyton.net/forums/showthrea...threadid=53996

[Arrian]

It totally depends on the tech level. In other words, are Cavalry available yet? If so, are riflemen? Are infantry? Are Tanks?

Example 1: You have Cavalry, no one has riflemen yet. My proposal: build a ton of Cavalry, and blitz the enemy with everything you've got. They won't last long.

Example 2: You have Cav, so do they and everyone has Riflemen too. Hmm. Well, in this case you're gonna need to bring along stacks of troops and move more deliberately. Use cannon to soften troops in the field and kill civilians (err, knock off pop points to lower the defensive bonus of cities). Bring lots of riflemen along with your Cav (still a 2 to 1 ratio, Cav to Rifle) to protect them and hold captured cities.

Example 3: Cavalry vs. Infantry. Avoid war. If you end up in one, use your infantry to funnel the AI onto flat ground, where you pummel them with artillery and finish with Cavalry. Remain in defensive posture until you can get your hands on Tanks.

Example 4: Tanks vs. Infantry. Build lots of Tanks, some arty, some infantry. Attack and capture a line of AI cities with the Tanks, move the arty and infantry in to defend. Weather the AI counterattack and then finish them with an all-out Tank blitz.

The keys:

If you have a superior offensive unit (Cavalry vs. Musketmen or even Riflemen if you have many, Tanks vs. Infantry), keep the initiative! Attack, take cities, force the AI to respond to that. Slaughter their counterattack and proceed. If you DO NOT have a superior offensive unit (the lull between infantry and tanks, or between mech inf. and modern armor), go heavy on the footsloggers and artillery, and concentrate on killing lots of AI units while losing very few of your own. Basically, a war of atrition that you will win handily.... while waiting for that superior offensive unit to come around.

-Arrian

[jshelr]

Sound advice from all concerned.

One more thing. Depending on what you want to accomplish and your relative troop strength, it's a good idea to bribe for alliances. For one thing, once other civs are locked onto your side, your target civ can't bargain to bring them in against you. For another, you can sometimes pounce, get that strategic resource you need, and then sit back while other civs pound on each other. The game is set up to favour defense, with the exception of windows of opportunity when you have a tech edge bringing you new fast troops. So, use diplomacy to avoid depending solely on firepower.

[Velociryx]

The single biggest and best thing you can do when faced with an enemy who wants to go a few rounds with you is to play terrain games.

Regardless of your situation, you KNOW (at least in general terms, and wise is the player who knows in *specific* terms) where your enemy is, you KNOW where he'll be coming from, and you KNOW what cities you have that are prime targets thanks to their proximity.

If your enemy is significantly stronger in terms of total combat units available, then defending at the city gates is touch and go (this, due to the simplified nature of combat in the game, which puts an undue emphasis on QUANTITY of units, rather than their quality), and generally NOT a good idea, even with city defense bonuses, therefore, the next best thing is to use every trick in the terrain-lover's handbook to make it work to your favor.

Fortify thorny bits of terrain, preferably ones that force your opponent to attack you from the far side of a river. Camp out there with the best defenders you've got, and keep them (the forts) staffed!).

When facing superior numbers, make use of your own terrain as a staging area and killing ground, as has been mentioned. You can do this, even with a significantly smaller army if you have built a good Military Road Network. Your best defenders holed up on terrain that is *entirely* favorable to you, backed up by your attack-troops killing the bad guys as they flail around hopelessly in your territory (while your troops move like greased lightning in comparison), will deliver a one-two punch that'll knock out an army several times larger than your own force.

-=Vel=-

[Theseus]

Vel Tzu

[Barfus]

good suggestions. however, i have found that 3-6 mod armor WILL NOT do the trick against a city full of mech inf. as a matter of fact, i saved my gamne and attacked to see what would happen. i, as well as the ai (india) have total railroad coverage, so movement is very quick. i had every inch of terrain fortified by mech infantry that shares border with india. grand total of mech inf on the border and in cities is 300+. i had about 89 modern armor or something like that, and basically wasnt able to take more than one or two cities first turn. and i even did it the sneaky way: beginning of turn create a RoP with them, move in for free, then start attacking with bombers arty and armor. i even have spies to tell me there troops amounts and so forth. those mech inf just dont give up. in any event, the war bogged down to my mechs creating a funnel of my allies troops into india, which is decimated quite well now, but it wasnt the way i wanted to win. almost every stinking one of my units was defeated, the modern armor that is. 89 units blasted by mech inf holding cities. crazy.....

btw, ALL my mech inf fortified at the border are fortified in fortresses, and yes...that took FOOOORRREEEVVVEEERRR to do.

[Barfus]

im thinking the best way might be to lay some sort of impenetrable piece of bait in the center of their empire, and let them keep hitting it until they kill a good chunk of their armies, then begin my assault.

[Tim_Hobbit]

My last game I had a lot of success with modern armor against mechinfantry! Then it was supported by several stacks of 50+ radar artillery and the about half the modern armor was in the 14 (4 unit) Armies I was fielding at the time. It was a fun modern age!

[Barfus]

those armies might just be the key. as its a peaceful game thus far, i havent producced but one leader who was gone instantly.

[Tim_Hobbit]

I used to always use my 1st GL or two for Wonders, but have discovered in the last couple of games that building an army has some advantages.
1 - a successful attack by an army allows you to build the two military wonders, that allow more promotions, and to build more armies.
2 - more armies and better promotions = more chance of GLs, which can be used to build Wonders.
3 - build enough armies, ( and you don't even have to attack with them) and you can get the pentigon which will enlarge all the armies to 4 units.

An early army of 3 or 4 spearmen or pikemen on a fortified mountain or better yet a hilltop town with a barracks and distroy litterally hundereds of attacking horsmen or swordsmen. You don't even want to know what a 4 unit army of Mortorized Infantry can withstand in the same position!

[Barfus]

anyone have a quick tactic or a sure fire way to produce a leader? especially early in the game....around pikemans era. i cant seem to get one to save my life. i keep attacking the zulu in the hopes of getting one but to no avail.

[Theseus]

Overall comments:

Attack with large stacks. Start with your least experienced units, and don;t worry if you lose and give the enemy a promotion.

Try to preserve elites... use them to attack weak defenders, preferably in the field, with 3 hps or less.

Try to keep elites closer to home, so GLs can make it back.

When you don;t need a GL, don;t use your elites; try to get all vets promoted.

Get elite+leaders out of the way.

If possible, get an Army and the Heroic Epic ASAP. Don;t use the Army for much but that first win.

[Coracle]

Always have workers ready to rebuild pillaged roads, and have a settler ready to start a new town if one has to be razed or if there is a large distance between your nearest town or city and the enemy town you are attacking so you can have a place for units to heal.

[Barfus]

thanks...large stacks.....right now im on an island and its proving difficult to wage war from that distance...

[Arrian]

Barfus,

GL generation is all about playing the odds. Militaristic civs have the advantage in that they get more (non-leader producing) promotions, which means more elites. More elites = more elite victories = more leaders.... or at least a better chance of leader generation.

Like Theseus said, be careful with those elite units. I usually try to use them as "finishers." They hit beat up units. When I have a leader active (rarely for more than a turn) I attack only with vets in order to get them promoted. The overall key, though, is to do lots of fighting with lots of units.

I'm playing a Chinese game now (no, not mini tourneyiii - which I will get at some point) which I began with an archer strike against England. I took London, and then positioned my 1 elite archer with a spearman defender near their other city. Every couple of turns they'd pop out an archer, which my archer would kill. Sure enough, he generated a GL, which became an army of achers. Since then, I have destroyed the Indians, Japanese, English (they had 4 cities, heh), French, and a goodly portion of America. I'm building Hoover while still a Monarchy (hey, tech in 4 turns with a surplus, people happy, army huge... why switch?). I'm up to my 8th leader.

#1 - army (archers)
#2 - FP
#3 - Sistine
#4 - move Palace
#5 - Adam Smith
#6 - Bach
#7 - army (Cavalry)
#8 - ToE

And counting. I am methodically laying waste to America, and preparing to wheel on the Iroquois (they're my only opponents at this point). I'm just razing away.

I never used to build an army with my first leader, because I didn't feel it was worth the trade (1 leader early on for a couple more later). But that was when I was utilizing horse/sword rushes around 400bc as my first assault. As China, starting with archers right off the bat, it makes more sense. When I began my horse/sword rush, I had the Heroic Epic built. Clearly, it paid off.

Theseus,

I think I have found Ultimate Power (tm)! Seriously, this game is nuts. The cool part is that I remembered to save it periodically (I have 7 different saves) so one can actually follow how it developed.

-Arrian

[Theseus]

Nice trick with the archer... I'll be using that.

Mini-III will be UP too.

/wild boasting on

I plan to take over the entire world in one move when I get to Synthetic Fibers.

wild boasting off/

[Artifex]

Tag for future reference

[Theseus]

I hoped no one would remember that!!

I just got to that point tonight, I think. I'm a little bored with it though, and don;t know if I have the patience.

There are 39 cities to take on the main continent, where I have 117 MA, appr. 50+ MI, and 23 Cav. There are another 7 cities on 2 islands. I've got lots of Bombers and Arty too, all on the main continent.

Uggh... I'd rather play new games.

Funny... the first 10-15 games I played, I never went past Cavs or maybe Tanks, because I reached UP (tm), more or less. I've know actually gotten in to the later stages, but there's a point where it's foregone.

My guess is I'm gonna put this one away, but save it for after a humiliating defeat... ego repair.

[Tingkai]

A basic strategy is to wear down the AI units by attacking them where you have the advantage or by forcing them to attack you when you have favourable ground.

One thing I notice with the AI is that it likes to attack with dozens of units in one stack. If that happens I usually try to surround it if I can get a terrain bonus effect (i.e. mountains).

In the game I'm playing now the Iroquois launched a three pronged attack with three stacks. All three stacks came through mountainous areas. I surrounded the stacks and then sat back while they tried to batter their way out of the encirclement.

The only attack I make on the encircled troops is with artillery. Wear them down.

Meanwhile, my offensive units go for cities that can be hit with artillery from my territory.

An alternative strategy is to surround them, but leave one escape route open that goes onto open ground.

[Tingkai]

Originally posted by Coracle
have a settler ready to start a new town if one has to be razed or if there is a large distance between your nearest town or city and the enemy town you are attacking so you can have a place for units to heal.

Good point. The latest version makes this even easier. You can take an enemy town, move a settler into it, then abandon the enemy town and start up your own town.

[King of Rasslin]

I would wait for nukes if I was going to attack a city of size 13+ defended by mech infantry. Mass artillery might lower it down, but I like using the nuke to weaken the mech infantry.

You will lose a lot of modern armor to mech infantry because they cannot retreat. I would simply attack if the city is less than size 7. If it is size 7-12, you should use artillery or radar artillery. If it is 13+, be ready for a long siege or a nuke.

To protect elite modern armor, which are the first ones to get hit, send mech infantry along with them. You don't need to do this if you can attack their cities in a single turn, but you usually need to send the mech infantry in.

And there is no point to trying to blitz an AI with mech infantry. It is impossible to get modern armor before they get mech infantry in higher difficulties, so don't try it. Just move slowly and try not to lose too many guys.

[Solver]

I have been into this. I was on the same landmass with babylon, a very powerful civ with an army besting that of mine. It was in late Industrial Age, with Marines available, but not Tanks yet (I went for Marines first). Marines are powerful in my mod. babylon had 150 Infantry to my a-bit-over-100, but I had Marines, and more Cavalry. Along the border, Fortresses fortified with Infantry were present. Map: a continent with me occupying the eastern part, Babylon the Western part, and it also had 2 cities in the Easter part.

I declared war on Babylon, and strted off with just bombing their near-border squares. Their turn, I saw them lose some units to my fortifications, and approaching a nice stack of like 50 Infantry to the edge of their border. I responded by ordering the 10 Marines I had then to attack the Infantry stack, and killed 8.

I moved like half of my Infantry into Babylonian borders, with the aim of denying resources. My bombers started targeting cities. Then, for a nice time, it was a stalemate situation. Infantry, Cavalry and some Marines were combatting en masse, I have mobilized my economy to compensate the numeric advantage of Babylon, and was putting lots of Marines and Infantry out.

My fleet got mobilized, and a raw of Destroyers, as well as my first 2 Battleships moved on to bombarding the Babylonian positions from behind, concentrating on one coastal city at a time, and causing some mayhem. Babylon launched a surprise attack by sending troops to my poorly defended cities in the East, gaining more control of the Easter part of the continet. I put some Infantry on nearby mountains, hoping to stall their advance towards the heart of the continet, which I managed to.

Again, we kept producting troops, exchanging artillery fire, and taking each other on in the field. What decided this was was basically one turn. I saw babylon move a giant stack towards the border, and one tile inside my land. I took most of my artillery and bombarded the stack, weakening some units. Then Bombers came in and killed a few units (Bombers got lethal on for me). And the moment came... my Marines all engaged the stack, I had serious losses, but more wins (as I say, Marines are boosted). This turn left many of the Babylonian army dead, so I started to gain advantage in numbers.

Next, I needed to cut their Rubber off, intelligence told they have 3 sources of it. Two sources I somehow managed to dispatch with Bombers and Cavalry raids in the area, but one remained in the Eastern cities of Babylon. But that part of the continent was very well suited for defensive positions, so it was a hard fight. But eventually, I razed the city founded on the last Rubber square for Babylon, though with heavy losses.

Hammurabbi was forced to resort to Riflemen and Cavalry, while I have just acquired Tanks. The first Tanks on the battlefield clearly showed themselves as the new dominating power, so I was very pleased to wipe Babylon off.

Got to be my favorite story thus far .