American position on the PA - Page 9

CyberGnu · June 28, 2002, 06:01

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So Gnu, aren't you a little ashamed of posting unbased unsourced opinions? Kinda like the Israeli press, don't you think?

Not at all. As long as I don't try to claim these opinions as facts.

Can I be trusted? Of course not. If I claim anything as a fact, you can ask me for a source. If I can't/wont provide proof, you can assume what I'm claiming is untrue.

CyberGnu · June 28, 2002, 06:05

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Please explain to me, how the murder of children in examples 8,9 and 11 , is

a) NOT"deliberate"
b) a mistake

a = b...

8: Bomber aiming for a bus, not 'a bus filled with children'. Children happened to be on the bus.

9 & 11: Shooter intended to kill occupying family. Shooter under fire. Shoots on anything that moves. Even happens to policemen in the US.

CyberGnu · June 28, 2002, 06:08

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Sending children to school on a bus is "putting them in harms way"? You're sick, very sick.

Allowing kids to live in a country that is occupying another is putting them in harms way. Regardless of whether they are on the bus.

Their parents value greed more than the lives of their kids. They are sick, very sick. and you are defending that... Which would make you sick indeed. Tell me, if you ever have kids, what will you sell them for? Land? Money?

CyberGnu · June 28, 2002, 06:09

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http://www.guardian.co.uk/Archive/A...4183407,00.html

OK, so if we can find the ones who did that we should string them up in a tree...

CyberGnu · June 28, 2002, 06:10

Well, I'm off to bed.

Have a good night.

Eli · June 28, 2002, 06:10

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Originally posted by CyberGnu
Eli:

Yes, I'm secretly controlling the IDF and force them to kill palestinians.

I'm sure your reading comprehension level is not that low...

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Your self-delusion is admirable. Just a question, since your grasp on reality is so thin, why don't you try imagine yourself surrounded with naked women or something? Would make more sense to create an illusion that is pleasurable, one would think. Of course, your fantasies might be psychotic in nature, and thus out of your control.... I hope your parents keep sharp objeccts away from you.

MWAHAAAANYANYANAYN!! DEATHHH!!!! KILL ALL PALESTINIANS!!! MURDER! KILL! DEATH DEATH DEATH! OOOHHHHH, I MUST SEE BODIES, BODIES, DEAD PALESTINAN CHILDERN. MORE! GIVE ME MORE! KILL KILL KILL!

Eli · June 28, 2002, 06:11

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Originally posted by CyberGnu
9 & 11: Shooter intended to kill occupying family. Shooter under fire. Shoots on anything that moves. Even happens to policemen in the US.

"Shooter intended to kill occupying family. "

Well? Therefore, he intended to kill the children too. Doh.

"Shooter under fire."

Source?

"Even happens to policemen in the US."

Source?

CyberGnu · June 28, 2002, 06:11

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Yes, I'm secretly controlling the IDF and force them to kill palestinians.

I'm sure your reading comprehension level is not that low...

?

Quote:

MWAHAAAANYANYANAYN!! DEATHHH!!!! KILL ALL PALESTINIANS!!! MURDER! KILL! DEATH DEATH DEATH! OOOHHHHH, I MUST SEE BODIES, BODIES, DEAD PALESTINAN CHILDERN. MORE! GIVE ME MORE! KILL KILL KILL!

Talking to Sharon?

The Mad Monk · June 28, 2002, 06:11

Quote:

Originally posted by CyberGnu

a = b...

8: Bomber aiming for a bus, not 'a bus filled with children'. Children happened to be on the bus.

9 & 11: Shooter intended to kill occupying family. Shooter under fire. Shoots on anything that moves. Even happens to policemen in the US.

Please explain how "intended to kill occupying family" does not infer deliberately targeting children.

GeneralTacticus · June 28, 2002, 06:14

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Not the point. You are claiming that Israeli soldiers must occpuy palestine since palestine carries out attacks on Israel. But it is flawed logic, since the occupation is CAUSING the attacks.

How other arabs attacked in 1948 has nothing to do with terrorist attacks.

The Arabs attacked in 1948 to destroy Israel.

They lost.

In between the major wars, they have been continuously launching terrorist attacks against Israel. As there was no occupation then, you cannot claim that the occupation is causing the terrorism.

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Entering the house: well, one could assume that not only kids live in the house, don't you think? In fact, one could even assume that there is a larger propability of there being adults in the house than there being children. So the attack was aimed at adults, and children were the victims. Victims of Sharons greed.

Do you really think it's that hard to see whether the person in a bed is a child or an adult?

CyberGnu · June 28, 2002, 06:14

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Well? Therefore, he intended to kill the children too. Doh.

No. If you are going to reply to posts to other people, you should read the entire thread.

The Mad Monk · June 28, 2002, 06:19

I read the entire thread. Would you care to answer my request?

Eli · June 28, 2002, 06:21

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Originally posted by CyberGnu

No. If you are going to reply to posts to other people, you should read the entire thread.

I read the entire thread. Dont forget the two sources I asked for.

GeneralTacticus · June 28, 2002, 06:22

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Wasn't he under fire when this happened? I'd say that a person under fire is not capable of acting 100% rationally.

We could apply the same logic to IDF soldiers. But since you will refuse to consider granting this excuse to anyone you deem to be unworthy, we won't.

CyberGnu · June 28, 2002, 06:27

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"Even happens to policemen in the US."

Source?

http://www.hartfordadvocate.com/articles/copshoot.html

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"Shooter under fire."

Source?

Ask Siro. I've been asking for two hours.

CyberGnu · June 28, 2002, 06:30

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Please explain how "intended to kill occupying family" does not infer deliberately targeting children.

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I read the entire thread. Would you care to answer my request?

read again.

Of course, it made me waste five minutes of my life looking it up...

28-06-2002 04:02

CyberGnu · June 28, 2002, 06:31

Eli:

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I read the entire thread. Dont forget the two sources I asked for.

So I'm assuming that the low reading comprehension level you mentioned referred to yourself?

Eli · June 28, 2002, 06:31

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Ask Siro. I've been asking for two hours.

You were asking him about certain terracts. I want to know if the terrorist was really under fire when he first entered the house and started killing everyone.

CyberGnu · June 28, 2002, 06:33

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We could apply the same logic to IDF soldiers. But since you will refuse to consider granting this excuse to anyone you deem to be unworthy, we won't.

Actually, we can apply this to an individual IDF soldier. Which is why I think we should out Sharon in front of the firing squad, not the IDF soldier in the front ranks.

Sharon is responsible for every single death in the ME conflict. Sharon, and the people who voted him to power.

CyberGnu · June 28, 2002, 06:37

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You were asking him about certain terracts. I want to know if the terrorist was really under fire when he first entered the house and started killing everyone.

How the hell would I know? As long as Siro won't give me a source for the incident, I don't even know if it happened.

and if you actually read what I posted, you'll see that I aksed siro if the shooter was under fire at the time. Jesus Christ, is the difference between a question and a statement really that complicated?

CyberGnu · June 28, 2002, 06:38

Either way, I'm going to bed.

Please don't kill any more children tonight.

GeneralTacticus · June 28, 2002, 06:39

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Sharon is responsible for every single death in the ME conflict. Sharon, and the people who voted him to power.

Why not the people who actually do the killing? AFAIK, there is no punishment for PAlestinians who don't attack Israelis.

Mr. President · June 28, 2002, 06:45

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Please don't kill any more children tonight.

Oh, that's real nice. Very mature too, big man.

The Mad Monk · June 28, 2002, 06:54

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Originally posted by CyberGnu

read again.

Of course, it made me waste five minutes of my life looking it up...

28-06-2002 04:02

There is no entry with that stamp. Please look it up again.

Or, better yet, type it out here.

Sirotnikov · June 28, 2002, 06:56

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Well, source them then? You are making the claim that palestinians deliberately target children. So far you've provided one example (which I'll accept because I remember readin about it, although if we want to be strict there should be a source on that one too. It's up to you if you want to, I don't require it on that one). One example doesn't prove anything.

Look, when something happens I post it here and usually provide sources.

You were burrying your head into the sand, not following the events, and then you have enough spite to come here and argue about things you don't even care following in the news.

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Intriguingly... The majority of JP writers are palestinans or IDF soldiers?

Nope.
They are reporters which

1) go to the field to see what palestinians and IDF are doing
2) talk to palestinians, soldiers, terrorists

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And I'd like the question of adulthood resolved.

If a 15 year old is considered adult, and these teens were 15+, then the points are moot.

Hmm... I would expect international law to be the proper authority on this.

You mean, if I say something like, that according to Jewish tradition, people which are older than 13 are adults, it suddenly becomes legitimate to target them in a war?

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I can't tell a 16 year odl from a 18 year old...

I doubt you can't tell a bunch of averagely 15 y/o kids, from another bunch of averagely 25 y/o people.

Eli · June 28, 2002, 07:03

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Originally posted by The Mad Monk

There is no entry with that stamp. Please look it up again.

Or, better yet, type it out here.

Time differences.

He is talking about :

Quote:

Entering the house: well, one could assume that not only kids live in the house, don't you think? In fact, one could even assume that there is a larger propability of there being adults in the house than there being children. So the attack was aimed at adults, and children were the victims. Victims of Sharons greed.

Sirotnikov · June 28, 2002, 07:44

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Originally posted by CyberGnu

Find me the die welt retraction then.

Give me the date and i will search for the die welt article or it's retraction.

Sirotnikov · June 28, 2002, 07:45

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Originally posted by CyberGnu

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But he entered a room and saw a child and then killed it.

I don't see this as falling under the "killed child on accident" category underwhich it falls on the shoulders of the occupiers.

Wasn't he under fire when this happened? I'd say that a person under fire is not capable of acting 100% rationally.

No he wasn't under fire. Simply went between the rooms.

Sirotnikov · June 28, 2002, 07:47

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Originally posted by CyberGnu
This is bull and you know it.

Then explain to me again why has terror erupted in 1929?

Arrian · June 28, 2002, 10:16

Wow, lots of posts since yesterday. I will respond to the one that was directed at me several pages ago.

Quote:

Originally posted by CyberGnu

What then?

It's a simple question. You saw fit to insult me over it, I think I can demand an answer.

Please enlighten me.

No, because the US is not occupying Saudi-Arabia. Amazing how hard that concept seems to be to israeli apologizers. The US bombings in afganistan are more related the palestinian bombings in Israel than Israels occupation of palestine.

Regarding the children, yes I agree they are innocent. How should that influence the the resistance? Are you defending the practice of using children as human shields? It is up to the parents of the children to either end the occupation or to move away from Israel. The blood of every slain Israeli child is on Sharons hands, not Arafats.

First off, I already answered your question of "what is it you doubt?" My answer, if you had read my post, was "I doubt that the IDF intentionally kills civilians."

Second, I attempted to enlighten you. Clearly I failed. I will not try again (why I bothered in the first place is beyond me).

Third, please get it through your skull that I am not an "Israeli apologizer." I do not defend the occupation. I support the idea of Palestinian statehood. I object to Israeli policies as well as acts carried out by Hamas and the like. We happened, however, to be discussing the targetting of civilians, which I think is wrong.

Fourth and finally, the idea that by living in Israel parents are "using their children as human shields" is sick. Let's take the example of an Israeli who opposes the occupation. He/she votes against Likud, marches in protest, and writes to his/her representative in goverment. This person's child is a "human shield" because he/she will not move out of Israel? That's insane.

-Arrian