Noah's Ark Found!

[Asher]

Originally posted by Cloud9
http://www.wyattnewsletters.com/articles/bythywords.htm

The above concludes that the so called 'hoax' was a lie just to try and throw everybody off. Pathetic!

Where does it conclude anything remotely close to that?

The article is lashing out at some book by Sellier and Balsiger and the debunk article Boris cited is by one Jim Lippard.

The 'hoax' by Jammal was indeed a lie, which we've already established and what you've been arguing against for the past couple pages.

BTW, did ya'll know that I'm an investigator? I work for the FBI (Firm Believers In Christ)!

Wouldn't that be FBC or FBIC?

Here is another picture of Mt. Ararat. As is cleary shown, Mt. Ararat is connected to at least one other mountain in the region:

Amazing, there's a mountain nearby. Therefore, ___________?

IIRC, Mt Ararat is one of the largest land-mass mountains in the world, if not the largest.

[Mr. Nice Guy]

Further evidence that Jammal lied about the hoax:
http://www.skeptic.com/02.4.lippard-ark-hoax.html

It seems that a thorough investigation can come to interesting conclusions, can't it Boris.

[Asher]

Originally posted by Cloud9
Further evidence that Jammal lied about the hoax:
http://www.skeptic.com/02.4.lippard-ark-hoax.html

It seems that a thorough investigation can come to interesting conclusions, can't it Boris.

What the hell, man, we know Jammal lied to make the hoax.

That's why it's so funny you still believe all of this is legit, when everyone knows it was a hoax...

[Mr. Nice Guy]

I have tried looking for the website of Sun International Pictures, the company that made the documentary that aired on CBS, but have been unable to locate it. If it is found, I have a hunch that Sun International Pictures now admits that the hoax was a lie. This will be the smoking gun if it is uncovered.

This is all part of an investigation, folks.

[Boris Godunov]

Cloud9 - Um, we've been saying Jammal was a liar the whole time. Thanks for agreeing with us.

And here's another site that discredits Wyatt. He was quite the insidious con man:

http://www.answersingenesis.org/docs/1154.asp

He bilked people out of tens of thousands of dollars, too. Shame on you for promoting a liar and thief!

A few years ago in China, a local found a B-24 on a side of a mountain that would never have been found if he had not climb down the mountain for some reason. All of the remaines were returned to the US to the family.
The Ark could still be there somewhere. We (man of today) have yet to find it.
Faith is believing and not yet seen it. Jesus said to Thomas bless are those who has not yet seen but believed.

[Asher]

Originally posted by Cloud9
I have tried looking for the website of Sun International Pictures, the company that made the documentary that aired on CBS, but have been unable to locate it. If it is found, I have a hunch that Sun International Pictures now admits that the hoax was a lie. This will be the smoking gun if it is uncovered.

This is all part of an investigation, folks.

Are you having some trouble with basic logic or what?

It wasn't the hoax that was a lie, it was the original story. That's why the original story was a hoax.

Get it?

[Lincoln]

Originally posted by Boris Godunov
Cloud9 - Um, we've been saying Jammal was a liar the whole time. Thanks for agreeing with us.

And here's another site that discredits Wyatt. He was quite the insidious con man:

http://www.answersingenesis.org/docs/1154.asp

He bilked people out of tens of thousands of dollars, too. Shame on you for promoting a liar and thief!

Thanks for the link. It is interesting that a creationist web site refutes his claims.

[Boris Godunov]

Because it doesn't take an Atheistic science-worshiping heathen to see Wyatt was a total fraud and scam artist, Lincoln.

[Boris Godunov]

Originally posted by Asher

Are you having some trouble with basic logic or what?

It wasn't the hoax that was a lie, it was the original story. That's why the original story was a hoax.

Get it?

For the life of me, it seems like the boy's synapses just aren't firing fully today...

[Mr. Nice Guy]

Originally posted by Boris Godunov
For the life of me, it seems like the boy's synapses just aren't firing fully today...

Who's synapses?

[Asher]

Perfect!

[Boris Godunov]

Why do I feel like Foghorn Leghorn?

[Ramo]

I find it hard to believe that a boat that supposedly once held 2 of every species of animals is too tiny to be recognizable by a satellite photo.

[Mr. Nice Guy]

Originally posted by Boris Godunov
And here's another site that discredits Wyatt. He was quite the insidious con man:

I think all the discrediting of Wyatt is purely speculation against him, in that there is no real proof that Wyatt has lied about his findings.

[Asher]

/me snaps his fingers around Cloud9's head.

[Mr. Nice Guy]

Originally posted by Cloud9
I think all the discrediting of Wyatt is purely speculation against him, in that there is no real proof that Wyatt as lied about his findings.

This investigation of mine may take hours, it may take days, it may take weeks. Either way I'm going to uncover the truthfulness in the scriptures, for it is by faith that I believe before I see. And what I've uncovered so far compels me to look even deeper.

I am not saying that the site I'm referring to actually is Noah's Ark, as the smoking gun that says it is has not yet been found. But there is good indications that it is.

[Boris Godunov]

*sigh*

http://www.noahsarksearch.com/ronwyatt.htm

Quote:

"Who Is Ron Wyatt?

Evidence generally stands or falls on its own merits. Rarely is there a need to delve into the nature and character of the one making a claim. A careful evaluation of the facts is usually sufficient. Unless of course, the one making the claim calls attention to himself in such a way that makes us openly skeptical.

Would you the readers of ARARAT REPORT not question someone who not only claims to have found Noah's Ark, but also every archaeological site of interest to Christians?

Ron Waytt has made such claims. We have him saying it on tape.

Ron claims that on January 6, 1982 at 2:00 P.M. he found the Ark of the Covenant under the escarpment of Calvary.

A credible source heard him say on a Nashville television program that he held in his hands the stone tablets of the ten commandments and that they were fastened with golden hinges!

He claims he found the Ark of the Covenant under the exact spot where Jesus was crucified. He found the stone socket in which the cross of Christ was placed. When pierced by the sword, Ron believes the blood dripped down into the socket and dripped through a crack caused by the earthquake and landed on the mercy seat 60 feet down in a subterranean chamber!

He has also found the mountain that is the biblical Mt. Sinai where God dispensed the law to His people. This mountain is located in Saudi Arabia (Jabal Al Lawz), and is strangely enough, one of the legendary places for the mountain. Dr. Frank Cross of Harvard thinks it is a good candidate, but admits that there is as of now no evidence to confirm it.

Ron believes he has located the 12 altars build by Moses in Exodus 24. This strains credulity again since Moses built these in one day and the rocks were not to be handhewn. How could they possibly be recognizable today? Ron is undaunted.

He also found the spot where the ground swallowed up Korah and his followers.

Ron also knows exactly where the Israelites crossed the Red Sea and has even located chariot parts from Pharaoh's army. He claims he found a chariot wheel one and a half miles out in the Gulf of Aqaba and in two hundred feet of water! Professional skin divers say this would be quite a feat to dive that far down and impossible to photograph without sophisticated lighting equipment.

Ron also claims that he found a stone monument near the site of the crossing erected by Solomon. He claims it is inscribed with the ancient Hebrew script.

Ron claims that he has solved the problem of the construction of the pyramids, and the problems in Egyptian chronology. Indeed, he has even constructed a working model of the machine he believes the Egyptians used to build the pyramids. It is indeed an interesting looking device!

Ron knows how the Shroud of Turin was forged; he has cracked the code of the Copper Scroll; in fact he has claimed to mutual acquaintances that he can read any ancient inscription.

Is Ron Wyatt the greatest archaeologist that ever lived? Or is there a better conclusion? Who is Ron Wyatt? We found this a very difficult question to answer.

Almost no one knew Ron Wyatt outside of his claim to have found Noah's Ark. Prior to 1984 his life is pretty much a mystery.

He is a man in his middle fifties. He came from a large family and spent most of his days in the Kentucky-Tennessee area.

He was raised in the Seventh Day Adventist Church and believes currently that the beliefs of this church are the purist representation of the Church found in the Bible. He gives much credit to Seventh Day Adventist Prophetess, Ellen G. White, for help in many of his discoveries. He names her book PATRIARCHS AND PROPHETS as being particular helpful in aiding him in finding the Red Sea crossing.

For the benefit of our readers who are not acquainted with the Adventist church, Ellen G. White was one of the founders of that church and was to have experienced over 100 visions.

As we mentioned earlier, Ron is a Certified Registered Nurse Anesthetist, one of 23,000 in the U.S. Since 1984, however, he has had little time to practice his profession.

Ron has literally spent thousands of dollars, some of it his own, to make his "discoveries".

We know of one party who has donated around $30,000 to Ron's various expeditions. This gentlemen claims he was approached for more money, but the man refused unless Ron agreed to be tested by a polygraph. According to this man's testimony, the results were not positive for Ron's claims.

Ron hired the public relations firm of Jeff Roberts and Associates in Hendersonville, TN to handle his bookings for speaking engagements. This firm has produced a slick brochure and packet of materials intended for press releases. We found some of the information disturbing because it was misleading.

It lists Ron as graduating from the University of Michigan with honors in Pre-med and as having finished all the requirements for an M.A. and Ph.D. in antiquities. It also lists him as being a Korean war veteran.

We found none of the above to be true. When we called the P.R. firm about these discrepancies, they admitted that the document needed to be re-written, but they did not know who was to blame for the inaccuracies.

We did learn that Ron attended Western Michigan for a number of years as well as several other schools. So far as we know, he does not have any earned degree (which of course does not preclude him from making a discovery) and there is no record of him serving in the Korean War.

Ron is a very friendly person. We would add that he is also a very colorful person. He is the type that could sell sand to an Arab Sheik. We do not doubt his intelligence. We are uncertain of his motivation. It doesn't appear to be money. It appears to us that he really believes he has found Noah's Ark, and that he is pretty committed to following it through.

To us it seems incredible that Ron could have found and solved problems that have baffled professional archaeologists for more than a century. We think Ron missed his calling. He could be a "can't lose" writer for episodes of "Indiana Jones" movies.

As a Christian I can't think of anything that would be more exciting than to learn of the discovery of Noah's Ark. And, if Ron turns out to be right, you'd better believe we'll be among the first apologize for doubting his claims."

And:

http://www.answersingenesis.org/docs/1154.asp

Here the article points out the specific claims by Wyatt and shows how they have been rebutted. Some, like the petrified wood one, has to be a deliberate lie.

http://www.theoysoma.com/nachfors/ar...k/indexark.htm

It's a scam he used to make money off of:

http://www.theoysoma.com/nachfors/ar...stianScam.html

I assure you, that were your belief system correct, Wyatt would be burning in Hell now as a liar and a thief.

[Boris Godunov]

Originally posted by Cloud9
I am not saying that the site I'm referring to actually is Noah's Ark,

You did and now you're backpedaling. That's dishonest.

But there is good indications that it is.

There is not a shred of one. The only thing you have is a rock formation that is somewhat shaped like a boat hull, and even Christian geologists and experts have concluded, decisively, that it is not the Ark.

You've been suckered by a scam artist.

[Mr. Nice Guy]

Originally posted by Boris Godunov
*sigh*

http://www.noahsarksearch.com/ronwyatt.htm

Quote:

"Who Is Ron Wyatt?

Evidence generally stands or falls on its own merits. Rarely is there a need to delve into the nature and character of the one making a claim. A careful evaluation of the facts is usually sufficient. Unless of course, the one making the claim calls attention to himself in such a way that makes us openly skeptical.

Would you the readers of ARARAT REPORT not question someone who not only claims to have found Noah's Ark, but also every archaeological site of interest to Christians?

Ron Waytt has made such claims. We have him saying it on tape.

Ron claims that on January 6, 1982 at 2:00 P.M. he found the Ark of the Covenant under the escarpment of Calvary.

A credible source heard him say on a Nashville television program that he held in his hands the stone tablets of the ten commandments and that they were fastened with golden hinges!

He claims he found the Ark of the Covenant under the exact spot where Jesus was crucified. He found the stone socket in which the cross of Christ was placed. When pierced by the sword, Ron believes the blood dripped down into the socket and dripped through a crack caused by the earthquake and landed on the mercy seat 60 feet down in a subterranean chamber!

He has also found the mountain that is the biblical Mt. Sinai where God dispensed the law to His people. This mountain is located in Saudi Arabia (Jabal Al Lawz), and is strangely enough, one of the legendary places for the mountain. Dr. Frank Cross of Harvard thinks it is a good candidate, but admits that there is as of now no evidence to confirm it.

Ron believes he has located the 12 altars build by Moses in Exodus 24. This strains credulity again since Moses built these in one day and the rocks were not to be handhewn. How could they possibly be recognizable today? Ron is undaunted.

He also found the spot where the ground swallowed up Korah and his followers.

Ron also knows exactly where the Israelites crossed the Red Sea and has even located chariot parts from Pharaoh's army. He claims he found a chariot wheel one and a half miles out in the Gulf of Aqaba and in two hundred feet of water! Professional skin divers say this would be quite a feat to dive that far down and impossible to photograph without sophisticated lighting equipment.

Ron also claims that he found a stone monument near the site of the crossing erected by Solomon. He claims it is inscribed with the ancient Hebrew script.

Ron claims that he has solved the problem of the construction of the pyramids, and the problems in Egyptian chronology. Indeed, he has even constructed a working model of the machine he believes the Egyptians used to build the pyramids. It is indeed an interesting looking device!

Ron knows how the Shroud of Turin was forged; he has cracked the code of the Copper Scroll; in fact he has claimed to mutual acquaintances that he can read any ancient inscription.

Is Ron Wyatt the greatest archaeologist that ever lived? Or is there a better conclusion? Who is Ron Wyatt? We found this a very difficult question to answer.

Almost no one knew Ron Wyatt outside of his claim to have found Noah's Ark. Prior to 1984 his life is pretty much a mystery.

He is a man in his middle fifties. He came from a large family and spent most of his days in the Kentucky-Tennessee area.

He was raised in the Seventh Day Adventist Church and believes currently that the beliefs of this church are the purist representation of the Church found in the Bible. He gives much credit to Seventh Day Adventist Prophetess, Ellen G. White, for help in many of his discoveries. He names her book PATRIARCHS AND PROPHETS as being particular helpful in aiding him in finding the Red Sea crossing.

For the benefit of our readers who are not acquainted with the Adventist church, Ellen G. White was one of the founders of that church and was to have experienced over 100 visions.

As we mentioned earlier, Ron is a Certified Registered Nurse Anesthetist, one of 23,000 in the U.S. Since 1984, however, he has had little time to practice his profession.

Ron has literally spent thousands of dollars, some of it his own, to make his "discoveries".

We know of one party who has donated around $30,000 to Ron's various expeditions. This gentlemen claims he was approached for more money, but the man refused unless Ron agreed to be tested by a polygraph. According to this man's testimony, the results were not positive for Ron's claims.

Ron hired the public relations firm of Jeff Roberts and Associates in Hendersonville, TN to handle his bookings for speaking engagements. This firm has produced a slick brochure and packet of materials intended for press releases. We found some of the information disturbing because it was misleading.

It lists Ron as graduating from the University of Michigan with honors in Pre-med and as having finished all the requirements for an M.A. and Ph.D. in antiquities. It also lists him as being a Korean war veteran.

We found none of the above to be true. When we called the P.R. firm about these discrepancies, they admitted that the document needed to be re-written, but they did not know who was to blame for the inaccuracies.

We did learn that Ron attended Western Michigan for a number of years as well as several other schools. So far as we know, he does not have any earned degree (which of course does not preclude him from making a discovery) and there is no record of him serving in the Korean War.

Ron is a very friendly person. We would add that he is also a very colorful person. He is the type that could sell sand to an Arab Sheik. We do not doubt his intelligence. We are uncertain of his motivation. It doesn't appear to be money. It appears to us that he really believes he has found Noah's Ark, and that he is pretty committed to following it through.

To us it seems incredible that Ron could have found and solved problems that have baffled professional archaeologists for more than a century. We think Ron missed his calling. He could be a "can't lose" writer for episodes of "Indiana Jones" movies.

As a Christian I can't think of anything that would be more exciting than to learn of the discovery of Noah's Ark. And, if Ron turns out to be right, you'd better believe we'll be among the first apologize for doubting his claims."

And:

http://www.answersingenesis.org/docs/1154.asp

Here the article points out the specific claims by Wyatt and shows how they have been rebutted. Some, like the petrified wood one, has to be a deliberate lie.

http://www.theoysoma.com/nachfors/ar...k/indexark.htm

It's a scam he used to make money off of:

http://www.theoysoma.com/nachfors/ar...stianScam.html

I assure you, that were your belief system correct, Wyatt would be burning in Hell now as a liar and a thief.

Again, this is all speculation.

[Asher]

How is it speculation when the guy is quoted in recorded interviews as saying and doing all this stuff...

[Mr. Nice Guy]

Originally posted by Boris Godunov
You did and now you're backpedaling. That's dishonest.

That was just my first theory. As an investigator, I have be open to changing my mind if need be; that's what makes a good investigator.

There is not a shred of one. The only thing you have is a rock formation that is somewhat shaped like a boat hull, and even Christian geologists and experts have concluded, decisively, that it is not the Ark.

You've been suckered by a scam artist.

Somehow I get the feeling that YOU don't want to keep an open mind on things.

[Asher]

That was just my first theory. As an investigator, I have be open to changing my mind if need be; that's what makes a good investigator.

I just got the mental image of a 6 year old with a big Sherlock Holmes style hat and magnifying glass.

[Boris Godunov]

Originally posted by Asher
How is it speculation when the guy is quoted in recorded interviews as saying and doing all this stuff...

Lord only knows.

Cloud9, it is far less speculative than Wyatt's claims. He deliberately lied about there being "trainloads" of petrified wood at the site.

And then there is this:

"The pattern of ‘iron lines’ that was located by the metal detecting surveys and marked out by plastic tape was duplicated and verified by other subsurface techniques including ground penetrating, or subsurface interface, radar surveys, particularly the radar scans obtained by Fasold and Wyatt. These radar scans showed an internal structure typical of a boat’s structural framework (‘bulkheads’, ‘keelsons’, ‘walls’, etc.). Tom Fenner of Geophysical Survey Systems Inc. has thus designated the formation as a man-made boat.

In Reality
This claim is utterly false, yet it has been persistently used to give credence to diagrams purporting to show the internal structure of a boat, namely Noah’s Ark. Both Baumgardner and Dr William Shea were in Turkey in June-July 1986 waiting to join Wyatt on site. Wyatt and Fasold told them that they went to the site without a permit and in 30 minutes made 10 passes with the radar scanner only over the southernmost portion of the boat-shape, the so-called ‘prow’. Upon rendezvousing with Shea, Wyatt provided him with copies of these radar scans. Shea has forwarded them to us.

The permit was eventually approved, but Wyatt, Fasold and their party were not allowed back to the site with the radar scanner by the local police and military, so the planned follow-up work to radar scan the whole formation never came to pass, at least not at the hands of Wyatt and Fasold, from all published accounts. Yet, Wyatt and Roberts have both published diagrams of the boat-shape showing a supposed internal structure of transverse and longitudinal divisions which they have labelled as ‘bulkheads’ and ‘gunwales’ over the whole ‘boat’, the latter referencing Fasold’s 1986 survey of only part of it.

Furthermore, both Wyatt and Roberts legitimize these claims by using the name of Tom Fenner of Geophysical Survey Systems Incorporated in New Hampshire, who they say looked at the 1986 radar scans and concluded that the formation is ‘a man-made boat’.

So what did these radar scans really show? There are a series of laterally periodic narrow reflections stacked in column-like ‘structures’ at approximately the same depth. Roughly equidistant, they may give a ‘non-natural’ impression at first glance. Fasold called these the ‘subsurface walls’ he thought he had initially ‘detected’ with the ‘molecular frequency generator’ and plotted them as ‘bulkheads’ and ‘gunwales’ on diagrams. However, this interpretation of these radar scans does not take into account the crucial topographic (surface) variations across the site. If it did, Wyatt and Fasold would never have been able to convince themselves, let alone anyone else, about these so-called ‘bulkheads’, etc. Interestingly, Fasold admits on one of his published radar scans that the radar missed some of these so-called ‘walls’.

Geophysicist Tom Fenner says, ‘I was surprised and dismayed to learn that Mr Wyatt was using my name as well as the name of Geophysical Survey Systems Inc. (GSSI) in order to lend credibility to his unsubstantiated claims concerning the so-called “Noah’s Ark site.”’ Fenner goes on to indicate that neither he nor GSSI believes the formation to be manmade. He writes, ‘In 1987 I performed an extensive GPR [ground-penetrating radar] study in an attempt to characterize any shallow subsurface features in the boat-shaped formation at the site… . A great deal of effort was put into repeating the radar measurements acquired in 1986 by Wyatt and Fasold… . After numerous attempts over a period of one and a half days we were unable to duplicate their radar records in any way…. I was never convinced the site was the remains of Noah’s Ark. In fact the more time I spent on the site, the more skeptical I became.’"

http://www.answersingenesis.org/docs/1154.asp

That's a deliberate lie, my friend. Wyatt lied about what Fenner said.

[Boris Godunov]

Originally posted by Cloud9

Somehow I get the feeling that YOU don't want to keep an open mind on things.

There's not one shred of evidence on your side. My mind is plenty open...to real evidence. There isn't. This site is a rock formation, nothing else.

[Boris Godunov]

Originally posted by Asher

I just got the mental image of a 6 year old with a big Sherlock Holmes style hat and magnifying glass.

I was thinking more of Harriet the Spy...

[Mr. Nice Guy]

Originally posted by Boris Godunov
That's a deliberate lie, my friend. Wyatt lied about what Fenner said.

Somehow I get the feeling that these websites you are visiting are all lies, as it is human nature to do so. You should quote a reliable source.

If you can't keep an open mind on this, then there is no point in me continuing this discussion with you. I will put you on my Ignore List, and continue it without you.

[Asher]

And now that six year old Sherlock Holmes is plugging his ears and shrieking "lalala, I can't hear you!".

[Mr. Nice Guy]

BTW, if anyone wants to join my investigation on The Case of Noah's Ark you are welcome to do so, but you must keep an open mind on the case. I would greatly appreciate any help that I can get.

[Ramo]

Look Cloud, the burden of proof is on you. Find a peer-reviewed academic source. Any nutcase can put whatever he wants on his website.