Multiplayer Tournament! - Page 2

Immortal Wombat · July 19, 2002, 17:38

Quote:

Originally posted by J Bytheway

Quote:

Originally posted by Immortal Wombat
Which college are you at in Cambridge?

Pembroke. But I probably shouldn't say - anyone can locate me now

. Not that it would have been so hard previously for non-fools...

Brilliant. I'm deciding between Pembroke and Emma. You're at the one, Chowlett's at the other.

J Bytheway · July 19, 2002, 18:14

Quote:

Originally posted by Immortal Wombat

Brilliant. I'm deciding between Pembroke and Emma. You're at the one, Chowlett's at the other.

Pembroke is perfect for me - small, very friendly. I don't know much about Emma, but I do know thet Emma has ducks whereas we eat ducks

.

What subject? I'm doing maths and Pembroke got very good maths results this year - our director of studies is a hard task-master but he gets good results.

Good luck with your application.

Immortal Wombat · July 19, 2002, 18:23

NatSci with 25% CS. The director of CS is a bioinformatician, which is kind of where I was going, so I'm leaning towards Pembroke.

But I like ducks

J Bytheway · July 19, 2002, 18:40

Quote:

Originally posted by Immortal Wombat
NatSci with 25% CS. The director of CS is a bioinformatician, which is kind of where I was going, so I'm leaning towards Pembroke.

Some of my best friends are CompScis (

) - they say 25%ers get a bit of a raw deal if they wish to continue with CS, since you miss some fairly crucial courses. I had a similar experience since I did Maths with Physics for the first year, and ended up doing the whole Maths course any way so I don't have to catch up this coming year. Doing 1.25 courses is tough going.

Quote:

But I like ducks

To eat, right?

I'd never eaten duck before, but I kind of like it now - it certainly beats the pasta option. I've never known anyone ruin pasta as thoroughly as they do at Pembroke.

But anyhow, must stop rambling. What was the topic of this thread again?..

Turambar · July 20, 2002, 08:27

I'd love to play in it providing the times are right etc and my 56k modem will be fast enough. I've never played over the net before how long do games useually last?

dregman · July 20, 2002, 09:16

I waited so long for this!!!
i really think there should be such a tournament.
tell me when it starts
please????????

Oerdin · July 20, 2002, 11:16

Dreg's right. When is the starting date Lucutus? BTW Mark must be having a hard time selling that stuff in the poly store or else he wouldn't be offering us a discount.

J Bytheway · July 20, 2002, 13:00

Don't let this damp your enthusiasm, but if the CTP1 tournament is anyhthing to go by it will take months to hammer out the rules - but I think it might well be quicker over here. It would certainly help if more people posted their preferences (*hint*).

Immortal Wombat · July 20, 2002, 19:14

Has anyone suggested emailing everyone on the MP registry yet? That would get you participants...

Locutus · July 20, 2002, 19:18

Turambar & dregman,
Great to hear you guys are in

That brings the list to five:
1. Oerdin
2. Maquiladora
3. Immortal Wombat
4. Turambar
5. dregman

As far as starting date goes, basically we'll start when everything is set. We first need to get enough players together. Hopefully I'll be able so send email again tomorrow, at which point I plan to email everyone in the MP Registry. After that I will post in a number of related forums. All in the hope to getting more people involved. I think we should give participants at least another week to sign up, maybe longer (depending on how much time I have for advertising).

In the meantime we need to figure out the rules and setup of the tournament. As John said, we need everyone to post his preferences so we can compare and discuss. I don't think this will take as long as for the CtP1 World Cup as that tourny was supposed to be the ultimate test, while this tourny is just a tourny. If we really get stuck, I or some other staff member could if it's really necessary simply set the rules and say that anyone who doesn't agree is out of luck (but I'd prefer to have some sort of consensus of course).

Once enough participants have signed up and the rules have been set, the tourny can start. If everything goes perfectly, we might be able to start next week. If things go a little slow and we can't agree on the rules and stuff, it could be several weeks, maybe a month before the tourny can actually begin.

BTW, I think Apolyton CtP2 MP Tournament is a little boring for a title, anyone have better suggestions? I was thinking CtP2 Lemur Trophy myself...

Locutus · July 20, 2002, 19:23

LOL, crossposted with IW. Yes, Ben, I've mentioned that I would do that several times already (although only twice publicly

)

Turambar · July 21, 2002, 07:22

Do you need a really fast modem to play? How long does a game usually last?

Maquiladora · July 21, 2002, 07:28

No, you dont need a fast modem, the host would preferably have a faster connection but i havent noticed a difference. The speed of the game depends on the size of the map and how many human players. Ive had a 2 player game on a small map last for about 4 hours total playing time. And some VERY quick 3/4 player games on a regular map too.

Maquiladora · July 21, 2002, 07:32

There is a possibility of having a time limit on each game. Say 3/4 hours and whoever has more Cities/Points/Advances by the time limit, if the game hasnt finished, then that player wins. I dont like that alot, but its good for quick games.

Oerdin · July 21, 2002, 13:25

Quote:

Originally posted by Turambar
Do you need a really fast modem to play? How long does a game usually last?

It is important for the host to be on a fast modem but as long as the others are atleast on a 56.6 with a good clean connection things should be fine. Other important factors are the server being used and real life location of the players. When players are located all over the world you tend to get more resynchs but the game will still work.

Game length varies with map size & settings along with the play style of the people playing. I've been in some MP games were someone one in 30minutes I've been in some that took up to 20 hours. It all depends.

Still the smaller the map the shorter the game is a good hard and fast rule.

Oerdin · July 21, 2002, 13:26

Quote:

Originally posted by Locutus
BTW, I think Apolyton CtP2 MP Tournament is a little boring for a title, anyone have better suggestions? I was thinking CtP2 Lemur Trophy myself...

How about the calling it the first annual CTP2 showdown? Maybe we could collect five or six suggestions and then make a poll to determine the winner.

J Bytheway · July 21, 2002, 13:47

Certainly you shouldn't call it a tournament because that will create great confusion with the SP tournament.

Wittlich · July 21, 2002, 14:25

I will go ahead and throw my hat into the ring...as long as the game isn't going to start in the next week or so, I can join you all.

Turambar · July 21, 2002, 14:46

Quote:

I've been in some that took up to 20 hours.

I'm guessing you took breaks during the game?

Oerdin · July 22, 2002, 00:20

Yes, we saved twice and restarted on different days.

Blink Jim · July 22, 2002, 11:28

Where do i sign up

Locutus · July 23, 2002, 06:20

Blink Jim,
You just did

Wittlich,
Great to have you in!

List of participants so far:
1. Maquiladora
2. Oerdin
3. Immortal Wombat
4. Turambar
5. dregman
6. Wittlich
7. Blink Jim

possibly:
8. child of Thor
9. Locutus (if I can get Solver or MarkG or someone to take over the organisation/moderation, since that will have to be done a neutral (non-participating) person)

John & John,

Yes, exactly what I was thinking: 2 Tournaments is too confusing. A poll on the name would be good, so I'm accepting more suggestions

So far we have:

1. Apolyton Lemur Trophy
2. Apolyton CtP2 Showdown

Come on people, be creative

I still need people to state their preferences, I'll repeat them (and add a few more):

1) Random map or pre-made map? (2 votes for random)
2) Default games or mod? What mod? (2 votes for default patched game, 0.5 vote for WAW)
3) 1-on-1 or 3 or 4 people per match? (1 vote for 2 humans, 1 for more (I think))
4) Piracy, Pillaging, Wonders, Nukes: allowed or not? (1 vote for no nukes, 1 for no wonders)
5) What difficulty/barbarian level? Pollution on or not? (1 vote for impossible, 1 for either max or no barbs, 1 for pollution on)
6) Accelerated start or not? (general tendency: 3-6 settlers (depending on mapsize), more gold)
7) What mapsize? How many AI players (if any)? (1.5 vote for regular, 1 vote for 8 players total)

In case of random map:
8) How many calls for restart, in case the starting location is very poor? One, two, unlimited? (1 vote for one)
9) What properties should the map have? Wet vs Dry, Continents vs Islands, how much land, how diverse, how many goods, etc?

New:
10) What kind of MP game? Normal, Speed Turns, Carryover, Speed Cities? (1 vote for Speed Turns, assuming more than 2 human players)

11) What structure of the tournament? This largely depends on whether how many humans per game. Assuming 1-on-1, should it be a competition (everyone plays everyone), play-offs (winner goes through, looser is out) or a mix of both (pools of 4, #1 and #2 go through for play-off - or: #1 goes through to quarter/semi final (depending on number of particiants) and #2 plays an extra match against other #2)? In case of 3 or 4 humans per game, what then? I'm not too familiar with this situation but I can image matches of 3/4 with the best 1 or 2 players going through to the next round. I can also imagine a match with 4 humans, where the winner goes through to the (semi-)final and the other 3 play an second match for an extra place in the (semi-)final. There are probably other setups possible as well (suggestions more than welcome!). We could even have a mix of both: play 1st round matches with 4 players, the winner(s) goes through to the 2nd round (and beyond?), which consists of 1 vs 1 games.

Feel free to bring up other preferences/issues, this list may not be comprehensive!

Starting date: currently aiming for early August (starting date between the 3rd and the 10th), but that mainly depends on how fast we can lay down the rules and stuff. Is this okay for everyone?

Maquiladora · July 23, 2002, 08:45

The first few matches should be 4 human players, to keep things interesting. And later on just 1v1, with the winners of each game.

Also a good rule is to be only allowed war with one other human player. For example if 4 plys in a game, players A, B, C and D. Players A and B are at war, so players C or D cannot attack A or B. If B dies or player A and B make peace then C or D can attack A or B. Im not sure about player C giving player B gold/advances so he can beat player A though.

Hope that was clear. It just makes things more fair. As would excluding wonders, im for that too.

Locutus · July 23, 2002, 09:31

Hmm, to me it would seem that diplomacy (public and/or secret alliances, backstabbing, helping out the weak (or help killing them off

) and such) are the single most important plus that MP offers over SP (more even than smarter opponents), but if others agree with you, I guess I we could make that a rule...

Locutus · July 23, 2002, 20:13

Email to MP Registry members has been sent...

{\S/}Tripa{\S/} · July 24, 2002, 01:23

Im in I havnt played in ages so my skill is probably all ****ed up but hey ill give it a shot.

that gives u 8 how many r u trying to get coz i can try round up some old players i know if ya like

Locutus · July 24, 2002, 04:39

Great to have you in Tripa, you're probably the oldest MP veteran I know

(but I don't know many, so that doesn't say very much

)

And don't worry, some of the players have never played MP before so even if your skill is not what it used to be, you have a good chance at winning...

Well, I'd like to get as many players as possible. 16 would be an ideal number of course, but more or less would be acceptable as well. It would be absolutely fanastic if you could round up some more players

Oerdin · July 24, 2002, 06:47

Quote:

Originally posted by Maquiladora
The first few matches should be 4 human players, to keep things interesting. And later on just 1v1, with the winners of each game.

Also a good rule is to be only allowed war with one other human player. For example if 4 plys in a game, players A, B, C and D. Players A and B are at war, so players C or D cannot attack A or B. If B dies or player A and B make peace then C or D can attack A or B. Im not sure about player C giving player B gold/advances so he can beat player A though.

Hope that was clear. It just makes things more fair. As would excluding wonders, im for that too.

I agree with MQ about the number of players but I don't like the no attack rule. A big part of the game is diplomacy and this rule would limit that.

child of Thor · July 24, 2002, 08:28

Time is against me on this one, i'm on holiday at this time ,and where i'm going i don't think they even have phones!

Don't even know if i'll have time to finish the SAP tourney

If you got 8 interested parties that's cool for 4 players x2(or 2 lots of 3+a 2player), still even with just 2 human players, from my experience, speed turns should be on - especially with a mix of people who are essentially strangers(!), it will make it much less frustrating for everyone involved. I usually set the turns to 1-2minutes max per turn. As you can basically do all your city management when it's not your turn, you only need the time to shift/organise your units and for a bit of 'crisis' time

This does get a bit thin in the latter stages of the game, but it's fairly rare for a MP game(especially on small maps) not to get resolved before it gets too far in the game.

I guess vanilla game with patch for this first one - more inclusive for most people. And in that case if AI and barbs included play at least on Impossible/rageing hoards - it won't make much difference but at least the cannon fodder will put up a little fight.
Map-size small or medium(although i like to play on huge with 8civs - for those long sessions!). Standard random map setup with quite high land diversity, goods - i like quite high. Wonders i like on, just for the flavour - they are powerfull(but then they cost the player alot to build(if they don't cheat!), but you can even decide which ones to (not) include.
2 settler start and/or 1000 gold.
Nukes i've had problems with before in MP, although this was over a year ago and i've no idea if the mods sorted this out, or if it was the actual act of nuking that caused the crash or something else......
Pillaging can be a problem, but maybe Martins file for that could be used?
Piracy never bothered me - if you do pirate it never seems to make a great difference in the actual game, but it is great for MP relations('hey! - you bl**dy pirate!').
er....dynamic join on(not tested online mp myself but i guess it will work as it does in Lan).

Set aside a time limit if the game doesn't reach any conclusion - at that point if no-one is the obvious winner then use the scores. At the end you can even add a bonus for the best player as voted by all the participents, based on whatever criteria you like(loyalty,generosity,most cunning warrior etc).

I'll have to be a jealous by-stander for this one

haven't even had time recently to play much CTP2 or test if i could actually play.Busy,busy.

Oh yeah i like 'Apolyton Lemur(poo?) trophy', you could have fun finding a nice pic for it(and Hexagonian could make a cool wallpaper for the winner?

).
Have fun!

Edit: As Oerdin mentions on the limited attack thing, you got to be diplomatic to sort that out - if you are a backstabbing player then you have to be big enough to accept the consequences of your actions! No Limits!

Solver · July 24, 2002, 08:29

Quote:

9. Locutus (if I can get Solver or MarkG or someone to take over the organisation/moderation, since that will have to be done a neutral (non-participating) person)

What's the matter? Why don't you ask me? Well, Markos is certainly not going to do it, but if you want me to do anything, be quick about it

.