"Who Fired On The Helicopters?" - Page 3

DanS · July 3, 2002, 11:55

This is what happens when people don't wait for the facts to come out...

"Using B-52s to take out small squads of poorly armed militiamen. That's just asking for trouble."

How does this tragedy have anything to do with B-52s, except that they were also in the air with the AC-130s?

"It would be way more effective to send in additional groundforces to finish the job."

The "job" involves a lot of cave-busting. Ground forces are not suitable to this task.

"Most work on theground is done by unreliable Afghan allies, aided by some special forces from the US."

This hasn't been the case for months.

"And worse, these bombings of civilians don't weaken the Taliban, but strenghten them."

Doubt it will have significant impact on the Taliban's support.

Ned · July 3, 2002, 13:37

Dan, support for the Taliban may not rise in response to repeated US "mistakes," however anti-U.S. sentiment in Afghanistan would certainly rise leading perhaps to a premature end to our mission there.

Arrian · July 3, 2002, 13:43

One always must try not to wear out one's welcome. Bombing weddings is certainly one way to do that. Therefore:

Big-time apology
Money/other compensatory aid
Full investigation, charges against those deemed responsible if they violated policy. If not, policy change and fire the people who made the policy that lead to this.

Basically, make an effort to show that we're sorry. That we care.

-Arrian

MarkG · July 3, 2002, 16:23

Quote:

charges against those deemed responsible if they violated policy

at the same time that US is fighting so that's it's soldiers and officials dont have to be considered responsible for anything?

Saint Marcus · July 4, 2002, 07:31

Saint Marcus · July 4, 2002, 07:37

anyway, please note that the Soviets were first welcomed in Afghanistan too. But they quickly overstated their welcome, despite huge financing of public works in the country. The US should be very mindful not following the same route as their one time nemesis did.

Sikander · July 4, 2002, 07:54

Quote:

Originally posted by MarkG
so the rest of the casualties(that were not "the most") were caused by bombs rather than a AC-130 gunship

There were four civilian casualties evacuated after a firefight between the Taliban and coalition forces. This immediately preceeded the AC-130 action.

July 4, 2002, 15:13

Have any of you consider that since this was a local wedding that some of the people attending might be member of the Taliban or Al Qaeda, and saw a opportunely to maybe shoot down an American plane and took the chance.

Saint Marcus · July 4, 2002, 15:35

pure speculation. but if it's true, it still doesn't make things ok. Killing 40 civilians to get one enemy isn't acceptable, not even in a warzone.

MarkG · July 5, 2002, 05:48

Quote:

Afghan Governor Wants U.S. to Hand over 'Informer'
Fri Jul 5, 4:02 AM ET

KABUL (Reuters) - The governor of the central Afghan province of Uruzgan said on Friday he wanted the U.S. military to hand over the "informer" who told it to bomb villages in his province this week, killing 46 civilians.

"If they (Americans) don't submit the informer to us, then they are our enemy," Jaan Mohammad told Reuters by satellite phone from the remote, mountainous region.

"The Americans for sure know who this person is. We know him too, but we don't want to reveal his name."

The U.S. military has said it had received reliable information from several sources that senior Taliban leaders were sheltering in a remote Uruzgan village close to Deh Rawud, near the birthplace of fugitive Taliban leader Mullah Mohammad Omar.

A special forces team went in to "cordon and search" the village, but called in air strikes after seeing anti-aircraft fire coming from the area directed at coalition warplanes.

The Afghan government says 46 people were killed, including women and children attending a wedding party, when U.S. planes attacked several villages on Sunday night and Monday morning.

But a U.S. investigating team, which has been in the area since Wednesday, said it has so far only seen five graves.

Analysts said mounting anger about the civilian casualties could undermine the Western-backed government of President Hamid Karzai, and complicate U.S. efforts to track down Taliban remnants and followers of Osama bin Laden ( news - web sites), Washington's prime suspect in the September 11 attacks.

Karzai urged the United States on Thursday to liaise more closely with his government on its military operations in Afghanistan ( news - web sites).

"Arrangements should be clear," he said. "Any operation needs to be coordinated with the Afghan defense ministry."

"Our people should be immune," he told journalists. "People should not be hurt and the campaign against the Taliban and terrorism must not become the cause of people's harassment."

Karzai said he would soon travel to Uruzgan to visit mourning families there and urged the United States not to carry out military operations based only on the intelligence of informers.

July 5, 2002, 12:10

Quote:

Originally posted by MarkG

Quote:

Afghan Governor Wants U.S. to Hand over 'Informer'
Fri Jul 5, 4:02 AM ET

KABUL (Reuters) - The governor of the central Afghan province of Uruzgan said on Friday he wanted the U.S. military to hand over the "informer" who told it to bomb villages in his province this week, killing 46 civilians.

"If they (Americans) don't submit the informer to us, then they are our enemy," Jaan Mohammad told Reuters by satellite phone from the remote, mountainous region.

"The Americans for sure know who this person is. We know him too, but we don't want to reveal his name."

The U.S. military has said it had received reliable information from several sources that senior Taliban leaders were sheltering in a remote Uruzgan village close to Deh Rawud, near the birthplace of fugitive Taliban leader Mullah Mohammad Omar.

A special forces team went in to "cordon and search" the village, but called in air strikes after seeing anti-aircraft fire coming from the area directed at coalition warplanes.

The Afghan government says 46 people were killed, including women and children attending a wedding party, when U.S. planes attacked several villages on Sunday night and Monday morning.

But a U.S. investigating team, which has been in the area since Wednesday, said it has so far only seen five graves.

Analysts said mounting anger about the civilian casualties could undermine the Western-backed government of President Hamid Karzai, and complicate U.S. efforts to track down Taliban remnants and followers of Osama bin Laden ( news - web sites), Washington's prime suspect in the September 11 attacks.

Karzai urged the United States on Thursday to liaise more closely with his government on its military operations in Afghanistan ( news - web sites).

"Arrangements should be clear," he said. "Any operation needs to be coordinated with the Afghan defense ministry."

"Our people should be immune," he told journalists. "People should not be hurt and the campaign against the Taliban and terrorism must not become the cause of people's harassment."

Karzai said he would soon travel to Uruzgan to visit mourning families there and urged the United States not to carry out military operations based only on the intelligence of informers.

Starting to look like someone wanted his rivals remove with our help but not telling us the truth.

Faeelin · July 5, 2002, 12:16

The Greeks did it. Expect a nuclear armed Turkey to invade as a retaliation. Because it's quite obvious that they can't handle ruling themselves.

Bereta_Eder · July 5, 2002, 12:19

Your propaganda used to be much better.

I think you are the ones who should be worried about the effects of sudden radiation.

Faeelin · July 5, 2002, 12:21

Quote:

Originally posted by paiktis22
Your propaganda used to be much better.

I think you are the ones who should be worried about the effects of sudden radiation.

Look at the wind patterns. If The Mideast goes up (in particularly israel) as you desperately wish for, it'll blow across the meditteranean. Have a nice day.

Bereta_Eder · July 5, 2002, 12:23

Not likely.

At least not as likely as a dirty bomb.

You have a nice day too.

July 5, 2002, 12:25

Faeelin
Chieftain

Oct 2001

05-07-2002 17:16

The Greeks did it. Expect a nuclear armed Turkey to invade as a retaliation. Because it's quite obvious that they can't handle ruling themselves.

05-07-2002 17:19

Your propaganda used to be much better.

I think you are the ones who should be worried about the effects of sudden radiation.

You two need to give it a rest. The discussion is about US Forces being used to possibly take out rival faction, and in the process some civilians were killed.

Faeelin · July 5, 2002, 13:18

Quote:

Originally posted by joseph1944

You two need to give it a rest. The discussion is about US Forces being used to possibly take out rival faction, and in the process some civilians were killed.

Eh. I'm just a little pissed that no one blinked when he said several thousand Americans deserved to die on September 11th.

Bereta_Eder · July 5, 2002, 13:24

I just forwarded a position which is common amongst many Europeans. Namely that the US deserved Sept. 11 because of its crimes against countries around the world.

This is their opinion.

I am always saddened by the loss of life.

Ned · July 5, 2002, 13:48

Quote:

Originally posted by paiktis22
I just forwarded a position which is common amongst many Europeans. Namely that the US deserved Sept. 11 because of its crimes against countries around the world.

This is their opinion.

I am always saddened by the loss of life.

paiktis, what crimes are these Euro's thinking about?

DanS · July 5, 2002, 13:49

"I just forwarded a position which is common amongst many Europeans. Namely that the US deserved Sept. 11 because of its crimes against countries around the world."

I don't think it's that common. Have any backup for your assertions?

Saint Marcus · July 5, 2002, 15:10

I don't even believe that paiktis, so how "common" can it be?