The Difference Between Good and Great Players

StrategicKingMi · July 2, 2002, 19:09

I have seen alot of bad civ being played lately. I have narrowed down the difference betwween bad, good and great players to the following:
1) what is your science rate after you get trade?
If the answer is more then 20% you are not playing the game right and efficently and thus you are a bad player or maybe just a mediocre player.
Why?
Because after trade, 80-90% of your beakers should be produced via trade routes. If you produce 300 trade and science rate is at 70% then if you increased tax rate to 70% you take in 210 gold and the other way take in 0.
Spend this gold on caravans. You can finish 2 vans with this gold. Deliver them correctly they will yield about 250 gold and 250 beakers (assuming mediocore trade routes) Thus you produce 40 more beakers and 40 more gold not to mention 4 extra trade bonus's.
Now you might go a few turns with no tech and might lose a wonder but a great player knows the counters to wonders.
2) do you build Sun Tzus?
If the answer is yes, you are a bad player.
Economically Sun Tzus is a dissaster. The cost is 3 techs (warrior code, monarchy and feud.) and 6 caravans which can produce 900 gold and 900 beakers.
What do you get? Vet units...maybe some vet ships...
BIG DEAL.....
With all that gold I can build 10 barracks which is more then enough to counter the first part and since by doing thoose three techs you will most likely lose mageleons , that can counter sun tzus sea power advantage.
3) do you build markets and temples?
Market places are amoung the best investments in civ and combined with temples will counter happy wonders and allow your citys to celebrate on an individual basis.
And so many players I see do NOT build city improvements.
4) when you get statue, do you go fundy or communism?
If you go communism, you are a bad player.
Communism gives you nothing other then not having your science rate cut in half.
Fundy allows you to celebrate your citys easily with markets due to 0 unhappiness. Furthermore, you can support 10 units instead of 3 for free and you dont need to keep units inside citys far from the front doing nothing. And as far as tech goes, use vans to get beakers as I laid out in #1 and you will see how much communism sucks (celebrating citys will help for higher pay)
Are you a goodd player? Did you pass the quiz?
probably not....

Alexander's Horse · July 2, 2002, 19:50

SlowwHand · July 2, 2002, 20:21

Libraries are good to have around too.

War4ever · July 2, 2002, 20:34

yeah strat...on you med/large worlds where i am not breathing down your throat, that may work....but not on small maps where contact is inevitable and a rush is coming your way..

if you really think anyone i play will let you just sit and build, you got another thing coming

but then again you know this already

Ming · July 2, 2002, 20:38

Quote:

Originally posted by StrategicKingMi
Now you might go a few turns with no tech and might lose a wonder but a great player knows the counters to wonders.

Stats counter to getting beat to mageleons by another player...

Whine and quit since his strategy won't work if all his ships carrying caravans get sunk

StrategicKingMi · July 2, 2002, 20:44

Ok Big Mouth Warforever, I play many small map games. You want a piece of me, lets go. 2 x 2 king you got no future.
Furthermore, caravans are great in warfare. They can allow you great income to buy a military dillweed. Further more the closer you are to me, the more I will hit you with vans that will pay 200-350 gold.
Someone missed the point of #1. If your science rate is at 10-20 %, you do not need libraries.
And as far as you horse, I am sure you are just like the rest, a really bad player. You puh-pooh my very well thought out and exceuted succesfully time after time tactics. If you think you have any chance verse me, Ill kick your ass time and time again at 2 x 2 king.
You see, I am done trying to adapt to your stupid 1 x 1 deity as I can and win even more easier then at 2 x 2, but I respect my time too much to play 3 hours to get what I can get done in 2 x 2 in a third the time.

Ming · July 2, 2002, 20:54

Quote:

Originally posted by StrategicKingMi
Ok Big Mouth Warforever, I play many small map games. You want a piece of me, lets go. 2 x 2 king you got no future.
If you think you have any chance verse me, Ill kick your ass time and time again at 2 x 2 king.

A great player is one who can win on any settings... not just the pinball version of civ called 2 x2 king...

War4ever · July 2, 2002, 21:02

Hey strat your hanging out with eyes too much, i never once said you weren't a good player...even a great player....

but your know it all attitude leaves something to be desired

and obviously your head is so crammed full of strats that you can't understand that your boasting about being king etc...is a waste of time.

some of your strats are well thought out...but they are so simple in nature and you come off like you can do this every game.....correction , every game YOU win...

all your losses are due to the lame excuses cheaters use to beat their chest with and protect their fragile ego's...

i have no doubt in my mind that you would kill me in a x2x2 king game....hell even on deity at x2x2....never once said you couldn't ...and i have no desire to prove that to be honest

But your blowing smoke out your @ss if you think you can just post your strat and it will work everytime.....

The greatest players adapt to their situation as it unfolds.... i never hear a detailed description about what to do if your opponent is right on your throat....

You have played enough civ to realize that by now....You don't always get the land/huts/breaks you need to beat the top players.....

it is true great players over come these odds.... but then again, do you really think your going to march those 1mp caravans up to my ciites and i am not going to destroy them......

And who's to say i won't be doing the same to you .....

You got game Strat.....unfortunately your arrogance ruins any chance you have of being respected in these forums by most , not all of your peers....

But then again, if your ego needs that fix, go back to the zone and wail on some noobs....

unless you want to teach your greatness.....why don't you shut YOUR mouth up

StrategicKingMi · July 2, 2002, 21:04

The more you post about civ2 Ming, the more it is evident you dont know anything about the game.
If your apolytoners are truely great players then THEY can win at any settings right,.........RIGHT???????????
sO COME ON, PROVE ME WRONG.....I AM ON THE ZONE RIGHT NOW, JUST SIGN ON AND SEND ME A NOTE AND I WILL HUMILIATE ANY OF YOU AT 2 X 2 KING....
Then, after the beating ends with you saying, please Strate, no more...I LOSE... Then , maybe, just MAYBE.... you might learn something and learn how to play the game right so next game we play might be real good.
Cause you see, In Civ, it aint winning or losing that is important, it is how you win and why you lose and improving (if possible) next game.

Flatlander Fox · July 2, 2002, 21:20

HEY, if you are in the zone, WTF is your damn name?

I'm always up for an a$$ kicking... But since I'll be autosaving, then I can dissect your strats...

War4ever · July 2, 2002, 21:26

it takes a week to play with strat....each turn he needs to load the map

Flatlander Fox · July 2, 2002, 21:34

I came, I saw, and I didn't see you... Too bad...

P.S. To me, a good player is one who doesn't have to explain how good he is when given the opportunity...

rah · July 2, 2002, 21:42

Quote:

Originally posted by War4ever
The greatest players adapt to their situation as it unfolds.... i never hear a detailed description about what to do if your opponent is right on your throat....

You have played enough civ to realize that by now....You don't always get the land/huts/breaks you need to beat the top players.....

it is true great players over come these odds.... but then again, do you really think your going to march those 1mp caravans up to my ciites and i am not going to destroy them......

And who's to say i won't be doing the same to you .....

You got game Strat.....unfortunately your arrogance ruins any chance you have of being respected in these forums by most , not all of your peers....

well said, kinda sums up my thoughts.

I automatically chuckle when ANYBODY claims they're gonna win every game. It means they quit and don't count it as a lose when things don't go their way. Or they just live in fantasy land. Which is it for you Strat?

Just curious Strat, (because i do have some respect for your abilities), what size maps (and continent sizes) does your master strat work best on, and which ones does it work the least. Because I know on small maps with large land masses, that getting 900 from 6 caravans real early in the game is quite difficult. (unless you have a trading whore) Most people won't allow caravans to wander up to their cities uncontested. And untill you have enough cities there aren't that many supply/demand matches early on.

RAH

And before you beat your chest and lay a challange on me. As much as I'd like to accomodate you, I have given up playing with analy slow players. It kinda sucks all the fun out of the game.

Alexander's Horse · July 2, 2002, 21:50

On 1x1x deity I don't find the trade thing as powerful. The improvements in productivity are not as eye popping.

StrategicKingMi · July 2, 2002, 22:20

I never said I won every game. In fact I just lost to Atawa. 7 times my ships attacked (before navigation and no lighthouse) and 6 times I lost! 3 times to a dead red ship! Quit cause I was tired of fighting bad land, bad hut and hiddious luck.
But this entire thread was inspired by a game with Kingus. It was virtually dead even through trade. But then he made all the mistakes I listed above such as not trading enough, science rate way to high, he built sun tzus and no city improvements and went communism after building statue. Alll this lead to a monsterous blow out. In the end I was 3 times his size. I produced a natural 3000 gold a turn in fundy to his 600 in communism.
The dramatic difference was do to all the 4 reasons I listed.
My hope is, that next time when land and huts are even, with anyone I play, they play right and dont make the same mistakes I see time and time again.
My favorite settings are 60 x 60 boards with no lighthouse, as the one who builds the lighthouse on a smaller map like this, will win most games..80% if they follow classic lighthouse strategies.

I dont like all 1 cont boards as they pretty much eliminate much of the naval tactics that , later on in the game , is where alot of the excitment of the game comes from and they allow for a great amount of luck. 1 wandering horseman can take 2 or 3 citys in one turn or with all thoose huts the game almost invariably will come down to luck between somewhat even players.
Plus, if you ever look at an all 1 cont board, the starting positions almost never are equal.
My zone name is strategicking flatlander.
I am not that slow of a player rah. I do play slowwer the more turns that go bye however since there is alot more to do.

ShawnH9999 · July 2, 2002, 22:22

Hello all, Why all the hostileties. Ive Always considered my self being pretty good. And would put up a good fight for any 2x2 king wana be.

. Opps there i go bashing. Just want to say Hi to everyone. I still reconize a few of the names here. My gameleague name was shawn9999, but its been a couple years since ive been active. If anyone is up for a game 2x2 or other just icq me 163609770 or email me at shawn9999@mail.com. Anybody else hate civ3 as much as me

.

StrategicKingMi · July 2, 2002, 22:27

On 1 x 1 deity, trading is way more powerfull. Trade payoffs are not halved because the city is producing half the trade as on 2 x 2. Its something like 2/3 to 3/4 the payoff of 2 x 2. Also, that extra trade bonus will help inmesearably in keeping citys happy.

DrFell · July 2, 2002, 22:31

Quote:

Originally posted by StrategicKingMi
I never said I won every game. In fact I just lost to Atawa. 7 times my ships attacked (before navigation and no lighthouse) and 6 times I lost! 3 times to a dead red ship! Quit cause I was tired of fighting bad land, bad hut and hiddious luck.

Lol, and you lost a game because of a few unlucky ship combats? You come up with worse excuses than markusf...

Shawn, civ3 bashing is a bit of a hobby for some people round here

StrategicKingMi · July 2, 2002, 22:32

Warforever, did you just accuse me of cheating...?????

" it takes a week to play with strat....each turn he needs to load the map"

thats a low blow man.. I never have cheated anyone so please watch what you say.

atawa · July 2, 2002, 22:37

Quote:

Originally posted by rah
Just curious Strat, (because i do have some respect for your abilities), what size maps (and continent sizes) does your master strat work best on, and which ones does it work the least.

From 50*60, off course a map with many islands is best.

In 2x2x king I've used it to get magalons in 1850bc

Quote:

Most people won't allow caravans to wander up to their cities uncontested. And untill you have enough cities there aren't that many supply/demand matches early on.

This is called diplomacy.....

Alexander's Horse · July 2, 2002, 22:39

2x2x King? We really need a vomit smilie.

atawa · July 2, 2002, 22:43

atawa · July 2, 2002, 22:50

Quote:

Originally posted by Ming
not just the pinball version of civ called 2 x2 king...

Come on Ming, you play with very small maps with lots of mountains.

And then you play 2x prod so its ridiculously easy to defend yourself. (In how many of your games do you need more then pikeman and cats?)

This is as far from the original game as 2x2x king.

Reason why most of you players here think 2x2x is too slow is becouse you dont appriciate the more complex strategic planning.

(Or cant handle it

)

Alexander's Horse · July 2, 2002, 22:52

Quote:

Originally posted by StrategicKingMi
On 1 x 1 deity, trading is way more powerfull. Trade payoffs are not halved because the city is producing half the trade as on 2 x 2. Its something like 2/3 to 3/4 the payoff of 2 x 2. Also, that extra trade bonus will help inmesearably in keeping citys happy.

Trade is very powerful and I often do without happy wonders but it does take a lot longer to build up critical mass in 1x1x deity.

Also if you're duelling the build units or caras trade off can be very difficult.

Toss in raging hoardes for the barbs and a lot of this trade theory goes out the window.

ShawnH9999 · July 2, 2002, 22:54

anybody up for a game tonight?

Tuberski · July 2, 2002, 22:55

Quote:

Originally posted by atawa

Reason why most of you players here think 2x2x is too slow is becouse you dont appriciate the more complex strategic planning.

(Or cant handle it

)

OR, it could be the fact they can add 2 and 2 without a calculator.........

rah · July 2, 2002, 23:07

Quote:

Originally posted by atawa
This is called diplomacy.....

sorry have to laugh at that one,
In our games diplomacy (on it's best day) consists of
"back off or die mother******"
"aww screw it, DIE"

No trade whores here.

And strat, 60x60 maps are considered gigantic, not small.
And I've never seen a horse take two or three cities. Anyone that leaves a city undefended than whines about losing it, isn't getting any sympathy from me.

one hourse taking two or three cities

We're obviously talking about two totally different gaming experiences here. To each his own.

RAH

War4ever · July 2, 2002, 23:18

Personally anything other than x1x1 distorts the game to some degree....

but i enjoy playing with some certain mates and for me that is at least half the experience....

but like Rah said, if x2x2 floats your boat...don't sink it on my accord

StrategicKingMi · July 2, 2002, 23:28

In 2 x 2 king, most players do not garrision every city. 2 or 3 citys on a river early in the game and enemy horse starts turn on that river and *poof* there goes thoose citys.
Since when is explaining a lose whinning about it? There are always reasons, if someone out plays me, ill be the first to give cudos.....

War4ever · July 2, 2002, 23:31

that is also because you play with no barb settings...and leaving your cities undefended...yeah no doubt you like to play on islands.....