Mini Tourney IV - Babylon and On

[Velociryx]

'k folks, as promised...here's another crack at a good ol' fashioned slugfest. I have no idea how this is gonna shake out, but here's the scoop!

The year is 1570AD, and the smallish nation of Babylonia has only recently begun to step onto the world stage.

You are in the heart of the Industrial Age, and your seven opponents (Japan, China, USA, France, Germany, Russia, and India are all well into the Modern Age. Some of your rivals are even constructing the Manhattan Project. Babylon is home to exactly one Wonder of the World...The Colassus, and has yet to have her Golden Age.

You have a small, devensive oriented standing army (Riflemen, at the ready to be upgraded as soon as funds are available), and are blessed with an excess of Spices to export. Ten cities, a basic rail network connecting all, and a budding industry and aspirations of greatness.

You are also in dead last place on the charts, and not even your cultural standing is enviable. You are, in short, the smallest dog on the block.

All of your rivals have ROP's with each other, and all save Japan are on friendly terms with you, though at this point, Babylon has not engaged in any entangling alliances. You are technologically backwards, it's true, but your sister nations seem willing and eager to trade technology for your rare and wonderful spices, and you have other resources besides....Iron, Rubber, and Coal, can all be found within your borders.

The Gods have truly smiled on fair Babylon, and given you all the basic resources you will need to emerge as a world power, with a bit of luck, perserverance, and dogged determination.

It took a lot of restarting to get a map I was happy with....spent lots of time exploring the maps with my settler and worker till I found us something that was big enough to spread out on, and small enough to ensure we were alone, so I could develop in isolation.

I did wind up trading for a handful of techs (generally as part of a package deal for the Spice we have in abundance, and only once we hit the Industrial Era), but for the most part, the techs we have right now were researched by our glorious nation. We may be a bit behind, but we've gotten where we are today all on our own, and have much to be proud of.

I left the map largely intact...in its pristine form. Minimal forest has been clearcut to give each player as much flexibility as I possibly could. Aside from sending out a handful of Galleys in the Ancient Age to make contact and trade our Spice, we have not left our island home.

We have a small, professional army (all veterans), no navy at all (all our galleys were decomissioned centuries ago), and a well developed infrastructure, given our current level of technology. There is room on the island for a few more cities, but I intentionally did not build them, so as not to cramp anybody's playstyle. Many of the cities are four tiles apart tho...slighly closer than some would prefer, I realize, but given the size of our homeland, I though that was a reasonable compromise.

I've had a lot of fun getting us to this point, and look forward to seeing what happens from here.

All victory conditions have been disabled, by the way, save for conquest and domination. The AI can't cheese it's way out of the trap that Mighty Babylon has laid....

-=Vel=-

[King of Rasslin]

They are all in the modern era? If you aren't at least the #4 civ by that point your chances of winning are slim. I could probably ascend to #1, but I'm not bad enough to destroy them all. I wonder who will be first to beat this.

[alva]

ok, i'll give it a go soon
btw what level ?

[FrustratedPoet]

I assume this is Monarch level, which is one above what I usually play, but I'll give it a go anyway.

Since you haven't posted in the Candle'Bre forum for what seems like months I may as well see what you've been up to, mate.

[FrustratedPoet]

Oh ... OK, it's on Emperor level.

I'm gonna get my butt kicked.

It'll be fun, though.

[Velociryx]

Hasn't been quite THAT long, Brother Stoo! But yes, this cursed writer's block has dragged on for far longer than I had imagined.... Still plugging away at it though....the next iteration of the Societal Model is coming together....just....more slowly than I'd have liked.....

Good luck and Godspeed on the game, and no worries, CB is alive and well....

-=Vel=-

[Velociryx]

Other random notes:

1) We are currently a Democracy....not so good for warring, but the faster workers were a godsend!

2) The reason we're lowest on the score chart is not really indicative of our true potential, but indicative of the fact that until we got our hands on Electricity, we were unable to irrigate a single tile of terrain (no rivers or lakes anywhere on our island)--that's another reason the forest is largely intact...no real gain in clear cutting it. Thus, our very largest city was size six, and many were frozen in the 2-4 range. Only recently (last twenty turns or so), have our cities begun to really flourish, thanks both due to the emerging rail network and our new ability to irrigate!

3) We DID try once to leave our island home. The island to our northeast was only sparsely populated, and it would have been possible to squeeze one more city on it. We tried, but lost a Galley, settler, and one of our noble Spearmen to the cruel sea....

4) We're last, but we're not all THAT far behind our rivals. With spice to trade, we could probably zoom into the Modern era with minimal difficulty, BUT...where warring is concerned, we'll need to build everything from the ground up. Our defense forces are good enough to hold the island (especially now that all our cities are connected), but laughable in terms of actually TAKING an enemy city.

5) The age of horse has come and gone, but if we wanted to build any Cav for any purpose, we'd need to trade for horses...we don't have any!

6) Raging Barbs SUCK!

7) Bowmen are quite good at handing Barbs their butts.

8) We have embassies established with all our rivals.

In terms of contacts, the Chinese found us, and shortly thereafter, we found Russia, and then made contact with the rest of the world shortly thereafter (a busy trio of galleys!) We were about half an age behind in tech at that point, but some spice trading helped rake in enough cash so we could really start cranking out the research!

Most of the game, I persued a simple "tech following" strategy. Kept my research pegged high enough to be profitable for us, and would research the cheapest tech available, in terms of turns to discovery (veered from this a couple of times, to get to The Republic, for example).

Didn't really need my iron...never made any swordsmen, pike, knights, or any of that (our Army went straight from Spearmen to Riflemen), so wound up trading it away too. Valuable stuff in the Ancient and Medieval Era....the AI's will pay an arm and a leg for the stuff!

I'll start up a spoiler's and strategy thread in a bit!

-=Vel=-

[Arrian]

With good trading and tech following, one could possibly eek out a SS win, as I've heard the AI doesn't really go all-out for it, even when it has the tech.

The UN could cause problems - gotta figure out who to vote for in order to keep the balance.

-Arrian

[Velociryx]

Ahhh, no worries Brother Arrian! Both of those have been disabled. None of that pesky UN stuff to worry 'bout....

-=Vel=-

[Arrian]

Ahh. UN and SS off. Culture not really an option either. So it's dominate the world or die trying.

I assume this was born of the mini tourney iii thread, which I have studiously avoided (wanna know why I never got around to playing that one? Check out the "Ultimate Power" thread in this forum).

-Arrian

[Velociryx]

Other notes (cos I keep remembering details you might find useful!)

The terrain of our homeland is such that the southern portion is our industrial heartland (and we've got a city nestled in a beautiful valley in the southwest that stands to be an absolute BEAST where productivity is concerned! Two cow tiles for massive food influx, and lossa mountains to mine for production), while the northern section is our financial stronghold (relying mostly on sea tiles for growth).

Because we are an island nation, I thought it important that all our cities be able to contribute materially to any war effort we enter into....thus, you'll note that barracks have been constructed everywhere. Well, okay, that's not entirely true, but only cos I haven't gotten around to putting the last barracks in on the northern most city....probably won't, since it's got cheesy production anyway, but we've got 9 Barracks. Do we need them? Probably not. Then again, if we wanna build an attack force from the ground up, having nine places to crank out veteran troops is better than having, say...three or so.

I *did* build the FP on the island, figuring that if we went-a-conquering later on, we could burn a Leader to relocate the palace....for the moment, we have blessedly little corruption.

-=Vel=-

[Velociryx]

Yep! We were talking about how MTiii was cool, but we didn't really get a chance to see the AI with lots of time to build in the modern age....so, I thought I'd develop us to a point in isolation, not trading for any techs, until I got "Replaceable Parts" and then see if we can hand it to them.

As it stands, the AI has been at least half an age ahead in tech for the better part of the game (researching all on our own, there's just no way we can keep pace with seven rampantly trading AI's....one of the rare times you'll hear me applauding the min/max discovery rates! LOL...they'd be THROUGH the tech tree by now, I think, and I'd prolly still be in the middle ages!), so it should be a much more intersting challenge....I just hope I haven't made it...erm...too interesting!

And I just read the Ultimate Power thread! That's one rockin' game you've got there!

-=Vel=-

[jshelr]

Thank Vel. I'll give it a go. Sounds like you've been overly influenced by "So Cold of the Map Generator" though.

[Velociryx]

Nahhh, you should see some of the maps I didn't keep! We've got it goooood by comparison!

-=Vel=-

[Arrian]

The no irrigation things sounds harsh, Vel. I woulda at least found a map that gave us a river... yeesh. But nothing compares to Aeson's iceberg.

-Arrian

thoughts, comments on the GoUP?

[Velociryx]

No irrigation made things pretty tough on us, primarily in terms of limiting the total size of our economy, by putting firm brakes on our total growth. With only ten cities, all of them hobbled at some point by limits to growth, our economy stayed small, while everybody else's kept getting bigger. That, coupled with my insistance to research all our own techs, ensured that we'd be sailing into the modern age last, and with the smallest economy...which is, as I understood our mtiii discussions, part of the coolio challenge everybody was looking for....let the AI have plenty of time to build up and such.

The good thing though, is that everybody will be able to terraform "their way"....since we've only recently gained the ability to irrigate, not much has been done yet (only where the rails ran through...I irrigated as I built the rail line).

The only thing I can imagine that'd be worse than an iceberg start would be a desert start, with no flood plains. UGH....But yes, Aeson has given us a one of a kind game....that was awesome!

And speaking of one of a kind games....your Game of Ultimate Power is....wow...what can I say?! I don't believe I've ever gotten my economy quite so large! That was heinous! And TWELVE leaders! Sheesh!

One question for you...how do you go about keeping your elites who have already spawned GL's separated from your elites who have not? Or, do you bother separating them at all? I'm searching for a quick, convenient way to do just that, but haven't stumbled across anything yet.

A MOST impressive, crushingly dominating game! And aptly named, too!

-=Vel=-

[Arrian]

Vel,

The first elite + leader unit went straight into my archer army. The next couple were horsies, and they were simply fortified behind the lines until I could upgrade them to Riders. A swordsman generated one... and I honored him by disbanding him for shields, heh. Riders that generated GLs became Cavs eventually and Cavs got disbanded for shields.

Basically, the method of separation is to immediately fortify the unit. Then, proceed with the attack, take the enemy town, and move the elite + leader in and re-fortify it. There it stays until upgrading.

Still, I managed to miss a Cavalry elite + leader toward the end. I just got careless.

-Arrian

[Velociryx]

Very cool....thank ya! And, if this game turns out to be a fairly popular one, I've got some other ideas in my head...more on that later tho, everybody may hate it....

-=Vel=-

[DaveV]

No offense, Vel, but I think you missed one more ingredient that could have made this scenario more interesting: removing all coal from the map.

Digression: I think what most hard-core players enjoy most in a 4x game is that period where the game is "in the balance". The usual arc in a game against the AI is that the human starts out way behind due to AI production advantages, claws his way back into the game, then gains an advantage and mops up. The latter stage, when the game outcome is no longer in doubt but the computer doesn't recognize that the human has won, is when I tend to abandon my games. I don't find much fun in running up a huge score, or slaughtering outdated defenders with the latest super-unit. No, it's the mid-game stage, where your empire's fate hangs on your decisions, when the game is at its peak.

A common theme in a lot of posts I've read is that the turning point of a lot of games (the transition from the mid-game to the end-game) comes right at the time of the discovery of railroad. The human's hordes of workers quickly lay tracks to provide instant movement across the empire, and to boost production significantly. Who cares if the AI is attacking with a hundred infantry if you can teleport your stack of artillery to the point of attack and decimate them with bombardment? Take away the railroad and you suddenly have to make some hard decisions about allocation of forces.

Removing coal wouldn't take away any units, and the only building it would eliminate is the iron works. Granted, it would slow down the endgame, but I contend that that wouldn't be a bad thing.

[Velociryx]

Hmmm...an excellent point, Dave! In my defense though, I didn't modify the map at all with the editor....I just scouted the area in advance to see how big the landmass was, and make sure we were alone!

I would say that on this particular map though, the presence of a rail network will not play as large a role as they might otherwise, for a couple of reasons:

First, it's a 'pelago map. We're alone on our island, and if we wanna get anywhere, we're going to need a navy to transport our stuff (which is kinna cool in this game...navy will play a significant role! ).

I totally agree with you where defense of the homeland is concerned. Essentially, I could leave every city I have undefended, keep my whole defensive army in a single stack on the rail line, and simply move where the threats are. No real strategy there. But, the clock is ticking. Already it's 1570AD, and we have no army with which to launch an attack. Domination/Conquest is the only way to win, so there won't be time to get fancy with hordes of slave labor (and we only have ten workers in Babylon).

Second, and in this case, I'm not sure if it'll make it easier on us or harder, but again, being a 'pelago map, it seems that we might be able to kill off civs via "death by a thousand cuts" (take an island, sue for peace...they're weaker, we're stronger). Repeat, nibbling away at them constantly. And, because they are so spread out, they'll likely be downright horrible at projecting their power and protecting their fringe cities....the homelands will be a different matter of course, but then, the homelands are probably railed, meaning they can be conquered quickly.....hmmm....don't know. If I was going to do it again, I might go into the editor after all and tweak it...that sounds like it'd be an interesting modification....

-=Vel=-

[Velociryx]

Random edit: In looking back over an earlier post, I said that I left the map largely in its pristine form....the one significant modification I DID make was to seed the southern reaches of the kingdom (the tundra section) with forest....at least it's producing a bit of something now!)

-=Vel=-

[Prince]

Emperor? No thanks. I'll stick to regent

[Chemical Ollie]

Aaarrgghhh! This is normally the time when I decide a game is lost and quit to start a new one, alternatively play on and lose by space race. I am still in the late stage of minitour3, then I will travel abroad next week, so I think I jump on this one. Nice initiative though, Vel. Seems like a real challenge!

[nbarclay]

I'm not sure when I might be in a mood to tackle this one. Normally, the whole goal of my early game is to AVOID getting in the kind of position Vel stuck us in here. I do know that since I'm running the July tourney, I need to make that my first priority so I don't get excluded from my own spoilers thread. After that, I'll have to choose between this, the CivFanatics GOTM (which, on a large map if I recall correctly, may take a bit longer than the average tourney), and whatever else comes up in the meantime.

Nathan

[punkbass2000]

Damn, these things are coming out way faster than I can play'em .

[DeepO]

*bump*

I lost this thread, took me a while to find it again. I'll give it a try...
DeepO

[Txurce]

The ace in the hole for the Babs in this game are the settings. If the AI has to win via domination, Babylon can take its sweet time building its war machine. Its biggest enemy is probably the clock, but 1570 should be more than long enough.

Vel, this is an excellent way to generate a WW3 situation. Thanks for putting in the effort to get it there.

[Velociryx]

You're welcome bud! I enjoyed getting it to that point....some interesting self-imposed restrictions led to the current situation....I'm diggin' it, but currently a bit distracted from finishing this game out....something about a Civ3 Candle'Bre mod....

-=Vel=-

[jshelr]

sorry

[DeepO]

erm, jshelr, wrong thread: this should be in the spoiler/strat thread....

DeepO