What preparation is needed before switching to Dem. Gov't???

[Bloody Monk]

Originally posted by Scouse Gits


I think your engineers are better employed by putting the roads on the silk and the other gold mountain. As I mentioned on the last page...go Demo...sooner not later

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SG(2)

Scousers--
I apologize for the tardiness of my response. You have been so helpful and generous with your time in commenting and deserved a quicker response. It was a health thing and I had no other choice....

I have been reminding myself for a long time to road the specials in the Cap as a prelude to Railroad and the extra shields. All this time I relied on the manual/pedia which says roads increase arrows on grass, plains, and desert, only. Must pay more attention. Simply clicking the worker on and off shows the extra arrow. Thanks for pointing this out to me.

Likewise, SG1, you are right; I completely missed the point about the added sheaf if the food van is from a different, new, city. Learning so much from this thread!! And thanks for expanding on letting the camels roll; I thought that was what you meant but wanted to be sure, and the "dirthole #1 to dirthole #2" phrase is priceless. Would I be right in thinking the new heads should become Eins???

I agree that there will be a point of diminishing returns and will switch to Demo when I' ve built a few aquaducts. There are 10 cities at size6 or higher, and 18 size5. That's a lot of cash. Or do you think I should switch now??

[Bloody Monk]

Originally posted by Scouse Gits
BM

Yes, I echo SG[1]'s sentiments … you do have a good game for 1360! I advise changing to a Democracy in a couple of turns. Your empire won't fall over and whilst your initial gold will be less than the present fundy government just watch it rise when those small cities double/treble in size after celebrating!

Your target should be an advance a turn coming from the science rate and ruthless trading. My plan would be:

1) Use the last turns in fundy to bring home the troops out of town. Start disbanding some, as you don't want to be crippled with shield support in demo. This is a quick way to hurry up your white goods and to prepare the 12 freights needed for CfC.

***** Have done some of this but can see your point and will plan for more disbanding.

2) You have no military threat so you can forget about offensive units. Don't obtain any Babylonian cities, as you want them all to set up your trade sleaze. Corporation is coming in and that increases trade bonuses by 50%. Your main objective will be to ship demanded commodities to the green cities from your main metropolises.

***** Yeah, that's my thinking as well...what do you think of building some nearby cities so I can slip in a few Engineers to build them some roads (for my trade bonuses) and later for airports, to speed up delivery???

3) Take a long look at the geography of the map. Build up some of the more promising cities on different continents … think of them as regional capitals. (Athens …mine wheat to silk, and Kazakhstan - 2 whales - on the former Russian mainland appear possible candidates.) The idea is to have some fat cities for some inter-continental trading. After Corporation, Automobile is the next major science target, and as soon as you have it bang in the Superhighways for the larger cities.

***** Very good, thanks for reminding me to max arrows

4) To set up the trading network you need to set up an efficient transport system, which utilises ferries, ship chains and railways. Your aim is to ship freight in one turn from one end of the map of the other.

***** Need more transports....

5) The Capital Treat your palace city as if playing an OCC game. All the science wonders are here so no expense is spared in improving it. The missing roads on the silk and one gold mountain should be completed immediately. You want freight delivered from here in one turn because sometimes no supply commodity will become vacant if freight is in transit. Every turn the capital has goods to supply rush build a freight. A useful ploy is to have some nearby cities building low value units like horseman to run into the capital and disband so there are some shields in the production box each turn.

I'm glad Mrs. Mongol's Gold has proved so much fun.

***** Plus, I have learned a lot, too...thanks, guys....

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SG(2)

I know it is not the usual practice to answer from w/in the quote, but I thought the responses would link up better this way w/ the points in your post. I really appreciate all your help.

[Scouse Gits]

Just keep on enjoying it - that is the key, and of course, you are most welcome.

SG[1]

[Scouse Gits]

BM

I have started to play your game from the posted save file. You will have NO problems changing into a Democracy. You did so much good preparation that the population exploded with some years of celebration...now over 67 million, plus receiving three techs per turn

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SG(2)

[Scouse Gits]

The Holy Grail - that third tech/turn - I have yet to see it -- Well done (2) when's the landing early Eighteenth or even earlier?

SG[1]

[Bloody Monk]

Originally posted by Scouse Gits
BM

I have started to play your game from the posted save file. You will have NO problems changing into a Democracy. You did so much good preparation that the population exploded with some years of celebration...now over 67 million, plus receiving three techs per turn

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SG(2)

Thanks for the followup and the nice nod about prep work. Just shows how cool these boards are that, with a few questions, a very workable plan can be made. Thanks for all the help.

So, in what year did you revolt...and when did you reach 67million?? Three techs!!! Very impressive. How did you manage that??

As for me, I have been sidelined. When I can get back to the game, my plan is to stay in Fundy at least until I can build CfC. Then, let the tradefest begin....

[Scouse Gits]

[1] ... have launched what I believe is the fastest ship (33-8-8-1-1-1) the landing will be in 1625

BM
Became a Democracy in 1420 and I regret not doing it sooner Population at launch in 1620 was 86.5 million.

I will post a game file and basic log of progress with some notes shortly.

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SG(2)

[Scouse Gits]

Wow! Well done (2)

SG[1]

[Bloody Monk]

Like [1] said...WOW!!!!

I look forward to studing your log and .sav file. I am guessing that it will be the basis of a good conclusion to this thread...Using Demo to jump to AC.

It looks like you must have gotten ~28 techs in about 16 turns...so, settings at 2 turns plus many deliveries to get the multiples each turn??? Also, I'm guessing that compared to my 'pigout on improvements' approach, you probably kept it more lean, choosing freights, right??? 1625!!!! Good show!!

[Scouse Gits]

I built many improvements but was very selective in doing this. I targeted a few cities for "no expense spared" status and let them grow. Inter city trade blossomed when superhighways were rushed in all of them - this nearly broke my treasury! Then came Liraries and Universities which meant 3 advances a turn was possible.

I am at 1622...and must do some work...so I will post the full story tomorrow.

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SG(2)

[Scouse Gits]

NOTES & LOG

1) Science Tech goals were - in order: Automobile (superhighways), Computers (Seti) and Space Flight (Apollo). With the rich empire I had inherited from Bloody Monk a tech a turn would be easy, two a turn looked a good prospect with aggressive trading and three a turn would be possible with extensive library/university construction funded by trading gold.

2) Wonders In order: CfC Easier to maintain celebrations with a lower luxury rate. Seti for the science boost. Apollo for the spaceship. Anything else was cosmetic after launching.

3) Cities A handful of cities were chosen for development to super trade centres. At least one was on each major continent. The reasoning was to maximise trade bonuses. For example: demanded gold from No Decorum to St. Petersburg 1749g, and that was after trade bonuses had been reduced by flight.

4) New Cities The time had passed when cities were founded because of their growth potential or access to specials. New developments fell into two categories:
a) Ferry Ports To connect two continents/islands with a shuttle service for trade. The aim was to transport freight around the world in one turn between any two places.
b) Satellite Cities To provide a particular function or service. As long as a super trade centre was producing a useful commodity freight was rushed every turn. The suburbs would produce low value units like horsemen or dips to disband in the main city to rush the next caravan or improvement.

5) Trade This underpinned the whole strategy. Early trade was with the Babylonians before the super cities kicked into action. Attention was also focussed on maximising the ongoing trade routes with the cities close to the capital with road and rail connections.

6) Spaceship This was managed in one turn as a number of freights had been stored. There is no penalty for changing production from a wonder to a spaceship part. Many cities started to build a wonder and had the production box boosted by freight (to help build the wonder). Production was then swapped to spaceship building and completed by purchase.

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1360 - Pop = 10.3m. Renamed some cities so I knew where to find them
1380 - 1400 played in fundy to bring back troops and arrange transport infrastructure. This included setting up some ferry ports to ease the transport of freight.
1400 - Corporation…big trade boost as all caravans became freights.
1420 - Democracy established; North Ferry founded.
1440 - Genetic Engineering; Pop = 11.6m
1460 - Refining; CfC; Pop = 16.1m
1480 - Conscription; Pop = 21.3m; New Terminal founded
1500 - Combustion; Pop = 26.5m
1510 - Atomic Theory and Electricity; Pop = 32.3m; Chez Moi founded near Nineveh
1520 - Electronics and Steel; Posh Suburb founded; Pop = 38.1m
1530 - Automobile and Mass Production; Pop = 43.9m
1540 - Nuclear Fission and Chivalry; Pop = 49.1m
1550 - Leadership and Tactics; Pop = 55.7m
1560 - Machine Tools and Nuclear Power; Pop = 60.4m
1570 - Miniaturisation, Computers and The Laser Pop = 63.7m; Seti founded, so the wonder can be built in the newest city. Next turn when completed every other city will benefit from the extra beakers.
1580 - Seti Program; Flight, Mobile Warfare and Radio; Pop = 67.2m
1590 - Advanced Flight, Rocketry and Robotics; Pop = 72.5m
1600 - Space Flight, Plastics and Superconductor; Pop = 78m
1610 - Refrigeration and Fusion Power; Apollo Program; Spaceship completed (33-8-8-1-1-1); Pop = 82.8m
1620 - Recycling and Combined Arms; Pop = 86.5m; LAUNCHED to arrive in 1625.
1621 - Stealth; Women's Suffrage and Eiffel Tower; Pop = 90.6m
1622 - Environmentalism; Babylonians steal Space Flight! Pop = 95.4m; Babs declare War! Ellipi bribed.
1623 - Amphibious Warfare; Ashur & Nineveh captured; Pop = 101.2m
1624 - Fundamentalism; Manhattan Project and Shakespeare's Theatre; Pop = 106.3m
1625 - Landed AC.

Civ Rating 404%, Score 3110.

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SG(2)

[Xin Yu]

SG(2): great game! Should let those who believe that FUNDY is better than DEM to try and see if they can launch in merely 20 turns.

[Bloody Monk]

SG(2)

Excellent finish!!! It is both elegant and devastating as a reposit to any who felt it necessary (like me ) to stay in Fundy for the taxes as a means of buying "needed" improvements. This exposes in me a tragic lack of imagination. That first turn in Demo, before the celebrations kick in, looks so lame...90% loss of taxes, big hit in shields due to support. And you showed that to be no big deal.

Before you reported you were going to play the game out, I had started down the last leg but decided to wait and see what you did and halted at the end of 1440, still building improvements...mostly aquaducts and libraries. I thought I would be ready to revolt in 1460 or 1500. But in that time your pop more than doubled, and you probably got better deliveries to boot. Great game!!

[Scouse Gits]

I say again - WOW!

If anyone has not yet gone through that log in detail - I urge you to do so now! BM had it down when he used the term 'elegant' - it is a beautiful piece of work - I bow my head to a master ...

* Scouse Git[1] goes off muttering about celebrating Fundamentalism and three techs a turn *

SG[1]

[Scouse Gits]

Thanks guys

BM Have just started a new Seccession Game in 2.42 over on the General Forum...The Sticky Mouse Senate My first turns at this one were not exactly elegant... You are welcome to join us.

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SG(2)

[Bloody Monk]

Looks like a pretty good start to me. Beginnings are always exciting to me; so much to be revealed. And I like to wander a bit, pop some huts, and see what's what before founding the first city, so, I probably would have done about the same...which means, of course, that I like what you did...

I'll follow along with your game. Roster looks full already. Good luck