Unsolved Mysteries of Civ2

techumseh · July 7, 2002, 15:04

This is a thread dedicated to the great unsolved mysteries of Civ2. If you have one, post it here. If you have the answer, here is where you can reveal the secret.

My contribution: I've always wondered, when setting the special rules for a scenario, what does 'Special WWII-only AI' actually do?

Mr. Oobir · July 7, 2002, 16:27

A related question: Why didn't they take that option out before they shipped the game?

rmsharpe · July 7, 2002, 16:58

What were they going to use Plumbing for?

The ANZAC · July 7, 2002, 18:06

My question: What are the Arabs and Incas doing in the rules.txt and were they going to be implemented.

Techumseh: The WW2 AI has something to do with the WW2 scenario that came with Civ2 and ensured some status of treaties. If you engage it in a normal scenario, you'll probably crash it

St Leo · July 7, 2002, 18:49

I've always wondered, when setting the special rules for a scenario, what does 'Special WWII-only AI' actually do?

It makes the Axis tribe stay at war with the Allied tribe

What were they going to use Plumbing for?

The Aqueduct.

What are the Arabs and Incas doing in the rules.txt and were they going to be implemented.

They are spares that will work if you sub them in for an existing tribe because they also have definitions in city.txt.

Case · July 7, 2002, 19:17

How much money did Microprose really make as a result of their decision to chop the MP code out of Civ 2 before it was released?

WarVoid · July 7, 2002, 19:37

Quote:

Originally posted by Case
How much money did Microprose really make as a result of their decision to chop the MP code out of Civ 2 before it was released?

A sh!tload.

Imperial-Markus · July 8, 2002, 03:54

When you conquer a city which has only one inhabitant left it usually gets destroyed but in my last game I captured three cities with only one citizen left but all of them stayed? So my question is: Does anybody know when a city with 1 person left get destroyed by conquering and when not?

techumseh · July 8, 2002, 10:08

If it has city walls?

Imperial-Markus · July 8, 2002, 12:16

Hmmm that might be the trick but sometimes when I take a city the walls get destroyed and the city also. Do the computer choose randomly which improvements get destroyed?

Marquis de Sodaq · July 8, 2002, 12:31

Quote:

Originally posted by Imperial-Markus
Hmmm that might be the trick but sometimes when I take a city the walls get destroyed and the city also. Do the computer choose randomly which improvements get destroyed?

No - SlowThinker tested and found that improvements are clumped in 3 categories, one of which is destroyed upon sacking the city. I can't remember the details, you could search the archives of the CivII Strategy forum, tho...

techumseh · July 8, 2002, 16:02

OK, St. Leo - here's one for you. They say in the manual that you shouldn't use the WWII AI option because it will almost certainly make your game crash. Why is this so?

Mercator · July 8, 2002, 16:20

I've also wondered about that WWII AI thing, there must surely be a way that option can be put to good use in some scenario (apart from that WWII one).

I also just did a little testing with the size-1 cities... I tested it on Deity and Warlord level (using FW). Some with City Walls, some with a Wonder, some with a black citizen, some with a red one, a normal one or a happy one, with a courthouse, marketplace, temple and/or aquaduct. I also tried it with varying degrees of Food Storage. They all disappeared. These were by no means thorough tests, but if difficulty level, happiness, food storage or city improvements would be involved in whether a size-1 city remains or not, it would certainly only modify a random number.

DarthVeda · July 8, 2002, 16:35

This is directly from the complete guide to scenario building:

Quote:

Special WWII Only AI

When the game manual says not to use this one, it's not kidding. You should pretend this option doesn't exist, because there's no way you can use it productively.

The WWII scenario was designed for the most part by a programmer. Unfortunately, in early versions of the scenario, the computer-controlled civilizations did not act like their historical counterparts. To overcome this failing ( and because he could), he wrote a specific set of instructions for the AI in that scenario. Those instructions cannot be applied to any other scenario, and Civilization II is likely to crash if you try it.

Remember, the ww2 scenario was designed before events files, and it probably stipulates that the German and Allied civs stay at war, and where the German civ should send its submarines (ie the atlantic rather than the baltic).

Panda · July 8, 2002, 20:30

It would have been more useful if they'd detailed exactly what those instructions were instead of issuing dire warnings against trying it out. It certainly doesn't crash any scenario I've seen which had this flag enabled.

winterfritz · July 8, 2002, 20:54

I thought the WW2-AI just made all the civs more warlike. I've enabled it in my Roman scenario in an attempt to make the German barbarians more aggressive; is this a bad thing?

ravagon · July 8, 2002, 22:40

I thought I read once that it tweaked the AI for the Atlantic battle ...

?

In any case, I've tried it out in other scenarios, just the playing around kind, and it never caused any crashes.
Whether or not it did, in fact, make a difference, I couldn't really tell. If there was any it was too small a change to reliably quantify.

Mr. Oobir · July 8, 2002, 23:38

Quote:

Originally posted by DarthVeda
Remember, the ww2 scenario was designed before events files, and it probably stipulates that the German and Allied civs stay at war, and where the German civ should send its submarines (ie the atlantic rather than the baltic).

I don't think the option did much about maintaning wars and alliances, because I distinctly remember playing as the French and being offered peace by the Germans on the first or second turn.

DarthVeda · July 9, 2002, 00:46

Yes and the Germans did eventually sue for peace with France.... (or at least the other way around

)

Jacobite1688 · July 9, 2002, 10:28

I have played the WWII scenario MANY MANY times as every possible civ. I have my own set of custom graphics for it and everything. In my experience, even the Allies and the Axis will, sooner or later, offer or be offered peace, depending on their situations. Whatever the flag does, I don’t think it has anything to do with treaties.

techumseh · July 9, 2002, 16:05

So! It is indeed....an Unsolved Mystery of Civ2!

MagyarCrusader · July 9, 2002, 16:28

About the WW2 AI dealy,
I can't remember where I read it, so I may remember it incorrectly, but it ensured the German AI would attack Amsterdam, and I'm sure it did other things too. So basically, Darth's explanation was correct.

About cities being destroyed when they are sized 1 and sometimes not...
I always thought that if you are the liberator of a city (as opposed to 'conquerer' when it displays the message that you've taken a city), and your enemy holds the city at 1 and you take it, it will not be destroyed.

Imperial-Markus · July 9, 2002, 17:11

Yeahh this is it. As you're said it I had a sudden notion that I lost these cities to the AI and recaptured it in the next turn. Think we can say: problem solved next one plz

Well to the "WW2 AI flag": I played this scen very often and I think every time the Axis captured Paris the French sued for peace (Ok this is due to the loss of the city) but also the allies immediately declared war to the French. So perhaps this flag has something to do with it so they wanted to recreate Vichy-France. As in my opinion otherwise it is impossible that two civs go to war at the same time every game. This could also be an explanation why we should not use this flag in scen building I think it is defined when especially the Allies will declare war on France and as in other scen are different civs this could cause the game to crash as the manual stated out.

Henrik · July 9, 2002, 17:24

The game never crashes when that flag is checked, as far as I can tell all it does is make the AI use marines more.

Gothmog · July 9, 2002, 21:34

Quote:

Originally posted by MagyarCrusader
About cities being destroyed when they are sized 1 and sometimes not...
I always thought that if you are the liberator of a city (as opposed to 'conquerer' when it displays the message that you've taken a city), and your enemy holds the city at 1 and you take it, it will not be destroyed.

This has been my theory all along. I wasn't sure whether it always happened that way or that the odds were improved. I'm happy to see someone confirm it.

In the save file, each city has two bits of information about ownership, current owner and previous owner. It uses that to pick between the conquered and liberated messages. One thing I have observed about that is that after some interval of time, the previous owner value becomes the same as the current owner even when ownership stays constant.

Thoddy · July 10, 2002, 11:05

Quote:

Originally posted by techumseh
My contribution: I've always wondered, when setting the special rules for a scenario, what does 'Special WWII-only AI' actually do?

Axis civ gets the whole money of a civ from the first city they capture.

our_man · July 10, 2002, 13:51

I don't believe that's true Thoddy. I think any civilization can get all the money of a civ from the first city they capture if it is on the first turn of any scenario - just another quirky bugto add to the list.

Henrik · July 10, 2002, 14:11

In my experience thats true for all scenarios if the city is taken on the first turn.

EDIT: as our_man allready pointed out it seems

Gothmog · July 11, 2002, 08:38

That's my experience as well. (gettting all of a tribe's money).