August 7, 2002, 09:38
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#61
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Civ4: Colonization Content Editor
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My vote would go towards the English, even though they are expansionists. And since it would be my first (and probably last) adventure with them, Monarch would suffice. The English are truly close to Mapmaking, as they start with both Alphabet and Pottery, so only 2 techs to go to galleys, the Lighthouse etc... Ought to be fun for navy lovers.
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August 7, 2002, 09:48
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#62
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Emperor
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Still a little hazy on who to pick for the 5th AI civ...
While that discussion continues, how about we liven things up a little bit?
Sooo, what have been the historical reasons for naval power:
* Exploration
* Forward projection of military might
* Protection from same
* Establishment / protection of colonies
* Protection of commerce
It seems to me that we would all engage in these activities as a matter of course.
HOWEVER, what if added some goals / constraints?
For instance:
* Exploration race
* Total naval aggression, i.e., you see an AI ship, you must kill it
* Colonial aggression, i.e., you see an AI colony, you must capture or destroy it
* Blockade, i.e., you must blockade at least 1 AI civ
Ideas?
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The greatest delight for man is to inflict defeat on his enemies, to drive them before him, to see those dear to them with their faces bathed in tears, to bestride their horses, to crush in his arms their daughters and wives.
Duas uncias in puncta mortalis est.
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August 7, 2002, 09:55
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#63
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Civ4: Colonization Content Editor
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I'm with Arrian, thumbs up for the Yanks.
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August 7, 2002, 12:34
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#64
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King
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I wouldn't put such tight restrictions on player choices regarding the timing of attacking - i.e, must destroy all AI ships and colonies - that can play havoc with diplomacy / trading and can simply turn the game into continuous warfare.
Catt 
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August 7, 2002, 13:39
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#65
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Deity
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Theseus,
The Americans do really well on these type of maps, trust me. They were my toughest opposition in that French game I just finished. I had a knock-down, drag out war (Knights/Musketeers and eventually Cavalry) with them, and was able to capture 2 cities and raze 2 more. I made no attempt to go after their core.
The "you must kill any AI ship or colony" does translate into continuous war, like Catt said, so I vote no on that.
I have an idea to "spice up" the game somewhat. I say we do something like what was done for AU102: take a random generated map, and tweak it. Have an isolated, unpopulated landmass with a luxury monopoly on it. Finders keepers, losers weepers 
-Arrian
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grog want tank...Grog Want Tank... GROG WANT TANK!
The trick isn't to break some eggs to make an omelette, it's convincing the eggs to break themselves in order to aspire to omelettehood.
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August 7, 2002, 14:07
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#66
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Emperor
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Americans it is.
Great idea on the isolated landmass.
Any volunteers to create the map? It seems like the AU mod is just about done for now.
__________________
The greatest delight for man is to inflict defeat on his enemies, to drive them before him, to see those dear to them with their faces bathed in tears, to bestride their horses, to crush in his arms their daughters and wives.
Duas uncias in puncta mortalis est.
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August 7, 2002, 14:48
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#67
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Firaxis Games Software Engineer
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I'll make the map, if nobody else wants to.
But if somebody has even a small interest in doing it, I would be glad to play without knowing what's in store for us.
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August 7, 2002, 14:51
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#68
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Deity
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I'd make the map too nice Given the power of creation, I wouldn't be able to restrain myself, particularly knowing we're stuck playing such a terrible civ. Plus, the map creator can't really play normally - knowledge of the map is a big deal.
-Arrian
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grog want tank...Grog Want Tank... GROG WANT TANK!
The trick isn't to break some eggs to make an omelette, it's convincing the eggs to break themselves in order to aspire to omelettehood.
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August 7, 2002, 15:18
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#69
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Emperor
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Is there any way we can draw straws?
__________________
The greatest delight for man is to inflict defeat on his enemies, to drive them before him, to see those dear to them with their faces bathed in tears, to bestride their horses, to crush in his arms their daughters and wives.
Duas uncias in puncta mortalis est.
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August 7, 2002, 15:37
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#70
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Civ4: Colonization Content Editor
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What exact map settings do we want? Theseus, can you post precise instructions? I could try to find somebody, who creates a map for us, if it is just a random archipelago map with minor tweaks.
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August 7, 2002, 15:42
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#71
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Firaxis Games Software Engineer
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Would that "somebody" know what to tweak to make the game more exciting?
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August 7, 2002, 15:44
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#72
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Civ4: Colonization Content Editor
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That is why I asked for precise instructions  .
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August 7, 2002, 15:46
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#73
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Firaxis Games Software Engineer
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But if we post precise instructions here, it won't be a surprise any more! 
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August 7, 2002, 15:47
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#74
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Emperor
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SR, I got no clue!!!
Maybe there's someone in Files who likes to create, but not play? Or just doesn't care about knowing the map?
alexman, you hang out some over there, right?
If not, can someone give SR intrustructions?
Thx
__________________
The greatest delight for man is to inflict defeat on his enemies, to drive them before him, to see those dear to them with their faces bathed in tears, to bestride their horses, to crush in his arms their daughters and wives.
Duas uncias in puncta mortalis est.
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August 7, 2002, 15:48
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#75
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Civ4: Colonization Content Editor
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Well, if the only instruction is to have an archipelago map with enough islands, far enough from each other, I would have somebody here who would do it. If it needs "improved strategical knowledge", not.
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August 7, 2002, 15:49
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#76
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Firaxis Games Software Engineer
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OK, I'll do it this time because I have some ideas on what tweaks to add. But thanks for offering, Sir Ralph.
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August 7, 2002, 16:04
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#77
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Firaxis Games Software Engineer
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Vote time:
Hard Monarch map, or easier Emperor?
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August 7, 2002, 16:09
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#78
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Civ4: Colonization Content Editor
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Hard Monarch (I'm on vacation )
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August 7, 2002, 16:18
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#79
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Deity
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Monarch.
Settings: 80% water, normal, temperate, 3 or 4 billion, roaming barbs (I wonder, though, will the island totally fill up with barbs so that you can't even land there pre-marines? If so, is that a bad thing, or a good one?).
I suggest the luxury prize be gems, and the island it's on should only have room for 1 city, with the gems in mountains around the edges... requiring colonies for a while. I see a star-shaped island, with gems out on the arms of the star, and a couple of hills in the middle where you can build a city.
-Arrian
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grog want tank...Grog Want Tank... GROG WANT TANK!
The trick isn't to break some eggs to make an omelette, it's convincing the eggs to break themselves in order to aspire to omelettehood.
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August 7, 2002, 16:19
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#80
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Emperor
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Henry VIII.
(couldn't you make some 'wife' units?)
__________________
The greatest delight for man is to inflict defeat on his enemies, to drive them before him, to see those dear to them with their faces bathed in tears, to bestride their horses, to crush in his arms their daughters and wives.
Duas uncias in puncta mortalis est.
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August 7, 2002, 16:26
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#81
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Emperor
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Arrian,
Thanks for the reminder... I forgot to post this shot this morning.
This is the Philippines, same game.
That stack of horsies is still 11 strong. I think at maximum, there were like 30 horsemen and 10 warriors on that island!
__________________
The greatest delight for man is to inflict defeat on his enemies, to drive them before him, to see those dear to them with their faces bathed in tears, to bestride their horses, to crush in his arms their daughters and wives.
Duas uncias in puncta mortalis est.
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August 7, 2002, 17:13
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#82
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King
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Been away from the computer for awhile - the thread is half-a-page longer than when I left!
Why do we have to create a map? Can't we use a random (with the right settings? If alexman wants to, he can play several thousand years into the game to verify that something wacky hasn't occured in the map generator - would run the risk of having to play a few games and quit, but would be able to play without map knowledge!
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August 7, 2002, 17:22
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#83
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Emperor
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To kick it up a notch, Arrian suggested creating a remote, uninhabited island wiith a monopoly of gems.
__________________
The greatest delight for man is to inflict defeat on his enemies, to drive them before him, to see those dear to them with their faces bathed in tears, to bestride their horses, to crush in his arms their daughters and wives.
Duas uncias in puncta mortalis est.
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August 7, 2002, 17:31
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#84
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King
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Cool  Missed that post.
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August 7, 2002, 19:10
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#85
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Prince
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It may be a good idea to havea killer AI and a regular AI game again, in order to see the developpments in both games (and to ease it on less experienced players like me who would like to improve!)
--Kon--
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August 7, 2002, 19:17
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#86
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Emperor
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Not a bad idea, if alexman's up for it...
BTW, I think we are seeing new killers just from 1.29... America for instance, seems to have gotten significantly better and more aggressive. Wonder what Soren did...
What happened to Konquest01?
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The greatest delight for man is to inflict defeat on his enemies, to drive them before him, to see those dear to them with their faces bathed in tears, to bestride their horses, to crush in his arms their daughters and wives.
Duas uncias in puncta mortalis est.
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August 7, 2002, 21:12
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#87
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Prince
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Dunno... never heard of him...
Got this number elsewhere and kept it. Konquest is the test name of a board game my friend invented last year in college. It looked a bit like Civ, but in real life. The main point of the game was fighting for the kingdom of Kon. For those who speak french here, "Se battre pour un royaume con..." Which translates to "Fighting for a stupid kingdom..." We had a good laugh and changed the name! I kept it!
While playing Civ, I usually do not aim for C(k)onquest victory, I suck at it. I am more of the peaceful guy...
--Kon--
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August 11, 2002, 06:55
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#88
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Emperor
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Those of you who don't visit CFC won't have seen this, but one of the posters there has created a very impressive little website to document the strategy involved in one of the tournament games.
Definitely worth a look!
Link:
http://www.civfanatics.com/doc/civ3/...apan_campaign/
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If I'm posting here then Counterglow must be down.
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August 11, 2002, 15:54
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#89
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Emperor
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It's great... carver knows his sh-t!!
Comments:
1. No barracks, which I would have built for the WCs at least.
2. Used a WC to kick-off an Army... that's a nono, as the Army will then never be able to enter unroaded jungles or mountains. Also, the GL was created by a Swordsman, which clearly should have been the base unit.
3. Be careful in that carver uses the more conservative 'cumulative' approach to combat calculations, rather than additive, which is the correct approach. He acknowledged this at CFC, but it's not made clear in the game AAR.
Great job though, have to hand it to him.
__________________
The greatest delight for man is to inflict defeat on his enemies, to drive them before him, to see those dear to them with their faces bathed in tears, to bestride their horses, to crush in his arms their daughters and wives.
Duas uncias in puncta mortalis est.
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August 11, 2002, 16:38
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#90
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King
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Interestingly, the author says that he has not observed 'armies that would retreat from combat rather than fight to the death'. I don't know if this is old news, but I have seen a retreating army. A sneak-attacking AI landed, beside some ancient units, two Infantry units at a hill near the coast, and I decided to take them out with a 12hp tank army (that I had been able to build because of player1's changes to the Military Academy). Killed the first Infantry with no great losses (2 or 3 hp), decided to blitz, but the second Infantry brought my army down to 1 hp. While I was fearing the worst, the army retreated.
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"As far as general advice on mod-making: Go slow as far as adding new things to the game until you have the basic game all smoothed out ... Make sure the things you change are really imbalances and not just something that doesn't fit with your particular style of play." - WesW
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