Huge disparity in US/Canada murder rates -- why?

Asher · July 11, 2002, 01:25

Major urban cities in Canada murder rate per 100,000 people (Source: Government of Alberta):

US urban cities (source: http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/wor...000/153988.stm):

Quote:

Murder rate per 100,000 people
Washington 69.3
Philly 27.4
Dallas 27.8
LA 22.8
Chicago 20.5
Pheonix 19.1
Houston 18
NY city 16.8

So why are they so different? Is it the gun laws? Is it the lowered economic disparity? Is it our cold weather? What?

Discuss...

KrazyHorse · July 11, 2002, 01:38

Cold weather's not a bad explanation, actually. Murder rates skyrocket when outside temperatures go up...

Tingkai · July 11, 2002, 01:38

Nah, Americans are just a violent people by nature.

Faboba · July 11, 2002, 01:40

Gang culture? Higher murder rates breed higher murder rates?

Sprayber · July 11, 2002, 02:25

tsk tsk tsk. Asher.

You have been reading too many Paitktis trolls. A knee jerk thread should be beneath you. At least I hope you will refrain from calling us Nazies like he does.

Or is that Ecthelion?

KrazyHorse · July 11, 2002, 02:29

The funny thing is, Asher's the most pro-American Canadian here. Actually, he holds dual citizenship, and can't wai to move south...

gopher · July 11, 2002, 02:45

I love those stats, especially whenever somebody accuses the media of the cause of violence in the USA. Canada gets the exact same movies, TV shows, music, etc, yet their crime is 1/10 the rate of the US. Thats hard to overcome

notyoueither · July 11, 2002, 02:48

As a matter of fact, I think they are... hard to overcome.

But you'll have to undo the culture of guns if you want to lower those numbers.

Guns don't kill people. People with weapons kill people. Just a lot more efficient with a fully automatic weapon.

Zylka · July 11, 2002, 02:48

I KNOW FOR ONE THAT WASHINGTON IS AT THE TOP BECAUSE IT IS THE ROCK CAPITAL OF NA. I ALSO HAPPEN TO KNOW THAT THE WINNIPEG RATE IS HIGHEST IN CANADA BECAUSE OF THE HIGH NATIVE POPULATION THERE

FOOD FOR THOUGHT

Sprayber · July 11, 2002, 02:52

Quote:

Originally posted by KrazyHorse
The funny thing is, Asher's the most pro-American Canadian here. Actually, he holds dual citizenship, and can't wai to move south...

Well, to quote a famous Canadian "Isn't it ironic, don't you think"

Kirnwaffen · July 11, 2002, 02:53

Gotta be the traffic.

Sprayber · July 11, 2002, 02:54

Quote:

Originally posted by Zylka
I KNOW FOR ONE THAT WASHINGTON IS AT THE TOP BECAUSE IT IS THE ROCK CAPITAL OF NA. I ALSO HAPPEN TO KNOW THAT THE WINNIPEG RATE IS HIGHEST IN CANADA BECAUSE OF THE HIGH NATIVE POPULATION THERE

FOOD FOR THOUGHT

I know for a fact that there is a special place in hell for people that use all caps.

KrazyHorse · July 11, 2002, 02:55

Quote:

Well, to quote a famous Canadian "Isn't it ironic, don't you think"

I can't stand her. CAN'T STAND HER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

KrazyHorse · July 11, 2002, 02:56

Quote:

yet their crime is 1/10 the rate of the US

Somebody's exaggerating just a bit...

Sprayber · July 11, 2002, 02:59

Quote:

Originally posted by Kirnwaffen
Gotta be the traffic.

Every morning I commute
Mild mannered man in a business suit
I want to get home at the end of my day
But there are all these other cars in my way

I pull up beside one...pull out my pistol...and blow 'em away

I'm driving my car and I want to go fast
But there's a slow car won't let me pass
I flash my light and I honk my horn
I have to consider him warned

I pull up behind him...pull out my pistol...and blow him away

Jesse James behind the wheel
It's high noon in my automobile
You call me crazy...you call me sick
But let me get to where I'm going to quick

That sonofa*****..he cut me off
Three whole lanes he cut across
He made me mad...he made me swerve
Sonofa***** got what he deserved

I pulled up behind him...pulled out my pistol...and blew him away

That motorcycle was riding between
The backed up traffic..right between the lanes
Y'know to me...that's an act of war
I saw him coming...I opened my door

I knocked him over...i pulled out my pistol...and I blew him away

Jesse James behind the wheel
It's high noon in my automobile
You call me crazy...you call me sick
Just let me get to where I'm going to quick

Little red sportscar was flying past
Made me jealous...it went so fast
I gave him the finger...I thumbed my nose
Took me fifty miles for me to get close enough

To pull up behind him...pull out my pistol...and blow him away

Little old lady...bless her heart
Walking her poodle across the boulevard
It was wearing a red knitted sweater and a red knitted hat
It's name was "Fifi" or something stupid like that

I said "here, Fifi"...pulled out my pistol...and blew it away

Tingkai · July 11, 2002, 03:28

the number of people jailed per 100,000 is also high in the US:

US 682
New Zealand 150
England and Wales 125
Canada 123
Scotland 119
Australia 110
Finland 54

The Pioneer · July 11, 2002, 03:39

Disparity social and economic. Education (lack of), family (lack of), respect (lack of), gang culture in inner cities, easy accesibility to guns (without the right education).

Where did you get that list from Tingkai? I am surprised to see New Zealand on that one adn I amore surprised to see that 6 of 7 are Anglophones?! (ok maybe 5 1/2 since Canada is not only english speaking)

Tingkai · July 11, 2002, 03:40

Quote:

Originally posted by Zylka
I ALSO HAPPEN TO KNOW THAT THE WINNIPEG RATE IS HIGHEST IN CANADA BECAUSE OF THE HIGH NATIVE POPULATION THERE

Winnipeg has the largest population of Natives, but what proof do you have to back up your claim that the high murder rate in the Peg is a result of a large native population?

I've looked around for some numbers, but haven't able to find anything.

I did find stats showing 13 per cent of people in jail for murder are aboriginal, while aboriginals make up 3 per cent of the Canadian population.

Tingkai · July 11, 2002, 03:45

Quote:

Originally posted by The Pioneer
Where did you get that list from Tingkai? I am surprised to see New Zealand on that one adn I amore surprised to see that 6 of 7 are Anglophones?! (ok maybe 5 1/2 since Canada is not only english speaking)

Corrections Canada

http://www.sgc.gc.ca/EPub/Corr/eStat...tatNov2000.htm

The Pioneer · July 11, 2002, 04:02

These statisitics show though that there is something terribly wrong in the US! I mean sure there are literally thousands of towns in the US where the crime rate is no worse than anywhere else in the world (often with 0 homicide rate) but in the big population centers something is not ticking right. But the numbers show the truth there are more violent deaths in America than there are in some wars that were (or are being) fought in recent history.

The number of people jailed is stunning there was a report here in Germany a while back which said that almost 1 in 10 or so have been in jail. That's something that you wont see in Europe or other countries.

On the other hand the numbers don't show that there are a lot of place sin the US were it is unlikely that you will ever witness or be a victim of a crime.

notyoueither · July 11, 2002, 04:07

The 'war' on drugs can be thanked for a lot of the incarceration rate in the US. I think.

I believe there is also a statistical correlation between living in a house with guns in it and being murdered. I don't like the 'lock up all the guns' group actually, but statistics do not lie.

/Edit. That should say that numbers do not lie. Liers use statistics all the time.

The Pioneer · July 11, 2002, 04:19

I agree with the thing about drug related crimes. Some of these crimes should not even be considered a crime (i.e. smoking a joint).

As for guns being in the house, I do believe that we should have the right to own any guns we like (not the case in Europe) but it should be very much controlled and you should have to get the right education before you get the license, plus mandatory courses or something every so often. Something like a driver's license here in Germany, which really pays off (stats on street safety are hard proof of that).

Asher · July 11, 2002, 08:51

Quote:

Originally posted by Sprayber
tsk tsk tsk. Asher.

You have been reading too many Paitktis trolls. A knee jerk thread should be beneath you. At least I hope you will refrain from calling us Nazies like he does.

Or is that Ecthelion?

I'm just trying to help out the inner-city youth of America.

I know the suburbs don't really have these problems, just the major urban centers themselves, but it's still fascinating countries largely the same in culture and so close together are so wildly apart with one figure.

SpencerH · July 11, 2002, 09:28

Part of the difference is that Canadian cities tend to be more homogeneous than American cities so the statistics are somewhat deceiving. For example Birmingham just left the 10 most deadly cities (its now 11th). But thats really just the stats for the inner city. Where I live in the burbs there is virtually no crime (except for the occasional gunfire on the highway) but our stats aren't included with Birmingham.

aaglo · July 11, 2002, 09:29

One explanation for the lower murder rates:
Canada is so sparsely populated (even within city limits) that it's a tough job to find somebody to be killed.

drake · July 11, 2002, 09:30

Sprayber, that song personifies what runs through my head every day

Havent snapped yet tho

Boris Godunov · July 11, 2002, 09:35

I think it boils down to economics. American inner cities, far more than any where else in the Western world, or confined nests of dismal poverty. Such conditions breed more crime.

Saint Marcus · July 11, 2002, 09:43

It's not just the cities. On average, the homicide rate in the USA is about 7 to 10 times higher than in the rest of the western world.

aaglo · July 11, 2002, 09:54

StMarcus: doesn't most of the people in USA live in cities?

Saint Marcus · July 11, 2002, 11:06

Yes, but same can be said for every western nation. Also, most people live mall cities, not the big ones we're talking about.