July 14th Turnchat

[Jon Shafer]

A very fine piece of work, I must say. 2 hours of flawless work, and we got 10 turns completed.

Basically, we began gearing up for war with America. Many Veteran Archers were produced, and we have the beginnings of 1st Army forming.

Turnchat, Sunday July 14th 2002

End of Turn 52, 1700 BC

Turn 53, 1700 BC
Termina finishes Barracks, production changed to Archer
Warrior near Germany moves NW
Warrior near Persia moves S
Warrior in jungle moves E to garrison ‘Blue City’

Turn 54, 1675 BC
Warrior Near Germany Moves NW
Warrior in jungle moves E
Warrior Near Persia Moves SE
Worker 1 moves S to begin clearing

Turn 55, 1650 BC
Banana HQ finishes Settler, changes production to Barracks
Settler moves SW, S towards new city site
Worker 1 begins clearing
Warrior Near Germany Moves W
Regular Warrior In Jungle GOTO BlueCity's Spot
Regular Warrior In Banana HQ moves North
Warrior Near Persia Moves S
We trade Writing to the Aztecs for 25 Gold

Turn 56, 1625 BC
Archer In Apolyton GOTO The Grasslad SW of Banana HQ
Warrior Near Germany moves NW
Warrior Near Banana HQ moves N
Warrior Near Persia moves E
Settler moves S

Turn 57, 1600 BC
City of Tassagrad founded, Production: Barracks
Warrior near Banana HQ moves N
Warrior near Germany moves W
Warrior near Persia moves NE
Archer moves N into Tassagrad
Warrior moves S towards Tassagrad

Turn 58, 1575 BC
Termina builds Archer, production changed to Archer
Warrior Near Germany moves W
Warrior Near Banana HQ moves NE
Warrior Near Persia moves NE
Archer in Tassagrad moves N
Archer In Termina GOTO the grasslad SW of Banana HQ

Warrior near Banana HQ fights off Barbarian Warrior, 3 HP remaining

Turn 59, 1550 BC
Warrior near Germany moves W
Warrior near America moves E
Warrior near Persia moves N
Archers on GOTO move
Warrior in Tassagrad fortifies

Warrior near Banana HQ fights off Barbarian Horseman, 1 HP remaining

Turn 60, 1525 BC
Warrior near Germany moves N
Warrior near Persia moves N
Warrior near America fortifies to heal
Archer near Banana HQ moves NE, N to mountain
Other Archer on GOTO moves towards Banana HQ

Turn 61, 1500 BC
Apolyton finishes Archer, production: Spearman
Warrior near Germany moves N
Warrior near Persia moves N
Warrior fortified near America finishes healing
Archer in Apolyton GOTO the mountain near Banana HQ
Archer on mountain near Banana HQ fortifies
Tassagrad works on coastal tile instead of grassland: 1 food and 2 gold instead of 2 food per turn
Apolyton works on forest tile instead of Horses: 1 food and 2 shields instead of 2 food 2 gold

Turn 62, 1475 BC
Apolyton’s borders expand to level 3
Termina finishes Archer, Production: Archer
Worker 2 finishes clearing tile 2 S of Tassagrad, begins building mine
Warrior near Germany moves N
Warrior near America moves E
Warrior near Persia moves W
Archer in Termina on GOTO towards mountain tile N of Banana HQ
Archers on GOTO move towards mountain tile
Tassagrad works on grassland tile instead of coast: the city will expand sooner so we’ll have mines to increase production

[Inverse Icarus]

thanks. downloaded the official sav... i dont know wtf happened to me before

[Jon Shafer]

Originally posted by UberKruX
thanks. downloaded the official sav... i dont know wtf happened to me before

I don't think any of us do, UK, I don't think any of us do.

But yes, this is the official save, so download it!

[Spiffor]

As you probably know, some interesting things happened last turn :
plenty of Civs got Horseback riding.
Romans got mathematics from the Americans, or discovered it.

Anyways, here's a new tech whoring project, which is smaller than my previous one.

The project is :

- buy mathematics from the Americans for 165 gold OR buy math from the Romans for 171 gold. Buying from the Romans would be more expansive, but it would give us better relationships with them.

- sell mathematics to the Aztecs for Horseback riding and money. Aztecs are the only ones who happen to have both Horseback AND money.

- sell Horseback riding to the Germans for money (up to 51 gold)

- sell Horseback riding to the Babylonians (up to 24 gold and a worker)

What do you think ?

[Jon Shafer]

Sounds good. Make sure we trade to the Romans too. No need to help the Americans out right before we begin our invasion.

[Ninot]

sounds great, just buy it from Rome instead of USA

continuing my policy of screwing USA anyway possible before the war.

[Aggie]

Great deal! Could you make it, then repost the save. Definitely rome is the way to go. Also anytrades for a worker would ALWAYS be good. They usually cost 23 or so gold. Maybe we could use him to road.
Aggie

[Inverse Icarus]

thats a good point... should trades be allowed to be done BETWEEN turnchats? that could also apply to changing pruduction of cities etc.

basically, like Civ2 MP, during the time when it wasnt ure turn you could do a lot of stuff. we should be able to.

this will help a lot when i comes to a later age. with 50-100 units moving around, the last thing we need are trades ad city improvements wasting time during turnchats

[Kloreep]

I agree that we should buy from the Romans.

However, doesn't owning slaves make their original owners mad at you? Maybe this isn't the case if you trade for them, but that is what happens if you get them through war. (I'm not saying we shouldn't make the trade for the Bab worker; we could definitely use him, and it'll be one pop point less for the Babs. I'm just wondering what the consequences might be.)

[notyoueither]

Why is Poly building a spearman?

[Epistax]

For plan eagle, we need units that can defend with our attacking army.

[Jon Shafer]

Originally posted by notyoueither
Why is Poly building a spearman?

We hadn't yet produced a Spearman anywhere, so people called out to change to a Spearman instead of Archer, so I changed it.

[notyoueither]

OK. So what plan for force construction are you following?

In other words, how many of which type of units to launch the attack?

[Jon Shafer]

From here on out I think it's going to be Archers. We have another Spearman in Apolyton that can move forward to the front to be the guard for the 2nd Army.

[notyoueither]

OK. So 3 spearmen? How many archers? 10?

[Jon Shafer]

Originally posted by notyoueither
OK. So 3 spearmen? How many archers? 10?

Around there, hopefully more if time allows.

We're also starting to build a road from Apolyton to Banana HQ, so that it'll be easier for our reinforcements to get to the front.

[notyoueither]

Good, good. OK, but we need 7 units to get to 3 and 10.

Having Poly on the whale... If we work both forest tiles we reach 13 units in 12 turns. Poly finishes in 11. That costs us 22 gold.

If we work the whale, the last archer is 16 turns from now. That is getting very late for an archer rush. Yes, 4 turns could make a huge difference.

[Inverse Icarus]

The first attack will launch with 1 spearman and 6 archers minimum. i'd prefer more archers than spearman if we had the time.

the way i see it (and i'll make an image later), the first army of 1s 6a will take washington with decent losses (assuming the americans have 2 spearmen + archer defense) after washington falls, i would assume that we would have 1 or 2 archers left from the the 6 (from a pessimist angle), and those 2 plus the spearman would serve as a garrison. no doubt, the americans will launch a couter attack, probably with several warriors and a few archers. the archers will be able to strike the approaching enemies before they attack us.

as the first army is moving towards washington, a SECOND army will start to be assembled. Although this isn't a lightning blow ala plan eagle, with 2 armies at the same time, i am quite confident this will work. the second army should have at least 1 spearman and 5 archers, and will attack new york, which should be able to be CAPTURED (not razed), and will give us the possibilty to add dyes quickly to our empire.

chances are Washington and NY are roaded together, ad units could move between them in 2 turns.

as the SECOND army advances, i'd really like to see "refresher" troops, not an army in itself, but a spearman and 2 archers or so, so the army attacking ew york can consolidate with it and raze philly. this could be followed up quickly by moving a settler into the area and re-colonizing (IMHO, Philly is in a really bad spot, it doesnt work with our current cities, but im not the IE, i'm just saying post wartime plans).

The last part (the secod army consolidating and razign philly) is optional, as we could PROBABLY get it from america as part of a treaty, but thats for the IE to decide i suppose.

Also, as this whole plan is being executed, Settlers could be produced. When the frist army leaves, Termina and Apolyton will probably be 4s, with useless entertainers. a settler from each city wont hurt the production very much, and may allow us to sieze the iron / dyes near persia (we could corner the dye market).

i wouldnt be suprised if germany / persia or even greece started to colonize those dyes / iron, so i suggest we grab some soon.

1 or 2 settlers would fit nicely into this little plan, so i have no problem losing 1 or 2 archers for a new city.

im tired, but tomorrow i'll take this idea, refine it a bit, and make a SMC report.

[Inverse Icarus]

The american army most likely consists of a few archers (2 or 3) and a bunch of warriors (up to 10 roaming) and some spears on defese. They should be pushovers if we use stacks of 6 archers.

[Aggie]

An idea i mentioned in the turnchat but didn't get a response. How about we use some of the archers ( say 2) and move them toward where the warrior encounted the barbarians. Perhaps we could disperse an encampment and get some elite units.
Just and idea
Aggie

[Robber Baron]

Originally posted by UberKruX
... so the army attacking ew york can consolidate with it and raze philly. this could be followed up quickly by moving a settler into the area and re-colonizing (IMHO, Philly is in a really bad spot, it doesnt work with our current cities, but im not the IE, i'm just saying post wartime plans).

I agree with Uber about Philly. A prime location for a city is closeby however -- especially if we want to move against France after America. I would plant a city 1 square diagonally NW. That would give you the river protection bonus facing west and north, plus access to numerous river squares, plus immediately bringing that shielded grassland due north into immediate plat ... plus the forest (early shield bonus, if we need it), and presumably the cleared tile created by the razed city (true?).
A city there would be a nice way to tie our American acqusitions ( ) in with our homeland on the penninsula. It would be a good place to meet a French counterattack (barracks, maybe pop-rushed walls if need be) from the North, as we strike south, through Orlean (if that's the way we decide to approach).

[Torkkeli]

Originally posted by Aggie
An idea i mentioned in the turnchat but didn't get a response. How about we use some of the archers ( say 2) and move them toward where the warrior encounted the barbarians. Perhaps we could disperse an encampment and get some elite units.
Just and idea
Aggie

Here, here

I totally agree as this could win us more victories. And as there isn't much to do when waiting for the armies to build up, this should be taken into consideration.

But ofcourse should the encampment be far away then we should leave it there, for the moment.
(far away = more than half of the number of turns to complete our armies so we get these victorious archers where they belong in time.)

[Harovan]

I would say, trade with the Americans rather than with the Romans. Remember, what we give the Americans, we'll get back, either as cash (which I doubt) or as advances.

UberKruX: Attack soon, time matters! The reinforcements should be built with France in our mind. And take 2 spearmen to attack America, you'll need one as garrison after the capital is taken and the archer stack would attack the 2nd city unprotected (and no doubt suffer more losses than necessary).

[Inverse Icarus]

Originally posted by Sir Ralph
I would say, trade with the Americans rather than with the Romans. Remember, what we give the Americans, we'll get back, either as cash (which I doubt) or as advances.

UberKruX: Attack soon, time matters! The reinforcements should be built with France in our mind. And take 2 spearmen to attack America, you'll need one as garrison after the capital is taken and the archer stack would attack the 2nd city unprotected (and no doubt suffer more losses than necessary).

i've been playing aother game (as china) and ive tried an archer attack early on (against india), and the losses were more than i would have liked. i'm assumig 4 archers would die in an assault against washigton, leaving 2 and the spearman (pessimistic).

i am thinking over the possibility of adding another spearman to the stack, and how long that would add to the preperations.

in 10 turns, the archer termina is building and the spearman apolyton is building will be on the mountain, making 4 archers and 1 spearman there.

apolyton builds a spear/archer every 4 turns after that, and so does termina. it will take 10 turns to build the archer in termina and move it to the mountain, making 6 archers and 1 spear (if apolyton builds an archer after it's spearman).

so thats 20 turns from now, for 6 archers and oen spear. banana HQ makes a barracks in 13 turns (maybe less, it grows next turn, but i assume the extra sheild will be waste). so that leaves 7 turns to complete a spearman, and with 2 sheild production, it's possible.

we may be able to take 2 spearmen along after all.

[Kuciwalker]

I see you put a little reminder in your sig