AU 101: Crowding & War

[nbarclay]

Originally posted by Arrian

By the way, I lied (unintentionally of course): I also did not use chariots, longbowmen, marines or paratroopers.

-Arrian

This is off topic, but I really don't like the use of "lie" to describe such misstatements because it reduces the impact of the word. To me (and to at least one of my dictionaries), a false statement has to be deliberate to qualify as a lie. "I misspoke" would be a better way of putting it.

Nathan

[Theseus]

/ joking

I'm actually mad here... Arrian didn't use CHARIOTS??!!

/ end joking

[Harovan]

I used chariots, but I didn't take cities with them.

I used in wars and took cities with:
Archers (most cities on my home continent)
Spearmen (few cities, finished off the 1hp defender)
Swordsmen (1 city)
Horsemen (1 city)
Samurai (half of Egypt)
Cavalries (other half of Egypt, part of Greece)
Infantries/Artilleries (part of Greece)
Tanks (1 city so far, will be more soon)

I used in wars, but did not take cities with:
Warriors (2 cities autorazed)
Chariots
Longbowmen (only one upgraded leader archer)
Musketmen (one upgraded spearman, defensive only)

I did not use in wars:
Pikemen
Riflemen

For the final war (which I try to free time for since days) I have additionally ready:
8 Paratroopers
8 Marines
20 Mech Infantries

I won't wait for Modern Armor though (sigh, I could have met this decision long ago).

[Aeson]

I think keeping the AI's cities was a big part of why my tech rate was as fast as it was. I only targetted cities I knew I wouldn't have to raze. After Mysticism, my research was always at 70% or higher, often at 100%. Beelined for Literacy, then the Republic, freely trading those techs to the Iroquois for the 'military' advances they seemed to target. After switching to a Republic, I had enough libraries and commerce (the city with 3 gold really helped, built on 1) to research every tech from then on in 4 turns.

Between the palace jump and Leader, every city was highly productive. Keeping the Iroquois small, so as not to have to expend much time building units really helped in building infrastructure as well.

I just wish I had thought to take a city with Spearmen (with proper catapult support of course). I think that was the only unit I didn't use.

[Arrian]

Nathan,

Err, ok. Of course I misspoke. "I lied" was said in jest. I should perhaps have included a smilie.

Theseus,

Glad you like STCOMOM. Blatant rip-off from the original Men in Black there ("that rates about a 9.0 on my wierdshitometer")

Aeson,

I kept captured AI towns too, razing only a couple of them. I think another major difference was your early contact with the overseas civs... or rather my late contact with them. Once I caught up in tech I did great because of all that gold we had (my FP city was built on one of the gold hills). But I was just too damn slow in getting a galley out there. Hell, it was blind luck that my very first suicide run worked (three straight turns ended in ocean on the way to Egypt). Can you believe that? I shudder to think what would have become of my civ it required several tries.

-Arrian

[W4r_Machine]

Originally posted by Aeson
I think keeping the AI's cities was a big part of why my tech rate was as fast as it was. I only targetted cities I knew I wouldn't have to raze. After Mysticism, my research was always at 70% or higher, often at 100%. Beelined for Literacy, then the Republic, freely trading those techs to the Iroquois for the 'military' advances they seemed to target. After switching to a Republic, I had enough libraries and commerce (the city with 3 gold really helped, built on 1) to research every tech from then on in 4 turns.

Aeson, what do you do to keep you science that high while supporting a large millitary? MY millitary was big but that was because I set my research to zero hoping that I'll get all my tech through war, which I did.

Also, perhaps I did a little to much razing and producing my own setler that set my growth back. When I met the english in 2800 she only had York and London so I had no choice but to raze York(I did it 3 times). I didn't think 3 vet warriors can take London, and 3 vet archers to take Salmanaca so I just kept hunting those 1 sized cities and ocationally taking cities with 2 pop.

[nbarclay]

I finally got a single leader on my home continent attacking England's last city. I waited a while and built Magellan's with it, figuring it would come in handy for overseas invasions. But when I finally met up with the other civs, I wasn't where I really wanted to be tech-wise. Egypt, France, and Greece all entered the industrial era just a little ahead of me, ending up with Nationalism. My invasion fleet canceled its plans to hit Egypt and headed south to Rome instead.

The conquest of Rome's three cities occurred the turn after my landing. Five of my seven galleons then took on troops and headed on to Persia, while two returned to the mainland to pick up additional forces. Persia was bigger than Rome and held out longer, but the superior quality of my forces proved decisive. (I persuaded the Greeks to ally with me against Persia, so they helped a little in keeping Persia busy.) The objectives of those wars were (1) to gain luxuries and (2) to give me eventual staging areas on both other continents.

It wasn't very far into the industrial age before I pulled ahead in tech, and then started pulling away. Egypt demanded one of my techs and declared war when I wouldn't give them something for nothing. For the first time, I found the draft a really useful tool; I lost two of my three Roman cities but managed to hold onto Rome itself. And Egypt suffered very heavy losses; even conscript infantry are pretty powerful defenders when the best attackers are infantry and cavalry and a lot of the attackers are riflemen. And they don't stay conscripts for long. Better, the Egyptians are now living under a communist regime, so at least for the moment, they won't be competing seriously in research. I'd dragged Greece and France into the Egyptian war with me, and Greece is still fighting Egypt. (I made peace when the initial alliance expired. Egypt had already pillaged two of my three gem tiles and I didn't want to take a chance on losing access to the third, and war weariness was becoming a nuisance.)

So now it's 1445 and I'm just a few turns away from having Motorized Transportation. Before long, I'll have tanks, and rush-building airports on the other continents will let me get them where I need them not long after (along with the numerous infantry I built on the home continent once cities ran out of better things to do). I'll probably take out Greece's core with tanks (possibly in concert with mech inf, depending on exactly when I attack) and then wait for Modern Armor to deal with Egypt and France.

Nathan

[Harovan]

Finished 1772 AD with 4799 score points. I accidentally triggered domination, because that crappy island city expanded (which I already had forgotten about...). Fun game overall, but the late game was somehow similar to MT III, I had half an era tech lead and fought with unfair units. I had given up my plan to wait for MA at half way. Could have finished a lot earlier, if I did not wait.

To my list of units adds Mech Infantry. My Paratroopers failed to take their objective, because probably 8 bombers on 2 carriers I gave them as support were not enough. The last Infantry in the city (elite with 2 hp left) killed four of them without losing a single hp.

I'm gonna have a break of civing now. I hardly find time to play anyway . Job and family. Oh well. I think I'll play again in end of August or so.

[Harovan]

Originally posted by Sir Ralph
Holy sh|t, is domination left on?? I'm about 60 tiles under the domination limit in my game... Theseus? I thought it was off?

EDIT: Make that 6, not 60. Damn, that was close. But later I won via domination though.

PS: And this was meant to be an edit, not reply with quoting myself. Damn, guess I need a vacation

[nbarclay]

I'm up to 1545 and recently captured Greece's core (including Sun Tsu's, Leonardo's, and Universal Suffrage) with tanks. I'm two techs into the modern era (Computers and Rocketry) but can't keep up a four-turn tech pace without running a significant deficit, so I'm going to research Amphibious Warfare to give my finances a breather. (Plus, marines will give me an opportunity for an end run around the mountains guarding Egypt against attacks launched from Rome.) Egypt is still communist and still, after all these years, in a war with what little is left of Greece (one city on the French coast and one city on a tiny island). France is number two in tech, but it's also number one on my target list for when I get Modern Armor, and I seriously doubt that they'll get tanks before they get killed.

Nathan

[nbarclay]

Game over, 1645 AD. The invasion of France was a classic two-turn Modern Armor blitz, leaving France with only two island cities (one of which I later gained in a peace treaty). The only thing unusual about the war was how thoroughly France's military was upgraded to Infantry, which made the assault more expensive than I had counted on. Then again, with well over a hundred battalions of Modern Armor, I could afford "more expensive".

I then shuttled five transport-loads of troops from the French continent to Rome, sent four transports back for a second load, and had the fifth transport in the area pick up some Marines that had been airlifted from the homeland to Rome so they could capture Greece's last island. I'd already captured their city on the former French coast, and if they weren't willing to make peace, my alternative was to finish the job of carving them into pieces. In the meantime, additional newly built marines, modern armor, and the occasional bomber were airlifted to Rome.

The conquest of Egypt was complicated by two stall-points where modern armor could not get through to the Egyptian core in a single turn. One was the mountains north of Rome, and the other was the isthmus connecting Roman territory with the majority of Egypt's cities. But my marines knew exactly how to deal with such problems. After heavy airstrikes by my bombers, they captured the city north of Rome, allowing Modern Armor (supported by lighter units) to get through to two more otherwise unreachable cities. Then another transport-load of marines, supported by naval gunfire, invaded a city south of Thebes. Two transport-loads of Modern Armor followed up by capturing Thebes and the Egyptian city that held cultural control of the isthmus, clearing the way for units from Rome to strike into what little was left of the Egyptian core. By the time the initial invasion was over, Egypt had only five cities left on its home continent, all protected by mountains.

At that point, domination kicked in. My score of 4642 wasn't a record-breaker, but it wasn't too bad considering how small the home continent was. And the conquest of Thebes had finished giving me control of all the world's great wonders.

After the win, I decided to finish playing out the conquest of the Egyptian home continent. (After all, if all went well, it wouild be over by the end of the turn.) Modern armor and older elite forces captured the three northern surviving Egyptian cities. Marines supported by naval gunfire captured the southernmost, which would have taken a bit longer to reach by land, and a mixed force of elite units landed in that city and captured the Egyptian city a little to the north. That left Egypt with two small towns and France with one, all on the island south of the Japanese homeland.

Marines can definitely be fun for attacking areas where the terrain gets in the way of a classic blitz. I'm still not convinced that Amphibious Warfare is normally worth the delay in climbing the tech tree. But in certain types of specialized situations, especially if dropping back and researching Amphibious Warfare provides a much-needed opportunity to replenish gold reserves stripped bare by deficit spending on modern techs, it can be worthwhile. (In such situations, the effective cost in turns can drop from four to two or three, which is a lot easier for marines to pay back by speeding up attacks. The same could go for using Amphibous Warfare research as an opportunity to build up gold for upgrades from Tanks to Modern Armor if modern research can be done in four turns at roughly break-even.)

Nathan

[Dimension]

Why so scared of the Iroquois? I've never had a problem with them, and they were serious pushovers on this map -- I didn't finish them off till about 700AD, and they never even built their UU.

Since the start was right by a luxury, I built a barracks first while I put a road on the dyes, then just made five warriors and sent them off wandering. By the time I built my 2nd warrior, England already had their own warrior wandering around Kyoto, so I went up and found London, pillaged both their mines and razed their 2nd city right after it was built, then I waited a couple turns for them to get Warrior Code before I signed a treaty and got all their stuff. I just wandered all around Iroquois territory, and they weren't doing much at all. I razed a little city they put just west of Kyoto with some archers, and then traded for their map and tech, and they just had one source of horses right next to their capital, which they didn't even bother putting a road on. I kept going in and pillaging the resources around their capital, but they just built mines and irrigation, and never bothered putting a road on the horses.

About the 3rd or 4th Galley I sent out actually made it to the Romans, then I traded for all communications and a few more techs. I actually built the Great Library with manual labor, which gave me 10 techs. I finally finished off the English and Iroquois. I got 24 captured workers from them pretty early, so I only had to build one Worker the whole game. The only pre-Industrial leader I got built the Sistine Chapel.

Around the 1300's, things got bad. The AI's all got Nationalism before I did, and I had switched to Democracy and was beelining for Replacable Parts. I had hoped to build up and finish my rail network before I worried about anybody, but Greece started sending landing parties of Cavalry. My luxuries started disappearing as there was a new military alliance against me every turn. They took Hastings, Nottingham, Nagoya, and Nagasaki. I got back Hastings, and they took it again. I would swear Greece landed Cavalry from Caravels and took a city the same turn every time... Does the AI not have to wait a turn to attack? Then they would draft Musketmen the same turn. I wasn't saving and I didn't have autosave on, so maybe I just wasn't paying attention. I managed to get replacable parts and fire up the Golden Age with my single Samurai, though. I upgraded some defenders to Musketmen, and with my minimal rail system managed to keep them from wiping me out while I built six Cavalry. Tokyo was well connected with rails, had a barracks, and had just finished the Iron Works, so my miniscule army got replacments on time. In 1480, I had all my cities back, my rail network complete, and had managed to get France and Egypt in a military alliance against Greece by giving out Medicine and Electricity. At the end of the turn Greece wanted a treaty. I didn't want to sign it, but it seemed like a good idea for a Democracy, and it doubled the number of cities I had celebrating. I was still the only one with Replacable Parts, which was nice.

It was the first game I've played where I could say my Golden Age was perfectly timed. It ended in 1550 after giving me a tech edge throughout the Industrial Age and helping develop almost all my cities all the way up to Factories. I really shot ahead of the AI during my Golden Age and even got Sufferage and Hoover Dam. I used to like playing the Aztecs for Religious/Scientific, because I liked exploring and stealing workers with Jaguar Warriors... But now I think I like the Japanese much better. Being the only civ to start with The Wheel was a great thing, since I could extort other early techs and get to Horseback Riding fast. I could care less about Samurai having an extra point of defense, but if you can hold off attacking with them a little, they can give you a very optimal Golden Age without having to try and trigger it with a wonder.

When I finished with Egypt, I razed all the Greek cities. The war I had incited against Greece really hurt, because by the time I got to them they were only occupying the two tiny islands south of my starting continent. I was going to wait till I got Modern Armors to finish off everybody else... but I didn't remember I needed Rocketry to get Aluminum. I was just thinking all the Aluminum was in enemy territory, so I slowed my research way down and went for Fission. Damn Firaxis for not putting that little aluminum can icon on the F6 screen under Rocketry

I made the game last a lot longer than I had to, but that was because I was doing all my own research. I stopped trading techs with the AI in the middle of the Industrial age (although a couple times I sold them techs 2 or 3 behind what I was researching). I got Motorized Transport and dropped a bunch of tanks on Egypt. Everybody on this forum seems to have all kinds of horror stories about culture-flipping, but I took Memphis and kept it, right in the middle of Egypt's empire, who was a close 2nd to me culturally. It kept its Barracks when I took it, which was nice. I paid for a Temple, then used leaders to rush a Cathedral and Harbor, so I could setup Spice, Silk, and Gem colonies on Egypt's continent. Once the rest of the continent was empty, I just left it empty and used the barbarians for target practice to get a tank each turn to Elite then airdrop it to the war front. I ended up getting 14 leaders total, but all but the first one were made with tanks and came after the good wonders were already taken. Oddly enough, all of them were named Fujiwara, Hirohito, or Tojo... is that the only names available for the Japanese?

I spent the last half of the game going around with four carriers and 16 bombers, bombing almost every turn. It is a little frustrating that bombers fail more than half the time. I started keeping track, and almost every turn I would get 10 failed bombing runs out of 16. When I could only get two carriers to a front, my bombing was totally ineffective. It's a little sad that a carrier full of bombers does almost nothing, even against a city belonging to a civ that hasn't even discovered flight.

Things seemed to go really slow even after I got tanks. I guess that's just the way Civ is, but the only way I've ever even won before was by culture or spaceship. I had tanks in the 1600's, but didn't get everybody taken care of till much later. I landed a bunch of tanks on the next continent and took Susa for a place to heal and airdrop. Memphis, Susa and Paris were the only cities I kept (Paris had Magellan). In 1888, the only AI cities left were a size 8 and a size 1 Persian city, which I was in position to easily take next turn. Then, in 1890, "Terrible news, Lord! The people of Susa have deposed our governor and pleged allegiance to the trecherous Persians!" Pretty funny, when I had 73,240 culture and Persia's borders were nowhere near the city. The only defender in the city was one Infantry. The Persians did have a lot of culture. I had almost exactly 3X as much, but they were still not "In awe." Anyway, in 1890 I razed the first two cities, then in 1892 I razed the flipped city, but oddly, the game didn't end... Persia had managed to produce a settler, found a 2nd city on the continent with the flipped one, and produce two riflemen fortified in the city in one turn! I could only kill one rifleman that turn and drop 8 elite tanks back on the continent. Then, the next turn, in 1894 Persia produced a 3rd rifleman to guard the city, produced a settler and founded ANOTHER city, put a rifleman in that city, and produced a stack of 3 more riflemen and 3 bowmen and marched it into my territory! How does a civ with just ONE newly-founded city produce 8 units (including a settler) in one turn? Now that's some cheating! Believe me, I checked, and I had access to the whole continent. Those units were all produced in one turn. I'll attach the 1892 savegame if anybody wants to see. Anyway, I managed to raze the 4th city in 1894 and won... and it just happened to be the same turn I finally got Rocketry and all the aluminum showed up

I suppose that although I technically followed the rules, I really didn't follow the intent... I only took one city with most units. I mostly took my continent with Horsemen, only a few cities with Cavalry, and wiped everybody out with Tanks. But hey, this is the first game I've played on Emperor. The only other full games I played were a Warlord game with Greece, a couple Reagent games with Egypt and a couple Monarch games with the Aztecs.

[Mad Cleric]

Well, I may be new, but here is my opinion...

Well, I have found that there is too distinction in the way you play as a war-monger: people who use fast units, and those with single move units.

Speed, (in my opinion) is the dominate factor in winning this game, I have not played a game yet were I don't use a fast offensive of at least two-six moves per turn.
Yea, I can understand using archer rushes, you can make them from start with military civs, but, if you are going to use them right, I have always made a road from my capital to enemy civ, though my capital was suffering from not helping its tiles, my military campaing was brightrning because I caught all the civs while they were still using warriors and I was on their door-step with archers. I instantly just started making a road to the enemy civs, nothing else really matters unless your a builder, just a nice road, and nothing will stop you.

Also, what makes the road so deadly I found is that archers moving at 3 turns per turn can ussauly get to an enemy civ on a small map that is pangea within 1-10 turns, where-as using a roadless offensive, it would take 10-20 turns, see the difference?

Oh yea, also, when you are attacking an enemy civ, the roads will automatical near connect the two cities in the case you capture it, this being an automatic plus if you want to keep it.

There is an extreme downside of this though, if you ffail to destroy the target on the other side of the road, the AI mght send a devasating counter attack, and use the very same roads to their advantage, this has happened to me many times.

Well, that is my thought, for what it is worth...

-Ronald

[Mad Cleric]

Also, if you are going to use my road thought effectivly, it migth be better to just pick an industrious civ, any oher will simply take two long, I have experimented with a worker being the second thing I build after scout, i think it would work well, because using the chinese, two workers could lay a road in one turn, and considering how much time it takes to get enough archers, you could be real far out

[Cort Haus]

So, I finally play AU101, and I'll post a full report of my game soon, (if anyone's still interested) but I just want to mention what happens on PTW:

Airstrips, outposts and radars are there, but not the units or buildings of PTW. I wonder if the startgame can be 'upgraded'?

Another difference is that the AI cities are, it seems, better defended in PTW than Civ 3.0, and it fights a bit better (more stacks, less dribbles - and archer/spear combos).

I don't usually play either bloodlust or continents (or emperor), and had a lot of fun. It was great to be overstocked with resources for a change compared with my usual, peacenik-trading games, and I don't recall having a 400 unit army before. These free wonders you can get when warring are brilliant - I got five leaders and it could have been 10 if I hadn't been holding on to them, waiting for the wonder techs.

I didn't get all the wonders (I let my good friend Egypt keep two ) but took cities with archers. horses, swords, Samurai, cav and tanks and triggered domination in 1772 (hey Ralph!) finishing off Persia with tanks/bombers/arty.

No gold star for a warrior rush (still possible on PTW?) - I didn't understand the spec and used a Ralph-style archer-rush opening - but I did use catapults & cannons, and only broke one treaty.

Long live the AU!

[Dominae]

Nice thread revival!

[Arrian]

An oldie but a goodie.

If you've got screenshots & such to do a more complete AAR, Cort, please drop 'em on us.

-Arrian

[Cort Haus]

OK, here's how the Ancient Era went, with an attempt at attaching a map to show how it ended. The rest will follow once I've deciphered and typed-up my notes.

Btw - is it possible to include graphics within the text rather than just the end?

Opening

Unlike everyone else I didn't road the silks from the off, but game/forest to the north, as my playstyle usually means researching hard and prioritising trade roads early on. I wouldn't need the silk just yet, but I wanted the income asap, and obviously wanted to work the game tile. Nor did I start with barracks and warriors, but with a warrior-warrior-settler, planning on a Ralph-style archer rush from 4 cities.

Japan's hand was forced early when the English declared war after I declined to tribute them. 15 turns later I got Writing and 50g for peace - killing 5 warriors and 1 archer, losing 1 warrior and 2 archers, and we pillaged 1 tile each. I sense a smarter AI - keeping to the high ground, using stacks, sacrificing less and pillaging more with warriors than before.

1150BC - Waiting outside York for the peace treaty to expire with 4 arch + 2 spear. At home there are five cities, two with barracks, one by horses and one on the iron. They have temples to get at the food tiles, and will be linked by roads in a few turns.

1000BC - Capture City with Archers
Took York, losing 1 archer. Gave Iroqs 20g + 1gpt to keep them 'on-message'. Next turn - the iron disappears one turn before the road gets there - downside of building on a resource! The nearest iron is the other side of London, which has five spearmen in it when opening the embassy. That is not a city about to fall to anyone - and did civ 3.0 defend in such depth so early, or is it just a consequence of early war? I ask this of ye seasoned warmongers...

800BC - Production:
Kyoto, Osaka - vet horsies
Tokyo - vet spearman
Edo - workers (on flood plains)
Satsuma - catapult (pre-build - researching maths)

775BC - after healing & reinforcing, 4 archers, 2 spears and a settler start the march across hills SE of London towards the iron. Hastings is also on that peninsula. The plan is to build a city, defend it against inevitable nme (enemy) attention, then take Hastings.

Canterbury, north of London is on a hill and could need 6 horsies to be sure-ish. The ratio of 2 horse-cities to 1 spear might looks spear-heavy, but they were very useful blocking nme spear movements..

590BC - the iron expedition is getting held up. They have 3-4 archers shadowing my convoy. If I come off the high ground they'll attack - which I could survive but at the price of my plan, so I'll try to out-manoeuvre them...

Meanwhile, the 1st catapult delivers its second hit to an enemy spearman en route to reinforcing Canterbury. Elite horsie finishes off. Good catapult! Also, the ratio of 2 horse-cities to 1 spear might look spear-heavy, but they were very useful blocking nme spear movements, and would be great for vet-garisonning all those cities I'll be taking...

550BC - autorazed Canterbury. It got to size 2, but only to poprush a spear. The six horsemen were overkill, it only took two.

430BC - Stack of 4 english archers park outside York, with another behind them. I have 8 horsemen, 2 catapults, and no almost income. Their archers die, the horsies heal, and head for the cultured Nottingham to the northwest of London. Meanwhile, the Dance of the London Iron continues - with me unwilling to plant a much-needed 6th city, whilst tying up six units. The payoff is that this english archer stack is neutralized too, allowing my horses a free-er reign (rein?).

350BC - Capture City with Horsemen
Nottingham captured (has culture) with Horsie stack - got 5 workers It has iron nearby.
Made peace for philosophy, mapmaking, 210g, Coventry and 3 workers. They were left with London and Hastings, both size 1. I finally founded Nara next to the London iron.

By now the Iroqs had 10 cities, including Allegheny in the centre of the continent, and on all that gold. Nice spot for an FP. I'd signed a ROP with them to assist my units around London and Nottingham and thought I could maybe use that to position boats outside of their boundaries off the coast to drop resource-denial-squads on ROP-expiry. I've usually had good relations with the Iroquois in previous games, so I had little experience of the kind of thing that was going to happen...

170BC - 10 turns left of ROP with Iroqs. Built a worker-colony on Nottingham's iron, and upgraded 10 vet warriors to swordsmen with the money I'd saved researching construction @ 40 turns (15 turns to go).

110BC - Tet Offensive planned.
11 sword, 10 horse, 4 arch, 6 cat. Building wealth to stay afloat - this is the maximum sustainable army without taking more cities.

Japan formulates a bold plan to strike across the whole Iroquois empire - a 31-unit 'Tet Offensive' to disrupt & confuse the AI and to prevent a river of Golden Age-fuelled Mounted Warriors funnelling into my armies then tearing Japan to shreds.

Tonanwanda, coastal, 3 squares from the capital Salamanca and with horses was to recieve a pillage squad of two swordsmen dropped by boat. Objective - pillage the horses and then try the city.
Centralia, coastal, on iron was also to get a pillage squad of two swordsmen from a boat. Objective - pillage the road links to the city.
Niagra Falls - closest to Japan and founded early on all those grapes - 6 horsemen + 2 swordsmen, who will proceed to Grand River
Oil Springs - NE of Salamanca with silk - 4 horsemen
St Regis - furthest north - 4 archers from Nottingham
Cattaragus - on hills E of Salamanca with 5 swordsmen and 6 catapults who'll then proceed to Allegheny

The last turn of the ROP is 10AD

30AD - In one turn, I moved the 2 galleys out of the (expanded) Iroquois border and into the sea, revoked the expired ROP and declared war. This might have been cheesy or might have been clever, I'm not sure ... whatever - I moved the galleys back to the coast and unloaded the swordsmen. Those landing on hills were safe near Centralia, and subsequently cut off the Iron but those on the critical plains-horses tile near Salamanca got immediately trashed by MW. Golden Ages in ancient times may not be the best, but they still helped the Iroqs get their MW's flowing.

50AD - St Regis falls to archers, and witnessed a Iroq combo stack of 2MW, spear & warrior sitting on a mountain by Oil Springs and guarding it effectively. Japan's 4 horseman scheduled to vist Oil Springs balk and suddenly remember dental appointments...
In the South, Niagra Falls was taken, having been defended by 3 spears and a sword - better then 2 spears right?

much smiting later: (detailed historical records tragically lost in post-war looting)

420AD - Capture City with Swordsmen
Although swordsmen had been used in supporting, defensive and pillaging roles elsewhere, they had been diluted by the plan, and the stack-of 5 got held up by stiff resistance on the way to Cattaragus. Bashing enemy units is one thing, but depleting a stack below it's ability to take its objectives (in this case, a hilled city or two) was avoided. The game required taking a city with swords, so I wasn't going to blow the stack in attrition-battles. Eventually the sword-cat stack withdrew East from Cattaragus and took the secondary objective Allegheny on the hills in the gold instead. This took some cat-whipping - the first turn of bombardment knocked out the barracks, and later turns, though hits were rare, did eventually deplete the four defenders - and luring one out with a wounded unit helped too.

The campaign went fastest in the South, sweeping along the coast taking four cities and then, with reinforcements, pressed north for Oil Springs. Spearmen were being continuously produced to garrison the new holdings.Generally the 'Tet Offensive' did succeed in confusing the enemy - which didn't really commit itself to any front, and tended to dither in the middle.

Other lessons : Sword pairs are OK pillaging on hills, but not on the flat - esp against MW. I eventually blew my second sword pair coming off the hills near onto their Silks - doh! - as if I hadn't learned the lesson already. Also, four horses aiming at a city near the core probably won't be able to take that city, but the feint could be enough to divert the enemy from your main thrust elsewhere. Be ready to run away, but not too far.

With seven out of ten Iroquois cities taken, and with them having finally researched currency, I cut them a deal which gave them an research-extension in the game in return for Code of Laws, Currency, 100g and Centralia - with a luxury.

Both rivals now have 2 cities. Salamanca is size 8, and probably has capacity for another tech before its eventual normalisation into Japan. It'll probably research Republic. Only Polytheism remains of the mandatory ancient techs, and I don't fancy Rep or Mon with this size army and no infrastructure.

Army at end-of-war : 9 sword, 11 horse, 6 cat, 3 arch, 36 spear. Total : 73, supported 72. Nice - now I can research Polytheism and move into the Middle ages!

(continued ...)

[Cort Haus]

590AD - Building infrastructure in core cities - aqueducts, granaries, marketplaces (phew), colliseums, libraries. Next ring are getting courthouses, with wealth on the periphery. Even warmongers have to build sometimes, right? Especially if there's no-one much left to fight and the others, wherever they are, are probably half-an era ahead. I'm usually building universities by now, not libraries - and I'm usually well on the pace of a pangea tech race where I know where everyone is, what they're doing and where they're probably going.

Instead I'm proceeding slowly towards feudalism, with no idea where the others are geographically or technologically. While I've been building units and destroying my research partners, have they been ramping up their economies and swapping new techs every few turns? I've heard of these wonders they keep building - the nearest I'll probably get is if London or Salamanca get the Great Library they're attempting.

At first I'd thought of Astronomy, or even Navigation, as being required to meet the others, but what of these suicide galleys I've heard of? My coastal cities are poor producers, but it's got to be done.

The other problem is the high corruption in most cities of my large, despotic empire with a capital on the southern tip. With me edging towards feudalism, it'll be wait-for-the-Iroq's-to-get-republic. Or better - build an FP. Time to plan another war with the English.

650AD - Joy! Attacked England, and got a Great Leader on the first turn.

670AD - French build Great Library. So much for London's raison d'etre - taken. Also, Egypt builds Hanging Gardens. At least it wasn't the Sistine, so maybe they're not that far ahead. FP build with GL in Allegheny. The graphic below (upper left) shows the imediate effect of this - of course the fuller benefits are felt over time.

690AD - Took Hastings, English gone - Offensive army : 8 Sw, 8 Hrs, 6 Cat

800AD - More joy! The second galley wasn't suicidal. It survived two turns in the ocean and discovered Egypt! They've destroyed Rome and own their continent. Somehow France also appeared on my dip screen.

860AD - Attacked Iroqs & took Cattagarus - leaving Salamanca for knights (Chivalry in 7 turns).

890AD - Made peace with Iroqs for Republic and dramatic economy boost. (see lower graphic)

970AD - By now I have all contact and maps (see graphic upper right inc powergraph). Unlike most AU101 games that were reported, the Persians bossed their continent, rather than getting stuffed. More Immortal stacks perhaps in PTW? They've taken bites out of both the Greeks and French. Heavy warring on both continents has slowed the AI's down, luckily.

Decision : do I research Printing Press to trade it catch up a bit in tech, or slipstream Invention for a stab at Leo's? Still don't know how far behind I am - can only see the next level (educ, invention), but at least they've not built Tzu and Sistine yet. I have Tzu build going in Kyoto, more in hope than expectation.

980AD - Capture City with Samurai (Knight-era unit)
Upgraded horses to Samurai (but not the two elites) and Attacked Iroquois (with 12 turns on the peace treaty remaining). Japan's Golden Age commences, and we get another Great Leader! So Invention it is. Salamanca taken. The next city, and plenty more, I suspect will be taken with cavalry.
Elsewhere Egypt declare war on Persia.

1010 - Spent 250g to inspect rival Tzu builds, and thanks to the GA I'll beat Persia by one turn and Egypt by three turns. The GL can wait for Leo's.

1050 - Rushed Leo's with Great Leader.

1070 - Sun Tzu's completed by hand. Both military wonders, when I expected none. Finishing off Hiawatha was perfectly timed!

1150 - GA over - now level on tech and ahead on Bach. I was able to sell tech to Persia because they were at war with Egypt, their previous preferred supplier.

1285 - Bach and Magnetism completed. (Navigation skipped) I can now build Galleons and Frigates.

1305 - Metallurgy. Military Tradition is in sight, but I have Wall Street on the stove, which'd be a handy Smith's pre-build, so Economics first.

1345 - Got MT, researching ToG with a prebuild in the mega-gold-FP city. Samurai upgraded to cavalry. A fleet of Galleons is assembling with the cav, old elites, and cannon.

Egypt is a good trading partner and is the strongest civ - and certainly the toughest to attack. Greece is weak and very looking rather vunerable to Cavalry attack in their eastern island with a weak economy and two Hoplites per city. North of there, the French also have 3 weak cities. That leaves 3 or 4 each on their mainland for France and Greece to be finished off, which in turn gives a solid foothold on the Persian's continent - which when taken should easily account for two-thirds of the planet. Hence, starting from the weakest point of the weakest civ, the story of the future appears to have written itself. A small whining sensation in the back of my mind says something about getting all wonders, but that seems messy and not the destiny that Japan sees ahead.

1355 - Egypt discovers ToG, Japan trades for it and enters the Industrial Age.

[Cort Haus]

1365 - 6 Galleons of units unload in Eastern Greece, Greece has an entire Knight on the island!


1370 - Capture City with Cavalry
Took Mycenae with it's harbour on the first turn, then Knossus with both harbour and marketplace intact then next, and Heraklion on the third turn.

1385 - My deals with France expire in 5 turns. They have 3 cities on this island, 3 on their mainland, and one on the little island to the north. A galleon is dispatched with two cav and two muskets from Japan towards the icy island - looks a dead cert for oil later. Reinforcements of 4 muskets and 4 cav are sent to the newly occupied territories.

I decide to snuggle up to Persia and Egypt whilst launching these aggressions, and gift them 5gpt each. Greece takes peace, and I gift them a lux. They go from furious to merely annoyed.

1405 - Build Smiths, but Persians get Newton. Switch to Universal Suffrage.

1410 - Attack French, take 3 cities on this island by 1415. (see map)

1430 - Armies regroup onto 4 galleons heading for main French coast.

1435 - Discover Electricity.

1460 - French down to Paris - get 3rd GL - army.

1465 - Replaceable Parts.

1470 - 1st cannon shot on Paris reduces it from 7 to 6.

1475 - Take Paris with Sistine Chapel. French eliminated. (see map)

1495 - Attack Greeks.

1515 - Sent 15 Cavalry against Athens, and killed only 2 Hoplites. Cav hang around licking their wounds until the artillery arrive. 1st shot takes barracks, 2nd reduces to 7, 3rd reduces to 6. Here's to the power of bombard. Slow and unreliable it may be, especially pre-artillery, but knocking out barracks and reducing to below 6 is, in my experience, the only way to crack the tough nuts. The other point here is that the Greeks have a unit available to them in 4000BC which, in sufficent quantity, a little luck and perhaps a hill, is capable of holding out against anything short of a Tank that is unsupported by strong bombards.

1520 - Took Athens.

1530 - Finished Greeks, Persia & Egypt about to get Rep Parts.

Thus ended the Cavalry Wars of 1370-1530. When the time comes for the Persians to play at home to the Japanese, we'll be wearing Tanks

1600 - borders filled out for a nicer-looking map - see below

The military buildup for the showdown with Persia would take over 200 years whie enjoying a substantial tech lead. Before and during that time I followed my usual path through the industrial era, (Steam, Ind, Elec, RP) this time skipping Nationalism. Nationalism's less important when you have no rivals on your home continent, and of course there's nothing quite like Replaceable Parts. The best defensive unit and the best bombard you're likely to need if you're either a warmonger or diplowinner, and workers on speed without the diversions and delays of democracy. In the end you only need Nationalism for the Cops and Spooks that follow it (and you don't need those if you're smallish and peacefull).

Then its boring Medicine before the yummy Scientific Method, for which a pre-build is waiting to get ToE (you all know this) to give Atomic Theory & Electronics, a decisive tech lead, Hoover Dam, Sufficient Power, and the victory more or less of your choice (why am I typing this?). If the ToE prebuild is slow then research Atomic Theory first, and get the very pricey Radio (now worth the price in PTW, and the AI's love it - if they can afford it) with the wonder.

Then through the 'Oil Route' in the middle, finally choosing whether to get Tanks or Bombers first. PTW has beefed up Flight with the airstrip, and this is actually present in AU101, (like the radar) even though the Civil Defence (that must make things harder in late conquest) and Stock Exchange are unavailable.

Back from my standard Industrial tech-order to AU101 - I chose Flight to get airports and bombers all set up before the tanks arrived - not to mention a couple of airstrips north and south of Persia for the tanks to 'fly in'. Meanwhile I built Infantry & Artillery and shipped them and buckets of workers via the second continent to the third via the now substantial network of transports (no chaining, promise!). Destroyers guarded these and took up positions off the Persian Coast. I felt like Tommy Franks. Finally I was cranking out dozens of Tanks, which soon took up residency around the 'defences' I was building north and south of Persia. As the military juggernaught went over 350 units (keeping the old cav for anti-flip garrisons), and with only two not-very-rich civs left, money was not in abundance so I decided to sell Persia one more tech before attacking them. They should have been grateful, having their gpt debt cancelled after only 8-10 turns... **

(continued...)


** Note : Contrary to an earlier claim - this would actually be my second (though definitely the last) treaty-busting declaration - the other was the extremely necessary finishing off the Persians with Samurai - which set up for my Middle Age ramp-up. How about an AU conquest.domination game where you're not allowed to declare war at all?

[Cort Haus]

Part 4 - Modern Endgame

1752 - Capture City with Tanks

In Modern Era with 50+ tanks, 30 Arty, 20 Bombers, 25 Cav, 10 Destroyers, 6 Armies, 6 Fighters, 140 Inf plus some 40 workers and some crumbs totalling 386 units. Persia has 30 Cav and 85 Inf. Attacked Persia.

I wanted to contain them within Maginot lines north and south, seeing where and if they hurl their cav against it. The southern border was rather long, so rather than building all along it I left a gap then bombarded their side on the first turn of the war, pillaging it so that the best they could do was charge their cav through onto my killing fields - and it worked - they ignored it completely. I thought this was pretty neat - saving a lot of infantry and workers, but less neat was an oversight which left an unintended but embarrassing gap on the western end of the northern wall, through which poured 15 cav, 25-30 infantry and some loose change and who occupied 3 hills outside Paris - with the cav adjacent to the city and the infantry behind it.

Although my forces were split on two fronts, and with many units in armies and pillage-raiders within Persa, I had enough bombers and arty at hand to whittle down the cav then finish them with tanks. They'd used the rest of their cav on attacks elsewhere - including non-army pillage teams and especially against the airport on the northern border. The large infantry stack remained, so I surrounded it with tanks, infantry and fortresses to the north and placed lighter forces (inf + tank + cav) to the south (see graphic below - the Persian stack has the light-green disk). The airport had about 6 inf and 10 tanks in it, as well as 6-8 bombers.

On their turn they attacked a lighter stack to break out to the south and eventually made it but only about 5 of their infantry survived, and that was about it for the Persian army. Japanese bombers and armies covering explorers worked away at pillaging their extensive collection of resources (wheras in PTW armies can pillage themselves), as their newly-built attack waves degenerated from cavalry to infantry to immortals to archers.

Meanwhile, while the Persian forces broke themselves against my ok-not-too-perfect-but-got-the-job-done-eh defences, Japanese tank stacks with bomber and arty support munched through their cities from the south, finally freeing up the long defensive lines so that the inf could move up to defend captured cities. A lot of units were tied up quelling resistance and I was a bit worried about flipping despite 2:1 culture. I didn't want to raze. More of my tanks and infantry poured each turn through the airstrip until computers were discovered and the home cities could take a breather from tanks and build nice, quiet, research labs.

Early in the war came another leader. Yes! a Palace jump to this continent will give another core, while the home continent has a perfect FP and will hardly miss the old palace at all. Trouble is, I'm using the Palace as a pre-build for SETI, and anyway, I haven't taken the best city-site for a palace on this continent. So poor old Tojo sat there for turn after turn, during which it became harder to find a unit which was not elite to use - so frequent and numerous were the promotions.

Eventually computers were discovered and I got a good palace site, and I had the thrill of building a palace in the centre of Persia a turn or two before Domination Victory arrived in
1772, (map below) but not before getting another leader immediately after rushing the palace.

So that's it (I need a break now to play some Civ!) - my first AU course fully documented. I'm sorry about not attacking Cleo too but knowing how long I'd spent writing it all up I wanted to bring the game to a close. I had lots of fun, learned a lot, and hope my contribution to the AU has been worth it. What now? AU102? Or a recent one like the Celts so that I don't feel like 'so last year'? Or a 5CC? Or how about a big map on that whizzy 2.4GHz laptop I bought my girlfriend? So many civs, so little time ....

[badams52]

Originally posted by Cort Haus
So, I finally play AU101, and I'll post a full report of my game soon, (if anyone's still interested) but I just want to mention what happens on PTW:

Airstrips, outposts and radars are there, but not the units or buildings of PTW. I wonder if the startgame can be 'upgraded'?

Another difference is that the AI cities are, it seems, better defended in PTW than Civ 3.0, and it fights a bit better (more stacks, less dribbles - and archer/spear combos).

Glad to see you going back to the older AU courses, and thanks for the report.

Up through 104 they're all .sav files so I don't think upgrading to PTW would be possible, unless someone's written a utility to do so.

I think the scenarios (.bic files) are upgradable to PTW (.bix), but I wouldn't know how to do it so 104-201 could be upgraded. All the others have PTW scenarios that you can use.

Interesting to know what happens when you have a vanilla civ savegame loaded in ptw.

[Konquest02]

You can load the *.bic in the editor and then save it at a *.bix (at least I think so...)

As for the sav loaded in ptw, I think it just plays like vanilla Civ3... Not sure of this though...

[Arrian]

Good recap, Cort!

-Arrian

[Cort Haus]

Originally posted by Arrian
Good recap, Cort!

-Arrian

Cheers, Arrian - there's something about the process of writing these things down which both makes a game truly memorable and crystalises understanding of things. Documenting mistakes helps prevent repetition, recording success helps recall the best practice, and lets face it, a game of Civ can make a pretty decent story

[Dominae]

Originally posted by Cort Haus
there's something about the process of writing these things down which both makes a game truly memorable and crystalises understanding of things. Documenting mistakes helps prevent repetition, recording success helps recall the best practice, and lets face it, a game of Civ can make a pretty decent story

The above should be the standard plug for AU.

Nice one Cort Haus; I might just try it out myself.


Dominae

[Catt]

Originally posted by Dominae

Quote:

Originally posted by Cort Haus there's something about the process of writing these things down which both makes a game truly memorable and crystalises understanding of things. Documenting mistakes helps prevent repetition, recording success helps recall the best practice, and lets face it, a game of Civ can make a pretty decent story

The above should be the standard plug for AU.

Dominae

Amen to that

Catt

[badams52]

Originally posted by Cort Haus
Cheers, Arrian - there's something about the process of writing these things down which both makes a game truly memorable and crystalises understanding of things. Documenting mistakes helps prevent repetition, recording success helps recall the best practice, and lets face it, a game of Civ can make a pretty decent story

Words like this shouldn't be wasted here! Truly, cort you are a man who understands the usefullness behind AU.

Is there a place we can quote cort that makes it more available for others to see?

[Konquest02]

You can put it in AU history 101, sa a nice description of AU in your first post...

[Cort Haus]

Aw, guys, thanks for the comments . Maybe I could work that quote into a sig ...